Hangor Class Submarine Project | Updates & Discussions

[Readerdefence]

6 Brooke and 6 Garcia class frigates, plus 1 County class and 2 Leander, IIRC.


Ship - First Commissioned - Builder - PN service
Amazone 11-5-1974 Vosper 1993 to Pakistan as PNS Babur (Saab 9LV Mk3 FCS, Type 992 radar, Bofors 43X2 wire guided ASW-torpedoes, Bofors 43X2 wire guided ASW-torpedoes, 2x4 Harpoon and Phalanx)
Active 17-6-1977 Vosper 1994 to Pakistan as PNS Shahjahan (Saab 9LV Mk3 FCS, Type 992 radar, STWS-1 triple-tube launchers for US Mark 44 or Mark 46 torpedoes, Bofors 43X2 wire guided ASW-torpedoes, 2x4 Harpoon and Phalanx)
Ambuscade 5-9-1975 Yarrow 1993 to Pakistan as PNS Tariq (Saab 9LV Mk3 FCS, Signaal/Thales DA08 radar, Bofors 43X2 wire guided ASW-torpedoes, LY-60 SAM and 2x30mm, later replaced by Phalanx)
Arrow 29-7-1976 Yarrow 1994 to Pakistan as PNS Khaibar (Saab 9LV Mk3 FCS, Signaal/Thales DA08 radar, Bofors 43X2 wire guided ASW-torpedoes, LY-60 SAM and 2x30mm, later replaced by Phalanx)
Alacrity 2-7-1977 Yarrow 1994 to Pakistan as PNS Badr (Saab 9LV Mk3 FCS, Type 992 radar, STWS-1 triple-tube launchers for US Mark 44 or Mark 46 torpedoes, Bofors 43X2 wire guided ASW-torpedoes, 2x4 Harpoon and Phalanx)
Avenger 19-7-1978 Yarrow 1994 to Pakistan as PNS Tippu Sultan (Saab 9LV Mk3 FCS, Signaal/Thales DA08 radar, Bofors 43X2 wire guided ASW-torpedoes, LY-60 SAM and 2x30mm, later replaced by Phalanx)

PNS Badr & Babur decommissioned from PN.


IMHO a more capable and useful craft.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...raft-fac-55-about-to-sail-the-world-seas.html


If buying Russian, several options would be available including the naval versions of the latest Tor and Pantsir air defence vehicles. While different, both are capable systems, if with different specializations.

KBP's Pantsir-M is designed to take on a variety of targets flying at low or extremely low altitudes.Almaz-Antey's Tor-M designed to attack aircraft, helicopters, aerodynamic UAVs, guided missiles and other components of high precision weapons flying at medium, low and extremely low altitudes in adverse air and jamming environment.

Already in the older Klinok version (alka 3K95 Kinzhal) was designed to provide self-defense for surface ships against mass attacks from low-flying anti-ship missiles, other unmanned and manned assault aircraft and weapon, as well as attacks from ships including wing-in-ground effect craft.
http://www.almaz-antey.ru/en/catalogue/millitary_catalogue/1218/1222/1236/1239

Main drawback was the huge firecontrol radar 'complex'.

In the PN context a Naval Tor is probably a better choice than naval Pantsir, in view of its ability to deal with mass attack from multiple directions, esp. if fitted with a fixed four face firecontrol radar mast (which eliminates the drawback of having to aim the guidance radar in any one direction in particular, which is usefull when combined with VLS). But like I said, I would like to see some more specifics of any Chinese HQ17 variant offered, as this would likely differ from the Russian naval Tor.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...-pantsir-s1-for-surface-ship-air-defense.html
http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...ervice-with-russian-navy-before-year-end.html



Nice to have as last ditch "when we have no other choice" situations, but subs should preferably not put themselves in any situation where they actually can or have to engage MPAs or ASW-helicopters.... esp. if/when carrying nuclear armed missiles.

Hi penguin you have any info about the Indian scorpion submarines specifications
In terms of Sam like the one DcNS are advertising on their submarines
Will those Sam be attached to Indian subs ?
Thx

 

[Penguin]

Hi penguin you have any info about the Indian scorpion submarines specifications
In terms of Sam like the one DcNS are advertising on their submarines
Will those Sam be attached to Indian subs ?
Thx

I don't know (but doubt it)

 

[帅的一匹]

Who has opposed it and who is involved in the kickbacks ?

10 years for set up all the infrastructure and build up assembly line for Pakistan to churn out its domestic subs and TOT. Be patient my friend, there is no kickbacks. This is government to government deal, not a enterprise to government deal. Not a penny will be paid to PN top brass.

 

[Inception-06]

10 years for set up all the infrastructure and build up assembly line for Pakistan to churn out its domestic subs and TOT. Be patient my friend, there is no kickbacks. This is government to government deal, not a enterprise to government deal. Not a penny will be paid to PN top brass.

YOU ARE MOST WELCOME, thx for the reply !

 

[ali_raza]

10 years for set up all the infrastructure and build up assembly line for Pakistan to churn out its domestic subs and TOT. Be patient my friend, there is no kickbacks. This is government to government deal, not a enterprise to government deal. Not a penny will be paid to PN top brass.

what a relief dude.i hope everything is government to government

 

[帅的一匹]

what a relief dude.i hope everything is government to government

I hate corruption. You know China is running a national wide anti corruption campaign.

If there are any sign of kickback in this sub deal, I say cancel it.

You win contract by quality and price, not kickbacks. I strongly believe in it.

Rumors with malign intention spreading fast these days, we shall trust each other!!

I hope PN can disclose more detail and info regarding the deal.

 

[MULUBJA]

This submarine can also carry nuclear weapon as you read in this article


But Type 098 is a latest Strategic Nuclear Submarine

China’s qianzhan published an article to bare the mystery of China’s most advanced 098 strategic submarines.

The article says: Previously, Liaoning Vice Governor Tan Zuojung disclosed at a public occasion that PLA navy has completed development of its fourth-generation nuclear submarine.

Some experts believe that the information is quite reliable. However, there has been no public appearance of nor has the US ever detected China’s third-generation nuclear submarines.

Type 098 nuclear submarine adopts electromagnetic propulsion with zero noise, very high speed and instant great increase in power.

The above is Chinese media’s report on the submarine. At the same time US satellite has also found that China is building two new-type 098 fourth-generation strategic nuclear submarines.

It proves that China is developing effective second-strike capabilities. If one 098 can carry 12 submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) carrying 3 independently targetable warheads each, the two submarines under construction have effective second-strike capabilities of launching 108 nuclear warheads.

For nuclear security, a country shall have not only well hidden land-based mobile ICBMs but also SLBMs carried by its strategic nuclear submarines hidden underwater in Oceans as so far no country in the world is able to detect all the nuclear submarines of another country. China’s mobile ICBMs and SLBMs will constitute quite adequate nuclear deterrence.

In addition, China has built an underground base for its nuclear submarines to make it even more difficult for its enemy to detect and destroy its nuclear submarine.

Nuclear subs are good if you have to operate far away from your coast. Nuclear subs are noisy and easy to detect. AIP subs are good if you have to operate in vicinity of your coast line.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hopefully Chinese hackers got something out of the Scorpene leaks, so that Chinese Manufacturers can better understand and apply the latest french design elements to their AIP SSK Designs.

 

[Bratva]

4 x New Generation Submarines MoDP/PN has awarded contract for construction of 4 x AIP Submarines to Karachi Shipyard. M/s China Shipbuilding and Offshore Company will provide TDP, KoM and Technical Assistance for these Submarines under ToT arrangement. Extensive upgradation of yard and training will be imparted to KS&EW personnel. Steel cutting of first submarine will be held on 26 Oct 2020

MODP 2015-2016 Book

http://www.modp.gov.pk/modp/userfiles1/file/Year Book 2015-16 Part-II.pdf

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[Penguin]

4 x New Generation Submarines MoDP/PN has awarded contract for construction of 4 x AIP Submarines to Karachi Shipyard. M/s China Shipbuilding and Offshore Company will provide TDP, KoM and Technical Assistance for these Submarines under ToT arrangement. Extensive upgradation of yard and training will be imparted to KS&EW personnel. Steel cutting of first submarine will be held on 26 Oct 2020

MODP 2015-2016 Book

http://www.modp.gov.pk/modp/userfiles1/file/Year Book 2015-16 Part-II.pdf

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

That's probably the second set of four. The first four will come from China.

See also sections on:
Targets for 2016-2017, p10: indigenous design and construction of 01 midget submarine
Projects in the pipeline, p. 86: contruction of corvettes for PN
Ship Lift and Transfer System, p.93: Submarines construction and launching will also be possible for the first time in the country after completion of the project (NB: makes you wonder about the ToT by France to Pakistan in the context of the deal for the 3 Agosta 90Bs, doesn't it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agosta-class_submarine)

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hopefully Chinese hackers got something out of the Scorpene leaks, so that Chinese Manufacturers can better understand and apply the latest french design elements to their AIP SSK Designs.

Scorpene sub documents have already been hacked by Chinese.

 

[Hassan Guy]

So the pakistani subs will use german engines?

 

[Cool_Soldier]

I am expecting something really potent and customize according to our needs.

 

[帅的一匹]

So the pakistani subs will use german engines?

German MTU 396SE85 Diesel engine or its Chinese version.

All Chinese type 039 conventional sub engine is derivative of German MTU disel engine, we have indegenized it with German's help.

 

[salarsikander]

German MTU 396SE85 Diesel engine or its Chinese version.

All Chinese type 039 conventional sub engine is derivative of German MTU disel engine, we have indegenized it with German's help.

Chinese never shy away from truth. Most hardworking and humble people on earth