Greece, Armenia 'butchered' by Turkey in past, Greek president says

[dabong1]

How did a million unarmed, unaware, women and children and elderly betray the mighty Ottomans? They were the Citizens of the state that planned their race extermination. Armenian young were serving in military were disarmed and worked to death. Their community leaders were rounded up and beheaded. The world covered it and condemned Turkey and warned them to stop this race extermination or there will be concequences.

Please read the following, should give you a good idea as how it went down:

Armenian Genocide - Concentration camps and the extermination process - Total War Center Forums

The above site seems to give a different story from yours.

 

[amalakas]

mm do you have a reliable source? imo defencenet.gr is not a good one. Now think about it...
a Turkish sub detected in greek waters near Kea island which is next to mainland right ? Then why you didnt turn it into swiss cheese ?
do you really think that sub just ranaway like that ?
one more thing ... why none of internationa and local media talk about it except a nationalist website ?there must be a complaint, a note, an official statement...




whats the point? you think that your country is that weak? you say greece let our subs travel in your waters because they dont have balls to get us out and israel has ? you guys are poorer than i can imagine =)

defencenet.gr is a very reliable source as it has been proven to be truthful and reliable and proven so during its course.

Second, we do not turn submarines into 'swiss cheese' because it is quite clear it was a turkish submarine and the current standing orders are not to cause an incident. Do you understand ?

and no, we do not perceive our country as weak. We more than have enough military capability. That is not the point.

the point is that we do not want to respond to provocation with military means as this will only serve some political circles inside turkey, not greece.

What is the point of this? Turkey is NATO, if Greeks/Armenians do get a military edge on Turkey, Turkey's NATO allies will intervene and bomb these animals back to the stone age. Its a loose loose situation for them.

You sir must be the single simpleton in here, to refrain from using a stronger word.

let me put it to you in terms even you can understand.

GREECE IS ALSO A MEMBER OF NATO AND PART OF THE EU

do you get it now or do you want me to draw you a schematic ?

 

[amalakas]

Sarcasm off

Honestly idk why we keep doing fly overs over Greek islands maybe recon or patrol. That is something a air force official has to answer. I also don't have a clue as to why we sailed a obsolete B-Class corvette almost to Athens coastal waters. My guess would be this is actually not a governmental policy. Since previous administration the military did the same thing. It is probably some kind of doctrine they have.

The Greek president certainly has some animosity against Turkey though. He didn't have to make any statements like this but decided to call us barbarians. I am not sure as to what his motives were in saying that. Maybe to make Armenia happy.

To be honest, I don't know what motivated him to use such hard words.

this is completely opposite to the government's official stance, which is one of low tones and over the phone diplomacy (which i do not approve ofcourse, I like transparency)

nor do I approve of doctrines that send any ship no matter how old to sail in national waters of another country.

 

[damm1t]

defencenet.gr is a very reliable source as it has been proven to be truthful and reliable and proven so during its course.
Second, we do not turn submarines into 'swiss cheese' because it is quite clear it was a turkish submarine and the current standing orders are not to cause an incident. Do you understand ?
and no, we do not perceive our country as weak. We more than have enough military capability. That is not the point.

i didnt know you are military spokesman of greece..."we did so, we didnt wanted because, i ordered them ..." etc
you must be witnessed of all story, i think....

the point is that we do not want to respond to provocation with military means as this will only serve some political circles inside turkey, not greece. ?

another words " we dont have balls ".. its useless to talk anymore with you until you prove your claims..except a greece based nationalist website.. this news is stranger than sci-fi.

 

[amalakas]

i didnt know you are military spokesman of greece..."we did so, we didnt wanted because, i ordered them ..." etc
you must be witnessed of all story, i think....




another words " we dont have balls ".. its useless to talk anymore with you until you prove your claims..except a greece based nationalist website.. this news is stranger than sci-fi.

First of all, in other threads in the past I had stated that I was in the military , i.e. an ex military professional.

that is why , from habit I keep saying 'we' etc.
second, yes, I have been witness to many stories like this, I am not a funboy, I have seen things , with my own eyes, up close.. do you get it?

second, you question if we have the balls? why ? you want us to have the balls ?

you want us to shoot down some of THK's planes and maybe sink the next poor submarine that enters a region it knows nothing about and send a bunch of innocent sailors to the bottom of the sea so some general in ankara can pull a political game on your prime minister ??

Things have changed radically since the uncovering of the Ergenekon plan.

HAF planes escort and DO NOT intercept THK's planes anymore, HN ships merely observe TN ships when the sail through.

Instead we record and forward all incidents to brussels and NATO and refrain from situations that may potentially serve as a provocation to escalate to a mini war that will only serve turkey's political circles ..

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Out of just pure curiosity amalakas, how did things change since the uncovering of ergenekon. And where did you receive information about these events concerning the development of ergenekon and the their uncovering?

 

[damm1t]

yes, I have been witness to many stories like this, I am not a funboy, I have seen things , with my own eyes, up close.. do you get it?

oops.. you compromised yourself yorgo

second, you question if we have the balls? why ? you want us to have the balls ?
you want us to shoot down some of THK's planes and maybe sink the next poor submarine that enters a region it knows nothing about and send a bunch of innocent sailors to the bottom of the sea so some general in ankara can pull a political game on your prime minister ??

keep it up man .. you becoming a man now

Instead we record and forward all incidents to brussels and NATO and refrain from situations that may potentially serve as a provocation to escalate to a mini war that will only serve turkey's political circles ..

gimme a break...

 

[Azatavrear]

Battle of Sardarabad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this war occured when ottoman army already beaten by british,french,russian,italian forces.the date 1918.some armenian mention about this stupid battle as a victory.

after new mustafa kemal army pure turk(not like ottoman army)what happened to silly armenians lets remember

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sarikamish_(1920)
Battle of Oltu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kars_(1920)
Battle of Alexandropol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

after just 2 years new turkish army i cannot say even its a regular army beat up all the armenians in the same moment we were fighting with greek army plus we were busy with the invaders(britain,france,italy)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish-Armenian_War

You guys have excuse for everything.....and you forgot to say diarrhea. That killed more of Turkish soldiers than combat.


You must remember after Armenians stopped you dead cold on the battle of Sartarabad at another front General Andranik held your forces back for months and prevented you from reaching Baku and joining your Allies which led in part to your defeat in WWI.
He was ready to take Baku but was told to stand down and he would get Armenian lands back, he was betrayed by English.
When Turks finally made it to Baku they hanged everyone in sight in rage but too late, Turkey lost the war.

 

[Azatavrear]

Things have changed radically since the uncovering of the Ergenekon plan...

You mean them Kangaroo courts they run?

I believe their Generals volunteer to be on Ergenekon trials to get that double dip retirement benefits.
Are you aware that all current high ranking Turkish officers have been selected by Erdogan himself? Do you know that their Foreign Minister gives lectures to top brass in the War academy and just about every officer has a copy of his book?
Erdo and Davutoglu are not Islamists just because they pray. They are more secularists and nationalist then some Kemalist. Them fighting for power of government doesn't mean there is a devision when it comes to foreign afairs or sovereignty.

 

[karaislam]

u are talking about 1918.and i ve been talking about after great leader atatürk took control anatolia we ve give enough lesson for armenians.thats after 1919.cos of turks fear they let the soviet took control over them.and the story up to now they are satellite country of russians.

u ve won some battle in the most east place of ottoman country while we were fighting with arabs,greeks,brits,french,russians,italians in many front.economy finished.thousands of soldiers has died.allies was disarming the ottoman army.and u silly armenians used that correct time as ur favour.

 

[Azatavrear]

^^^Mustafa Kamal marely continued the failed extermination policy and only succeeded to buchure more unarmed civilians but failed the objective. Then he brought about the defeat of Islam in Turkey.

Armenian Genocide - Concentration camps and the extermination process - Total War Center Forums

The above site seems to give a different story from yours.

I suggest to all to steer clear of all Turkish and Armenian sites while performing their research on the subject.

 

[sid1508]

What a barbaric work by the Turks!
God bless Greece and Armenia.

 

[amalakas]

Out of just pure curiosity amalakas, how did things change since the uncovering of ergenekon. And where did you receive information about these events concerning the development of ergenekon and the their uncovering?

1. Things changed, because the highest echelons of the government is not willing to jeopardise Greece's fragile position by getting involved in a (small/short) conflict with a fellow NATO member.

The situation is bearable as currently as long as Greece does not heighten the tension, it is covered by NATO,EU .

The general approach is, that no turkish planes must be engaged, no ships intercepted. A dogfight may lead to an incident and noone in Greece can be sure who will be behind it.
The details of Ergenekon as have reached us, indicate that the provocators were willing to either shoot down a plane or sink a small ship / or cause damage to a larger one, even if the Greeks did not respond with fire.

by removing ourselves from the proximity , for the time being we avoid the possibility of playing into a trap.

It has been sometime since I left the service jigs, any information coming my way is through the known circles of friends who are still active.

oops.. you compromised yourself yorgo

my name is not yorgo, and I suggest you have more respect. it is always a good thing.

keep it up man .. you becoming a man now

my guess is i am far far far older than you are, so I suggest you finish school first before talking nonsense.

gimme a break...

[/quote]

I'll give you all the breaks in the world, it doesn't change I am right because i know what I am talking about, and you are wrong, because you have NO idea what you are talking about.
only funboy wet dreams.

 

[dabong1]

I suggest to all to steer clear of all Turkish and Armenian sites while performing their research on the subject.

Why?........would the two groups you mention not know more about the subject then a third party.

 

[Azatavrear]

Why?........would the two groups you mention not know more about the subject then a third party.

Because there is a lot of misinformation out there. For example the sites such as "the so called Genocide" or "Tall Tails" are Ankara sponsored anti Armenian propogonda machine run from Orange Country USA. I also ask to not use Armenian sources so as to show you that we are unbiased and we want you to shape your own views. I could point you to many Armenian sources but I don't want you to think I am tricking you into accepting only our side of the story.

You must know that many countries have recognized those events as Genocide and the main reason say like US does not officially recognize the Genocide is due to their stratigic alliance with Turkey. without their help and airbases the US cannot continue to operate in Iraq and Afghanistan. They couldn't even draw their troops back properly without Turkey's help. If you check you will find that just about every American President (including Bush) has called those events as Genocide but not at State department level.

Here is aother example of what I am talking about:

CIRCULATED TO THE KING AND WAR CABINET
[December 26, 1916]
ARMENIAN MASSACRES.
Report by an Eye-Witness, Lieutenant Sayied Ahmed Moukhtar Baas.
———————-

In April 1915 I was quartered at Erzeroum. An order came from Constantinople that Armenians inhabiting the frontier towns and village be deported to the interior. It was said then that this was only a precautional measure. I saw at that time large convoys of Armenians go through Erzeroum. They were mostly old men, women and children. Some of the able-bodied men had been recruited in the Turkish Army and many had fled to Russia. The massacres had not begun yet. In May 1915 I was transferred to Trebizond. In July an order came to deport to the interior all the Armenians in the Vilayet of Trebizond. Being a member of the Court Martial I knew that deportations meant massacres.

The Armenian Bishop of Trebizond was ordered to proceed under escort to Erzeroum to answer for charges trumped up against him. But instead of Erzeroum he was taken to Baipurt and from there to Gumush-Khana. The Governor of the latter place was then Colonel Abdul-Kadar Aintabli of the General Staff. He is famous for his atrocities against the Armenians. He had the Bishop murdered at night. The Bishop of Erzeroum was also murdered at Gumush-Khana.

Besides the deportation order referred to above an Imperial "Iradeh" was issued ordering that all deserters when caught, should be shot without trial. The secret order read "Armenians" in lieu of "deserters". The Sultan's "Iradeh" was accompanied by a "fatwa" from Sheikh-ul-Islam stating that the Armenians had shed Moslem blood and their killing was lawful. Then the deportations started. The children were kept back at first. The Government opened up a school for the grown up children and the American Consul of Trebizond instituted an asylum for the infants. When the first batches of Armenians arrived at Gumush-Khana all able-bodied men were sorted out with the excuse that they were going to be given work. The women and children were sent ahead under escort with the assurance by the Turkish authorities that their final destination was Mosul and that no harm will befall them. The men kept behind, were taken out of town in batches of 15 and 20, lined up on the edge of ditches prepared beforehand, shot and thrown into the ditches. Hundreds of men were shot every day in a similar manner. The women and children were attacked on their way by the ("Shotas") the armed bands organised by the Turkish Government who attacked them and seized a certain number. After plundering and committing the most dastardly outrages on the women and children they massacred them in cold blood. These attacks were a daily occurrence until every woman and child had been got rid of. The military escorts had strict orders not to interfere with the "Shotas".

The children that the Government had taken in charge were also deported and massacred.

The infants in the care of the American Consul of Trebizond were taken away with the pretext that they were going to be sent to Sivas where an asylum had been prepared for them. They were taken out to sea in little boats. At some distance out they were stabbed to death, put in sacks and thrown into the sea. A few days later some of their little bodies were washed up on the shore at Trebizond.

In July 1915 I was ordered to accompany a convoy of deported Armenians. It was the last batch from Trebizond. There were in the convoy 120 men, 700 children and about 400 women. From Trebizond I took them to Gumish-Khana. Here the 120 men were taken away, and, as I was informed later, they were all killed. At Gumish-Khana I was ordered to take the women and children to Erzinjian. On the way I saw thousands of bodies of Armenians unburied. Several bands of "Shotas" met us on the way and wanted me to hand over to them women and children. But I persistently refused. I did leave on the way about 300 children with Moslem families who were willing to take care of them and educate them. The "Mutessarrif" of Erzinjian ordered me to proceed with the convoy to Kamack. At the latter place the authorities refused to take charge of the women and children. I fell ill and wanted to go back, but I was told that as long as the Armenians in my charge were alive I would be sent from one place to the other. However I managed to include my batch with the deported Armenians that had come from Erzeroum. In charge of the latter was a colleague of mine Mohamed Effendi from the Gendarmerie. He told me afterwards that after leaving Kamach they came to a valley where the Euphrates ran. A band of Shotas sprang out and stopped the convoy. They ordered the escort to keep away and then shot every one of the Armenians and threw them in the river.

At Trebizond the ******* were warned that if they sheltered Armenians they would be liable to the death penalty.

Government officials at Trebizond picked up some of the prettiest Armenian women of the best families. After committing the worst outrages on them they had them killed.

Cases of rape of women and girls even publicly are very numerous. They were systematically murdered after the outrage.

The Armenians deported from Erzeroum started with their cattle and whatever possessions they could carry. When they reached Erzinjian they became suspicious seeing that all the Armenians had already been deported. The Vali of Erzeroum allayed their fears and assured them most solemnly that no harm would befall them. He told them that the first convoy should leave for Kamach, the others remaining at Erzeroum until they received word from their friends informing of their safe arrival to destination. And so it happened. Word came that the first batch had arrived safely at Kamach, which was true enough. But the men were kept at Kamach and shot, and the women were massacred by the Shotas after leaving that town.

The Turkish officials in charge of the deportation and extermination of the Armenians were: At Erzeroum, Bihas Eddin Shaker Bey; At Trebizond; Naiil Bey, Tewfik Bey Monastirly, Colonel of Gendarmerie, The Commissioner of Police; At Kamach; The member of Parliament for Erzinjian. The Shotas headquarters were also at Kamach. Their chief was the Kurd Murzabey who boasted that he alone had killed 70,000 Armenians. Afterwards he was thought to be dangerous by the Turks and thrown into prison charged with having hit a gendarme. He was eventually executed in secret.

But you have to do it, if I give it to you it would look biased because I am Armenian I Turks will claim I am lieing.