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Greece, Armenia 'butchered' by Turkey in past, Greek president says

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hahaha dont personalize that ;) it was my own thought just like the others have their own. Anyway im proud to be barberian with you guys greeks, rums, armenians, kurds.. you know what they say...speak the way that they can understand.. your hatred will never be ended, never will be friends with us, so sit there and be a good boy

You show your true colors Turk.

BTW, I don't agree with the Greek President.....Turks give Barbarians a bad name.
 
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oh come on, and you are calling me opportunistic , talk about the understatement of the century.

you were getting along fine there, until you started saying about the enosis thing. .. that is where your true colours shined through..

anywho, I don't like to avoid issues, and let me tell you.. the enosis things you turkish brute force funboys so much love to use as an excuse, was, is and will forever be a laughable thing for 99% of the greek population with the exception of some idiot nationalists.

the fact that you keep using it, means you believe in it more than any greek ever did.

oh, and let me not forget one thing. Just because you think you got an excuse to do something, it doesn't mean the excuse is real.

think about it..... friend

yes,you behaved opportunistic there..

well,i agree with the majority of the greeks,enosis is a laughable thing but it doesnt change the fact that people died for it.

the thing is mi amigo,you cant be an honest and civilized person just because you cursed turkish history.

your color was all crystal clear btw..full of narrow-minded,one-sided ideas you have:rolleyes:
 
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You show your true colors Turk.

BTW, I don't agree with the Greek President.....Turks give Barbarians a bad name.

You don't have to be aggressive like that. There is no need for that.

I don't know why you have this opinion, but I do believe you should tone it down a bit.

I only reacted like this to this particular friend because he clearly does not fully understand how much he damages his country's image.
 
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yes,you behaved opportunistic there..

well,i agree with the majority of the greeks,enosis is a laughable thing but it doesnt change the fact that people died for it.

the thing is mi amigo,you cant be an honest and civilized person just because you cursed turkish history.

your color was all crystal clear btw..full of narrow-minded,one-sided ideas you have:rolleyes:

when did you have a chance to see my true colours ?
you are accusing me of narrow-mindedness when it is you who brings laughable and questionable things like the enosis propaganda on the table?
The fact mi amigo !!! that people died for it, doesn't mean it was true.

people died over the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, that does not mean they ever existed .... get my point ....amigo ?????
 
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when did you have a chance to see my true colours ?
you are accusing me of narrow-mindedness when it is you who brings laughable and questionable things like the enosis propaganda on the table?
The fact mi amigo !!! that people died for it, doesn't mean it was true.

people died over the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, that does not mean they ever existed .... get my point ....amigo ?????

im happy that you enjoyed the amigo thing.

i got your point but you didnt get mine.enosis couldnt be accomplished and the idea of it was stupid for many people..but im saying that there were people believed in this idea and they got their act for it..why did they kill turkish cypriots?
 
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..why did they kill turkish cypriots?

If you are asking me, I'll tell you that it saddens me greatly that this happened.
I don't count how many died, even if one had died it would still have been tragic.

you see I don't approve of death and destruction.

What I would say however, is that in Greece we have our doubts as to who really did what and when.

You were not there really were you? neither was I,

how do you know for example that the killings were not done by say -CIA- to start the war ? ?

you don't know that and I don't know that, all I know is what followed
 
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Killing we all know what happened but the question the greeks-armenians never answer is that after living hundreds of years under the ottoman why did the there govt turn against the greeks-armenians?

How did a million unarmed, unaware, women and children and elderly betray the mighty Ottomans? They were the Citizens of the state that planned their race extermination. Armenian young were serving in military were disarmed and worked to death. Their community leaders were rounded up and beheaded. The world covered it and condemned Turkey and warned them to stop this race extermination or there will be concequences.

Please read the following, should give you a good idea as how it went down:



The History

Armenians are an ancient Anatolian people originating from the Caucasus with a history that dates back more than 5,000 years. Many Biblical scholars believe Armenia to be the setting for the Garden of Eden, and the Bible states that Noah's Ark landed in the "mountains of Ararat", which were in the middle of the Armenian Highland at the time. According to legend, Haik, the founding father for whom native Armenians named their country, is said to be the great, great grandson of Noah himself. Haik established the first Armenian nation in 2492 BC by defeating the Babylonian king Bel. In 301 AD, Armenia became the first state in the world to adopt Christianity as its official state religion. Over the course of the next few centuries, Romans, Assyrians, Persians and the likes would invade Armenia both for political, as well as religious reasons. The last of these conquests would turn out to be the most significant and tragic in Armenian history:

The Islamic Ottoman Turks.

The Ottoman Turks were successors to the Seljuk Turks that had migrated to the Anatolian region from Central Asia around the 11th Century AD. They had paved the way for the Ottomans to move in and conquer Constantinople in 1453, declaring it the capital for their new Empire. Subsequently, Armenia was absorbed into the Ottoman Empire in the 15th century. At its height, the Empire encompassed all of Anatolia, the vast majority of the Middle East, large portions of the most northern and northeastern tips of South Africa, and almost all of southeastern Europe. The Turk’s original Mongolian culture and ancestry slowly dissolved and diluted over the course of their 600 year rein as they absorbed and assimilated to the cultures of these conquered territories, especially those of the Anatolian region.

As with all Christian minorities within the Ottoman Empire, Armenians were allowed their own religious community in the millet system. Within this system, they could rule themselves so long as they followed the dhimmi, or non-Muslim laws. While these laws fluctuated as rulers changed hands throughout the years, for the most part, they remained quite bigoted towards the non-Muslim minorities. Christians were not allowed to own horses (the only means of transportation at the time), build churches near Mosques, bare arms, vote, testify against Muslims in court, or serve in the military, for which, they were obligated to pay an exemption tax. This was on top of paying higher taxes than the Muslims to begin with, and those taxes steadily increasing over the years as the empire struggled financially towards the end. In short, the Christian minorities were considered second-class citizens whose treatment was similar to what African Americans endured in the U.S. prior to the civil rights movement. They weren’t massacred en mass every other day, but it was clear that they were considered to be beneath their Muslim rulers, and were commonly the victim of hate crimes. Yet in spite of these discriminatory policies, the Armenians actually did quite well under this system. For centuries, they prospered as successful businessmen and moneylenders, and held prestigious positions both within their communities, as well as in government, quickly becoming the wealthiest ethnic group within the Ottoman Empire. And unlike most of the other Christian millets, the Armenians resisted revolting against their oppressors for the better part of the Ottoman reign, leading the Ottomans to label them as millet-i-sadika, or the "loyal millet".


The Build-Up

While the Christians lamented over their oppression under Ottoman rule, it would pale in comparison to the lack of compassion and intolerance Sultan Abdul Hamid II would show when he took over the empire in 1876. Sultan Hamid II already had a great dislike for Christians due to their many, and often times violent attempts to secede from the empire in the past. One of his first lines of action he took when he gained control was to suspend the constitution, leaving him to rule the empire in whatever fashion he best saw fit. His disdain for the Christians only grew after the Ottomans lost the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-1878, which led to the independence of Romania, Serbia, and Montenegro, autonomy for Bulgaria, reforms in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and ceded parts of Armenia to Russia. Between the significant and embarrassing loss of territory, and the additional burden of paying a colossal remuneration to Russia on an already financially struggling state, the Empire was quickly diminishing. This only served to shorten Hamid’s fuse, which in turn led to many slaughters against all Christian subjects, quickly earning Hamid nicknames such as “the Bloody Sultan”.

The 1890’s became an increasingly violent time as a struggle ensued between the Armenians, who were no longer taking their mistreatment sitting down, and Sultan Hamid, who struggled to show he was still in control. The Henchag (1887) and Dashnag (1890) political parties were formed to create an organized voice for the Armenians in their demands for equality, and autonomous land. They initially set forth upon their mission by peaceful means, like holding protests against their mistreatment in Constantinople, or refusing to pay the exorbitant taxes in certain Armenian villages. But the Sultan did not take kindly to this kind of objection to his rule, especially by a loathed Christian minority, leading him to often responded with brutality. As these peaceful protests were met with violence, and diplomatic pleas to the outside for help yielded no results, small pockets of Armenian revolutionaries took a much more aggressive stance. Amidst smaller skirmishes, there were three major uprisings led by these revolutionaries, which included a take-over of an Ottoman bank in 1896, and ended in the murder of over 100 diplomats and officials, as well as some Turkish and Kurdish citizens. Unfortunately, these small-scale revolutionary groups did not have the organization or firepower to make much of an impact, and only served to infuriate Hamid. Sighting such rebellious incidences as cause for action, Hamid ordered a wave of mass slaughters against several Armenian villages from 1894 - 1896 in what is known as the “Hamidian Massacres”. It is estimated that anywhere from 80,000 to 300,000 Armenians were killed in the last decade of the 19th Century.

The turbulent close to the last century left the Armenians in despair. Confused and angry, the nationalist notion that had swept over the other Christian minorities much earlier was quickly growing support amongst the Armenians. But there was a new hope on the horizon. A group of visionaries, the Young Turks, were also growing increasingly dissatisfied with Hamid’s rule of the Empire. They believed the only route to progress was through reinstating the constitution and parliament that the Sultan had ceased. During the opening years of the 20th century, they solicited the help of the Christians and xxxs by enticing them with promises of equal rights, and a secular regime if they were to obtain control. Seeing that they shared the same goal, the Dashnag party put their suspicions aside, and agreed to aid the Young Turks. In June of 1908, they succeeded in a bloodless coup, absolving the Sultan of all his authority. The Christians rejoiced as the Young Turks made good on their word by immediately reinstating the parliament and constitution as promised, and giving the Christians certain rights, like being allowed to serve in the military, and having a political voice. Even the Dashnag party had a place within the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), the now governing body. Things finally appeared to be looking up for the minorities, and the rebellions settled down.

However, due to the Young Turks lack of organization, inability to form a post-election government, and loosing Bulgaria within their first year of power, this new liberal body was not finding much support amongst its more fundamentalist Muslim citizens. Meanwhile, Sultan Hamid’s promises of returning to a rule of religion if put back in power kept many in his favor, enough so to inspire an attempted countercoup in 1909. On April 13th (referred to as the “31 March Incident” due to the Julian calendar used by the Ottomans at the time), Sultan Abdul Hamid II momentarily regained power as a military revolt took place in Istanbul. The revolt only lasted 10 days, after which, the Young Turks took back control and exiled the Sultan for good, giving his position to his brother, Mehmed V. The countercoup was a failure. Unfortunately, the Sultan’s brief reclaim of power afforded the Ottoman nationalists enough time to spark a mass killing spree of Armenians in the province of Adana. The angry Muslim mobs blamed the Armenians for the first coup of the Sultan, and rumors of a possible uprising or revolt to combat the countercoup only served to anger them more. The Armenians were also targeted due to their relative wealth in a time of financial hardship for most Turks. Uncontrollable violence quickly spread to other provinces. By the time they regained control, the Young Turks had great difficulty stopping the events, as the soldiers sent out by the military to control the areas either reacted slowly, allowed what was going on to continue, or even joined in on the killings themselves. It took a month for order to be restored, but not before 15,000 – 20,000 Armenians had been killed in what is known as the “Adana massacre”. Disgusted by the actions of these nationalists, the subsequent trials ordered by the Young Turks in July of 1909 ended in the execution of 124 Muslims for their instigation, and/or involvement in the massacres.

The state of the empire continued to decline under the rule of the CUP. The initiation of the 1st Balkan War saw the Ottomans loose more military battles and land in 1912, striking yet another massive blow to the pride of this once almighty Empire. As thousands of Muslim refugees poured into Istanbul from the lost territories with tales of brutality committed against them by the Christian, animosity and tension was at an all-time high. The radical wing of the Young Turks was outraged, and felt that a mixed religious and cultural population was poisoning the empire from the inside, ruining any attempts to re-strengthen it. The massive losses the Ottoman Empire was suffering during the Balkan Wars gave this wing the support they needed to make their move. In January of 1913, following the assassination of the Minister of War, Nazim Pasha, the Liberal Union secularist wing of the Young Turks was overthrown. Now spearheaded by the triumvirate of Mehmed Talat Pasha (Minister of the Interior), Ismail Enver Pasha (Minister of Defense), and Ahmed Cemal Pasha (Minister of the Navy/Marine), the CUP quickly passed a law making themselves the only legal political party in the Ottoman Empire. Despite this new takeover, the Turks still lost the 1st Balkan War in May of 1913. Infuriated with the Christians, they sought to carry out their main objective of creating a pan-Turkic nation under religious rule, and expanding the empire along the way. The biggest obstacle standing in the way of this objective was the Armenians, but the Young Turks had a plan to rid themselves of “the Armenian question”. The War Office started a propaganda campaign in early 1914 declaring the Armenians to be a threat to the state in an attempt to gain support for what would come later. To aid them in their plan, they would enlist the help of the Germans, whom they had formed an alliance with earlier when it was agreed upon by Sultan Hamid II that the “Silk Road” (Orient Express) would be extended through Baghdad, and on up to Germany, allowing for easy access to oil. In exchange, the Germans would help remove the Armenian population from that area so that they could achieve this goal.

In August of 1914, the German Empire declared war on the Russian Empire, and WWI was under way. The Ottomans entered the war in November, quickly making their initial move to regain the caucuses. They struck Russia at the boarder in an attempt to take the city of Baku. Much like in the Balkan War, their strategic and numerical disadvantages left them brutally defeated, costing them nearly 90% of their 3rd army. Their frustrations culminated into the perfect opportunity to solidify their campaign against their most hated Christian subjects. The CUP blamed the Armenians for their losses, citing that Armenians had joined and aided the Russian troops in attacking their army. In reality, there were approximately 6,000 troops out of the 120,000 members of the advancing Russian army who were of Armenian decent, the vast majority of which were Russian citizens fulfilling their duties. Only a very small fraction of those troops had defected from the Ottoman side. Never the less, amidst the paranoia that more defectors would take this opportunity to join their “Christian Orthodox brothers”, the CUP felt they were not justified in seeing their burning desire for a pan-Turkic nation through. They officially declared Armenians traitors, and enemies of the state. Initially disguising their true intentions, so as to minimize resistance from Turks and Armenians alike, they stated that Armenians were to be “relocated” out of the war zones at once, both for their own protection, and to eliminate the risk of more defectors. Once the relocations were under way, they could exercise their true, intended solution to “the Armenian question”. And while the world was preoccupied with WWI, they were afforded the perfect opportunity to see their plans through.
 
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Please read the following, should give you a good idea as how it went down:

I'm sorry, this reads like formulaic propaganda, not historical narrative. The overly emotional language betrays the writer's agenda and brings into doubt the objectivity of the article.

Anyone who believes this crap word-for-word is either 15 years old or mentally challanged.
 
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I'm sorry, this reads like formulaic propaganda, not historical narrative. The overly emotional language betrays the writer's agenda and brings into doubt the objectivity of the article.

Anyone who believes this crap word-for-word is either 15 years old or mentally challanged.


and you are not biassed ? History is different if you read on either side of the fence you should know that.

but the truth is never in the middle.. there is a truth. you just need to want to find it ...
 
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You show your true colors Turk.

BTW, I don't agree with the Greek President.....Turks give Barbarians a bad name.

at least i have a color and i love it.. better than being chameleon huh ?!
and please dont pretend you are a turk-loving armenian, you dont look even funny. Its against your DNA.. your brainwashing starts in the schools, they teach you that Turkey is the biggest threat of armenians.. And after these all brainwash sessions the world seems a lit bit different to you; enemy is turkey, Turkey's enemies are your friends..
You guys still think that mount AĞRI belongs to you ? =)

Greece, Armenia 'butchered' by Turkey in past, Greek president says
ARMENIAN CHILDREN ARE SYSTEMATICALLY BRAINWASHED
 
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I'm sorry, this reads like formulaic propaganda, not historical narrative. The overly emotional language betrays the writer's agenda and brings into doubt the objectivity of the article.

Anyone who believes this crap word-for-word is either 15 years old or mentally challanged.

It is not propegonda, it is simplified version written by an Armenian friend who has done his own research however it makes a good summary for the uninformed. I can provide you with wealth of none Armenian information including historical archives and letters from the US ambassador to Ottomans at the time but what is the use...You guys mind is made up.

I am not here to prove to anyone about historical realities. You guys need to be objective and unbiased about this if you really care about the truth which I doubt.
It is also obvious that Turkish Government and its brainwashed people cannot handle the truth. I love those Anti-Armenian CDs they pass around in preschools.

You can believe what you want, that we Armenians were culturleess gypsies who came to Anatolia and lived as first class citizens but then commited Genocide on Turks, and they, out of their kindness deported us for our own safety. We sided with Russians, Greeks, English, aliens.....I don't care, believe what ever you want so you can live with yourself.

The eyes of my Grandfather did not lie who ended up escorting screaming civilians through the mountains at the age of 15 (too young to join his brother to defend the villages from Turks) bare footed with no food and water with a rifle that was taller than him (I still have it) for 3 months while taking pope shots from Turks and Kurdish bandits and finally making it to Bagdad and if it wasn't for American airdrops on their location they would have never made it through the mountains.

For you guys this is a joke, a lie, an attempt to cash out. Like I said believe what you want, I don't care.
 
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It is not propegonda, it is simplified version written by an Armenian friend who has done his own research however it makes a good summary for the uninformed. they pass around in preschools.

and you post it as a reliable source ? funny ..
i could post dozens of historic researchs which has capable of disproof so-called armenian thesis but i wont.. just wasting time as i said you guys just desperate ...
 
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ohhh.. and what is that place in the world you are talking about ?

care to point it out ?

You should act civil instead of calling people names to bolster yourself in the eyes of other visiting countries. Then again it is Greece we are talking about here.

I expect more friendly fly overs and naval visits in the future. Keep lodging your complaints to the U.N.
 
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and you are not biassed ? History is different if you read on either side of the fence you should know that.

but the truth is never in the middle.. there is a truth. you just need to want to find it ...

Actually, the truth is almost always in the middle.

Even in the extreme case of the Nazi Holocaust, there were prominent Jewish individuals who helped the Nazis against their own people, the gypsies, the Poles, etc.

It is not propegonda, it is simplified version written by an Armenian friend who has done his own research

There you go. It is one version of events. The Turks have a different version.

Nobody's denying that Armenians suffered at the hands of the Turks. What is at issue is how much complicity there was on the part of militant Armenian nationalists to backstab their Turkish compatriots during the Russian war.

Did they turn upon unarmed Turkish civilians to conduct their own masssacres? The Turks claim so.

I sympathize with your own personal story and no one is excusing killing. It's a matter of acknowledging that the other side also has legitimate grievances.
 
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