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Germany official report labels Turkey a Terror State

Okay good, I wish you the best of luck in that endeavor. Send me postcards when locals and migrants start butchering each other, I could always use a laugh

do they butcher each other in turkey?

In all honesty, a deal should be beneficial for both sides, right?

And you do understand why our interests are a priority for me?

Its an easy calculation.

If we have a deal with Turkey:

+ we dont have to bother with the problem of 1.5 million refugees trying to enter

- we place our security into anotehr ones hand
- we depend on the good will of turkey
- we open up for 70 million turks without any control
- we get dependend on a dictator who will use evrything to blackmail us

If we bust the deal with turkey:

+ we have full security in our own hands
+ we are political independend and cant get blackmailed
+ we have full control over who enters and who not

- we have to deal with the refugees ourself and cost with defensive fences, weapons and so on

With all due respect but thats how i see it and thats why i and my party and evry conservative in europe wants this farce to end.
 
Turkey should officially label Germany and the US as terrorist states for having financial and military links with PKK, PYD and FETO terrorists.
Good Relations with Europe & US is in Turkey's favour for economy. 5 out of Top 6 destination for Turkish Goods export are Europe/America including Germany (~10%) ,Italy (~5%).
 
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do they butcher each other in turkey?

In all honesty, a deal should be beneficial for both sides, right?

And you do understand why our interests are a priority for me?

Its an easy calculation.

If we have a deal with Turkey:

+ we dont have to bother with the problem of 1.5 million refugees trying to enter

- we place our security into anotehr ones hand
- we depend on the good will of turkey
- we open up for 70 million turks without any control
- we get dependend on a dictator who will use evrything to blackmail us

If we bust the deal with turkey:

+ we have full security in our own hands
+ we are political independend and cant get blackmailed
+ we have full control over who enters and who not

- we have to deal with the refugees ourself and cost with defensive fences, weapons and so on

With all due respect but thats how i see it and thats why i and my party and evry conservative in europe wants this farce to end.
Pretty funny calculations. First off no Turks couldn't enter and stay as long as they want with that visa. Second Erdogan isn't a dictator (he happened to be elected with 52% of the public vote and his recent approval rating is 70%). There is an amount of goodwill in every deal between countries, Turkey has been showing more than necessary goodwill but it's the EU that is trying to play games and abuse our goodwill. The fact that Europeans were desperate and panicky enough to sign this deal isn't our problem, once you sign a deal you stand by it (I know this hard for Italians to understand as having a mentality to change sides whenever it benefits you might make the concept of honoring your promises and allegiances hard to comprehend). Turkey isn't blackmailing, simply saying the deal won't continue if the EU doesn't kee it's end of the agreement, that's pretty straightforward. Like it or not the EU has signed a deal with Turkey and is bound to certain obligations because of it. As with every deal if the obigations aren't fulfilled then there will be consequences..good morning after supper
 
Pretty funny calculations. First off no Turks couldn't enter and stay as long as they want with that visa. Second Erdogan isn't a dictator (he happened to be elected with 52% of the public vote and his recent approval rating is 70%). There is an amount of goodwill in every deal between countries, Turkey has been showing more than necessary goodwill but it's the EU that is trying to play games and abuse our goodwill. The fact that Europeans were desperate and panicky enough to sign this deal isn't out problem, once you sign a deal you stand by it (I know this hard for Italians to understand as having a mentality to change sides whenever it benefits you might make the concept of honoring your promises and allegiances hard to comprehend). Turkey isn't blackmailing, simply saying the deal won't continue if the EU doesn't kee it's end of the agreement, that's pretty straightforward. Like it or not the EU has signed a deal with Turkey and is bound to certain obligations because of it. As with every deal if the obigations aren't fulfilled then there will be consequences..good morning after supper

Good you found back to a more calm answer.

1. thats just papers. Who will control who comes in and stays as long as what? There is much pressure in turkey. We fear millions will try to come here. This risk is there. And im not willing to take it.

2. The deal is dead and you see it. It was done by Merkel without any consultation. All eastern european nations, spain, portugal, austria, italy and even france are against it. Thats the reason why its now falling apart. The large majority of european people is against this deal. Politicians cant sell it to the people.

We are a democracy too, and you may agree no italian government should make deals against the will of its people.

3. i want our security in my own hands. Thats understandable, isn´t it?
 
Good you found back to a more calm answer.

1. thats just papers. Who will control who comes in and stays as long as what? There is much pressure in turkey. We fear millions will try to come here. This risk is there. And im not willing to take it.

2. The deal is dead and you see it. It was done by Merkel without any consultation. All eastern european nations, spain, portugal, austria, italy and even france are against it. Thats the reason why its now falling apart. The large majority of european people is against this deal. Politicians cant sell it to the people.

We are a democracy too, and you may agree no italian government should make deals against the will of its people.

3. i want our security in my own hands. Thats understandable, isn´t it?
I get that many EU countries are against it. But the EU still signed, it doesn't matter if Merkel signed it or the tooth fairy did...the EU signed a deal. And if countries are against it then they should've made their objections louder and clearer instead of bending spine infront of Berlin. As I said again, all of that is the EUs internal squabbling and panicking which isn't our problem. I get that the Italian government is responsible to its people, it's seems everyone does except them since they didn't stop this deal. Those are your problems to solve...but not at our expense when we fulfill the deal to its last comma and full stop. Now obviously if the deal fails I won't mind much too, will be fun to watch eastern euro countries fight it out with Brussels while Rome and Paris wrestle with Berlin. Good times ahead
 
I get that many EU countries are against it. But the EU still signed, it doesn't matter if Merkel signed it or the tooth fairy did...the EU signed a deal. And if countries are against it then they should've made their objections louder and clearer instead of bending spine infront of Berlin. As I said again, all of that is the EUs internal squabbling and panicking which isn't our problem. I get that the Italian government is responsible to its people, it's seems everyone does except them since they didn't stop this deal. Those are your problems to solve...but not at our expense when we fulfill the deal to its last comma and full stop. Now obviously if the deal fails I won't mind much too, will be fun to watch eastern euro countries fight it out with Brussels while Rome and Paris wrestle with Berlin. Good times ahead

not your problem. We do evrything in our power to break this deal.

I´m a man my friend. I dont olace the security of me, my family, my friends and nation into someone else hands. If you understand this, you will understand why we will destroy this deal. Merkel has no honor, no family nothing. She stands for nothing. Now as her own people act against her she turns around 180°

Beside that i know we must do what must be done.

It can be that we show a nice smile and talk nice and let turkey do the dirty work. We must do it ourself. This deal is a farce on evry level and an insult for evryone.
 
not your problem. We do evrything in our power to break this deal.

I´m a man my friend. I dont olace the security of me, my family, my friends and nation into someone else hands. If you understand this, you will understand why we will destroy this deal. Merkel has no honor, no family nothing. She stands for nothing. Now as her own people act against her she turns around 180°

Beside that i know we must do what must be done.

It can be that we show a nice smile and talk nice and let turkey do the dirty work. We must do it ourself. This deal is a farce on evry level and an insult for evryone.
If only enough of you would show your self professed manhood towards Berlin then perhaps we wouldn't be having this debate right now. Best of luck!
 
If only enough of you would show your self professed manhood towards Berlin then perhaps we wouldn't be having this debate right now. Best of luck!

We do. Thats why this chaos exist. Merkel signed a deal. The others boycott it. Why you think all this happenes? That Visa deal is stuck, payment doesnt come ect?

we all need luck. your country as well.

you know its strange we dont understsnd each other. Your people and ours. The current situation is absurd.
 
i dont care about the shithole you call your country. I care for our interests and i believe a complete break with turkey is in our interests.



i dont care for them. I dont care what they saw in syria. I care for my people. If it means to block those out, so be it. I would also be ok with lethal force if needed. How does their existence have any influence on our life? They would kill us if tables would be turned. I care for my own people and nothing else.

As for your egyptian artifacts. If you want them, come and try to get them. Dont bother me with your weakness. If your nation is to weak to get things back it should not cry around.



we dont want any deal with turkey.

in case you didnt notice, we dont negotiate anymore. EU already said in current state turkey is unable to get visa free travel. i rather have to deal with refugees than letting turks without control in.



You should care about what they saw. if it was YOU in their shoes you wouldn't be so much of a psychotic sociopath. How would you feel if Italy had a civil war and half the population had to escape? How would you feel if it was the Syrian who was calling for lethal force on you? No they would not kill you if the table were turned. I only care about the slave state that was Rome and could give less of a crap about the Roman people in modern times if you were nuked right now I would literally not care, If I told you that to your face how would you feel?

Those artifacts are not yours, didn't you say you care for your own people and nothing else so why not give the Egyptian people their artifacts back? Your ancestors nor your people made them so why do you care?

Also I wouldn't suggest you call for war on Every Nation you feel like you can bully into submission when really your army is so bad you most likely couldn't get past a bedouin tribe.

"Italy had entered the War in 1915 to liberate Italian speaking territories still under Austrian rule, but lost 600,000 men in the War, and gained nothing. What remained was a grotesque vision of the war's absurdity and the incompetence of its commanders."

"The Italian army of World War II was the least effective force of World War II that conducted major offensive actions. Its inability to defend its interwar conquest of Ethiopia, its disastrous invasion of Greece, its failure to support the flanks of the German Third Army leading to the encirclement at Stalingrad, and the dramatic collapse of its initial invasion of Egypt were the most notable events."

"The follow-up to the Italian invasion of Egypt in North Africa during winter 1940–41. The Italian army built their forts too far apart so they were not mutually supporting, and lacked tanks or other mobile forces. A British force of 35,000 men was able to rout, during Operation Compass, the Italian army of 150,000, forcing them back 800 km (500 mi) and capturing around three times their own number for almost no losses."

"The Italian military has, in fact, been the subject of
historians' criticism, past allies' irritation and current
American humor. Even those who know very little about military
history can readily produce a joke dealing with some aspect of
Italian military inability. There is common reference, for
example, to Italian tanks which have one forward and three
reverse gears, or to used Italian military rifles for sale which
have "been dropped only once"."

"Among the armies of the developed countries, the Italian one is the least well trained. Ceremonies and parades excluded, the recruits are able to do nothing. There is a pro-forma Army supported by a state which has no interest to better it."

With Corruption,Mafias,Crime,Organized crime and economic problems as well as the potential for economic recession an Italian should be the last one daring people and countries to go to war.
 
You should care about what they saw. if it was YOU in their shoes you wouldn't be so much of a psychotic sociopath. How would you feel if Italy had a civil war and half the population had to escape? How would you feel if it was the Syrian who was calling for lethal force on you? No they would not kill you if the table were turned. I only care about the slave state that was Rome and could give less of a crap about the Roman people in modern times if you were nuked right now I would literally not care, If I told you that to your face how would you feel?

Those artifacts are not yours, didn't you say you care for your own people and nothing else so why not give the Egyptian people their artifacts back? Your ancestors nor your people made them so why do you care?

Also I wouldn't suggest you call for war on Every Nation you feel like you can bully into submission when really your army is so bad you most likely couldn't get past a bedouin tribe.

"Italy had entered the War in 1915 to liberate Italian speaking territories still under Austrian rule, but lost 600,000 men in the War, and gained nothing. What remained was a grotesque vision of the war's absurdity and the incompetence of its commanders."

"The Italian army of World War II was the least effective force of World War II that conducted major offensive actions. Its inability to defend its interwar conquest of Ethiopia, its disastrous invasion of Greece, its failure to support the flanks of the German Third Army leading to the encirclement at Stalingrad, and the dramatic collapse of its initial invasion of Egypt were the most notable events."

"The follow-up to the Italian invasion of Egypt in North Africa during winter 1940–41. The Italian army built their forts too far apart so they were not mutually supporting, and lacked tanks or other mobile forces. A British force of 35,000 men was able to rout, during Operation Compass, the Italian army of 150,000, forcing them back 800 km (500 mi) and capturing around three times their own number for almost no losses."

"The Italian military has, in fact, been the subject of
historians' criticism, past allies' irritation and current
American humor. Even those who know very little about military
history can readily produce a joke dealing with some aspect of
Italian military inability. There is common reference, for
example, to Italian tanks which have one forward and three
reverse gears, or to used Italian military rifles for sale which
have "been dropped only once"."

"Among the armies of the developed countries, the Italian one is the least well trained. Ceremonies and parades excluded, the recruits are able to do nothing. There is a pro-forma Army supported by a state which has no interest to better it."

With Corruption,Mafias,Crime,Organized crime and economic problems as well as the potential for economic recession an Italian should be the last one daring people and countries to go to war.
Don't argue with the troll.
 
i dont care about the shithole you call your country. I care for our interests and i believe a complete break with turkey is in our interests.
Dont act like you have something to say about EU politics,you are just a litle nobody wishing something that never will happen.





Remember we are all equals.
Not according to some racist biggots.
You and i are equals.:tup:
 
It's called lethal force. Put millions of land mines on the border with turkey, prevent all turkish origin planes and ships from entering European ports and airspace through the threat of lethal force. That would be effective enough

Good luck stopping the biggest airline in Europe Turkish Airlines.

No one cares about Canada, so you must feel so important talking bad about Turkey here.

Not as delusional as letting turkey blackmail you without putting up a fight.

What fight, the fight for gay rights?

Oh wait is this Markus =

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