France rules out submarine sale to Pakistan (according to Dunya news).

[Beast]

Nor will they have one to show as France's strategy is that a 5th gen fighter doesn't offer much and they can keep the Rafale constantly upgraded to match every 5th gen (it's all about the avionics) out there.After that the strategy is to go straight for 6th gen unmanned fighter,a strategy they're allready working on.

Can't have the apple of cos they will claim its sour. A rafale not matter how u modify it's still not a 5th gen becos of unstealthy payload dangling outside. Unless Rafale can fly without payload for combat.

 

[Tameem]

Dear Tameem, same remark as before, don't post stuff that only embarrasses yourself and show the
fanboy overcoming the knowledgeable poster, for your own sake really!
The iPhone is US tech and made in China!!! and Android is not Chinese either!

Come on peeps, a bit of serious less you want to prove Flamer's comment right?

TYVM, talk to you later, Tay.

U are very touchy...I only means unlike android, Ip binds you to its own features only. Even within its own domain/software downloading/uploading anything is very restricted & cumbersome.

 

[flamer84]

Can't have the apple of cos they will claim its sour. A rafale not matter how u modify it's still not a 5th gen becos of unstealthy payload dangling outside. Unless Rafale can fly without payload for combat.

That's your theory ? Why invest in that if you can keep it low ,save the money,invest in avionics,new better radars and the unmanned ones.If Italy has the money to buy F35 you could be sure a country like France would have not let herself to stay behind if it thought it was worth it.

But ofcourse,as usual ,you want to take the childlish way in a discussion.Well,where's your new built,shiny aircraft carrier ?

 

[SrNair]

S-400 and su-35 were all the while a lies. Show me rosoboroexport link of signing an agreement for these deals and I eat back my words.

There show your intelligent level. China is advancing fast. We are even making the world fastest super computer while others are lagging behind. The France even need to buy a 60000tons forge presser from Russian for their Airbus aircraft while China basically build the largest forge presser of 80000tons.

Putin Approves Sale of S-400 to China | The Diplomat


I agree .China is advancing fast .But for competing Europeans tech copy ,paste and hacking ,espionaging is still not enough.For creating a tech like that of Spectre of Thales China is still need at least two decades of experience .
And after all China is still importing a lot of systems from Russia.You dont need to go anywhere .Pakistan ordered for 8 subs from China but still looking for a European second hand .That itself has a message.
If you have intelligence you can understand that.

 

[waz]

Folks keep on topic. It's not a China v European tech debate.

 

[rockstar08]

Folks keep on topic. It's not a China v European tech debate.

which one is your favorite choice ?

 

[C130]

any chance of getting Amur?

 

[xyxmt]

214 would be an excellent option for Pakistan. But again, where are the funds coming from that's the biggest question.

I dont want to use that word, so I ask why always ask about money

 

[Dalit]

Low quality products? I am not the biggest fan of french tech but trust me when I say this French subs are of far better quality than anything the Chinese has to offer.

How on earth do you know that? Have you even ever sat in just one of these subs? All these ridiculous claims about one being better than the other. The last time I heard a Chinese sub popped up undetected at the heart of a US Pacific exercise leaving everyone dumbstruck. That includes the Americans. I don't know what you're talking about...

 

[sancho]

and the Germans were very eager to sell to us.

"Were", doesn't mean they still are, since Pakistan and Germany have changed since 2009. Pakistan then was a difficult country to sell arms to and the government quite some time to get all necessary approvals, but it's even more difficult today, with the situation in the country being more unstable.
Also the current German Minister for economic affairs, is pushing a very restrictive arms export policy ,which makes it hard even to sell weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia or Indonesia, which not only have the money, but politically are more regarded than Pakistan.
So if the French back out (and they generally are ready to sell to anybody), it makes it more than difficult for the German government to justify a sale to Pakistan, on political terms in the first place, let alone the financial issues. Also, the last time the French stated ToT related issues for not selling stuff, was influenced by the US government and if that is still the case, that influence is even stronger on the German.

Btw, U214 is not just the export designation, but is the export sub, which by design is based on the older generation of German U209 subs. It shares some techs and systems with the U212, but still has credible differences.

But doesn't it also tell something about PN's confidence in Chinese subs, when they after 6 years still are trying hard to get western subs, against all political and financial odds, when the Chinese subs and loans should be far easier to get?

 

[Dalit]

But doesn't it also tell something about PN's confidence in Chinese subs, when they after 6 years still are trying hard to get western subs, against all political and financial odds, when the Chinese subs and loans should be far easier to get?

Stop spreading false information. The PN has already made it abundantly clear that it will acquire Chinese subs regardless of other prospects. Your accusation regarding PNs confidence in Chinese subs is therefore null and void. The PN has more than just confidence in Chinese subs. This isn't the China of the 80s and 90s. This is China of 2015. You wouldn't even know what hits you. That's how full of surprises China is. Ask the Americans who were red faced when a Chinese sub resurfaced in the midst of an exercise some time ago. That was then. Now is different story all together.

Pakistan nears deal to buy 8 Chinese submarines

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a2c22012-d845-11e4-ba53-00144feab7de.html

As for German/French subs, even if PN wanted them they couldn't afford them. I'm not even going to delve into whether these countries would be willing to sell these subs to Pakistan. That's irrelevant though. PNs future lies with Chinese subs.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@Viper0011. There goes your french theory

That theory never existed..... ask our French co-forummers about that. They had "pulled the rug" on that in the appropriate thread already.
So your interlocutor Orangzaib miyan; was also "out on a limb" solely on a piece of fiction.

 

[Kompromat]

Just 'bargaining'.

 

[monitor]

As French expect to sell rafale and already giving scorpion(6) to India it was not unlikely they will refuse to sell sub at least at this moment when 20 billion dollar business is concern . after the completion of MMRCA deal French may again agree to to sell hight value weapons to Pakistan as then India would not have card to stop French . but Pakistan was negotiating for German sub i think U-214 can consider as replacement/supplement Augusta along with Chinese sub .

 

[araz]

They already funded for F 35 .And France is not Turkey .
Chinese still need a long way to go compete European technology .Because they were first one start this defence technology R&D and exporting ans so they have decades of experience.Only rival that can compete them is Russia .That is why you still relying on Russia for Su 35 and S 400..Chinese started all this only after 1990 ,with espionage and copying.

Tommorrow if Germany offers their 214 with a price tag similar to Chinese sub .Pakistan will take Germans.

Bhai.
Relax!! After all it is only a forum a d we are here to LISTEN AND HOPEFULLY LEARN from each other. As to the German deal we backed out because of Problems. with the financing of the Dea as cash was restricted followi g the last big floods and the bloody Zardari govtt. Probably the Germans were not as forth coming with a topping of Zardaris liking and therefore no deal. The AIP on the 214 is a different type but they do have 533mm tubes for small CM launch. However the Germans are still influenced by Israel so whether there was any pressure on them from that quarter or not is also a possibility.
As to now we dont have a chance of acquiring western tech DIRECTLY from Germans or from the French and hence we are taking some other measures to have our product of some matching quality. The Chinese option needs not be discussed as a lot had been said. Needless to say that for a bang for the buck it is the only affordable offer and the way the chinese are improving and evolving and the way they are sharing their experiences with PN is exemplary. Interestingly we have been hearing this news since 2010 and apparently still no deal signed. Do members ponder over it in light of what happened with the JFT. With Pak- China our friends will deliver on our expectations at a price we can afford and share the development with us. What more do we want.
Araz