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This is absolutely wonderful news
What it also means is that our efforts in Kaveri have been 70 PERCENT successful
The knowledge and experience gained by our engineers in Kaveri
would not go waste
In fact it would now be enhanced and be taken to its
logical conclusion
Its always a very good development..
If offsets is Euro 3Bn then @50% offset the deal is at Euro 6Bn excluding weapons package or $6.6 Bn. Throw in weapons package of only meteors and Storm shadow (as mica is already there), all inclusive is in line with what i said earlier $7.5 Bn in Rafale sticky thread. Of course we have to wait for more confirmation.
But Euro 3 Bn or $3.3 Bn out of which manufacturing line may take around Euro 2 Bn max leaves surely a good place to invest the rest of the amount. By targeting Kaveri engine and if the credible offset implementation leads to it powering LCA Mk1A, that would be a humongous achievement and biggest form of assistance.
i said DM MP wants Rafale deal and has told Trappier to take 5 tranches in MII but sweeten the deal a bit more (in Rafale sticky).
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In the words of @zebra7 , who had always emphasized a thumb rule of tried and tested engines on the frontline fighters over untested ones, this may open up our path to credible achievement in Engine tech. First in a flying test bed, then may be one engine of Mig 29s and then once all tests are proper , fit into LCA Mk1A test aircraft. It will be a step by step progression.. May be it may not fit in first few LCA aircraft as well.. But we should use this opportunity and make it work to fit our frontline fighters and use it effectively. We should further uprate and build better variants for AMCA as well.
Ghatak program is not very surprising. I have always said in the sticky that NSA Ajit Doval had negotiated a lot of tech transfer from France. Including help in AMCA and transfer of Neuron tech into domestic Indian UCAV program.
Now is the time to understand whats really on offer.. from SSN tech to AIP tech to Neuron tech to engine tech to help in LCA to AMCA to a new ALCM to much more.. Haters can hate Rafale deal but assess it with other aircraft makers campaign and you can see the difference of how much France India relationship and Rafale deal is strategic in nature.
and here in sticky i said something like this
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I am looking to see only one result.. Even though i may sound optimist but i would like our AMCA to be powered by a variant of Kaveri only. If we successfully execute this, the less dependence on GE 414 and Ge404 ones, will make us less dependent on USA and will infact help us negotiate and get better tech in other critical fields.
Its a long shot, but we can do it surely. Now its upto GOI and DM to make things happen with suitable selections and approval. I sincerely hope now we move ahead for the MII part and take it forward for a more fruitful conclusion.
Its a long shot but you know M88 family has designs upto 11 Tn engines or around 110 Kn thrust.. @Picdelamirand-oil @Taygibay @BON PLAN can say about that..Will gtre retain the IP. They might give us m88 tech under the veil of Kaveri and then claim it as their engine. Also I would love for engine commonality between Tejas mk1a and Rafale. same upgraded engine could be used in Rafael also(as you have earlier said next phase raffle will have 7-10% higher wet thrust than original 75kn). Is it possible for m88-k9/k10 to power amca(at 110-120kn)?. It would be a delight to watch at least engine commonality between our fighters
From the beginning, M88 is a familly, covering from 7.5T to 11.5 tons (with after burner).Its a long shot but you know M88 family has designs upto 11 Tn engines or around 110 Kn thrust.. @Picdelamirand-oil @Taygibay @BON PLAN can say about that..
What is interesting is , we can also have further evolution of Kaveri program once we successfully power it up and make it reliable enough for LCA. We can then look at uprated engine family and build one to power our AMCA.
Of course questions may be asked that in past Snecma did not help much in Kaveri program. But perhaps now with a much stringent offset implementation and other conditionalities as well as competition from USA/GE , this time there is a much lesser chance of goof up or making a false promise.
One must understand that Boeing and GE deal of F18 and GE414 with Saab Gripen E is always trying to talk on Engine tech transfer. So its a good way to kill all competition..
To look forward, we need to see how much metallurgical help, hot engine tech and other important parts are shared. Perhaps a portion of M88-2 can be of great help.
It would be interesting if Kaveri is also turned into a much better modular design and far more maintenance friendly as Snecma engines are. That will be an immense help and will help our LCA and other programs much more.
But we have to wait a bit more to see real actions when GOI and DM takes a final call..
From the beginning, M88 is a familly, covering from 7.5T to 11.5 tons (with after burner).
already studied and used or tested on a bench :
M88-2 = 7.5 tons (and maybe a little bit more... M88 for Qatar planes seem to be 8.3 tons ...)
M88-3 = 9 tons. Studied for UAE in the past.
current “In recent times, the engine has been able to produce thrust of 82 Kilo Newton but what the IAF and other stake-holders desire is power between 90—95 KNHow much increase in thrust are we looking at with the French help?
Hopefully this materialize soon and we have Kaveri powering most of the IAF fleet in the future.
If French can help us to increase the thrust to 100-105 kn with no increase in weight then it will be beneficial for us in both LCA and the AMCA project.current “In recent times, the engine has been able to produce thrust of 82 Kilo Newton but what the IAF and other stake-holders desire is power between 90—95 KN
Dry weight: 2,724 lb (1,235 kg) [Goal: 2,100-2450 lb (950-1100 kg)]
I think they are being really sneaky and offered this so that they could share less Rafale tech. Instead of spending the full offset proceeds on Rafale related technology they will be diverting 1/3 of the funds on an engine development project to be carried out by one of their own firms.
I agree. India is a nice partner for France.Tomo if the French decides to make 5th gen fighter, they will need a new engine. Its better they invest the money for such an engine in Kaveri, for which both India and France will benefit. Win-win.