Kaveri engine will not power Tejas MK-1 nor AMCA

[Dillinger]

Again, partially! MoD is responsible for giving them too much freedom and a monopoly in certain fields of the defence market, no doubt about that. But MoD is not responsible when ADA messes up designs, DRDO messes up project management, or the development of core techs. These are internal problems of ADA and DRDO and where they need improvement, just like other PSUs, to be more effective.

You do know that the MoD WANTS them to keep their monopoly right?

 

[Dash]

Well a lot of what is wrong with ADA and HAL is thanks to the MoD too. Not much hope Sancho yaara.



The MoD ensured that they were the only designers.

It started as such, the dilemma is it will continue to be one such org.

They have developed the M88 ECO tech demo version with 90kN and have offered the core for the Kaveri / Snecma co-developed engine, but it doesn't make much sense for us to pay extra for a 90kN engine, when there are more powerful engines available already. Same reason why we didn't took that way for LCA MK2 and evaluated only EJ 200 and the GE 414.
Not to forget that there is the question if 90kN is enough to power a propper medium class stealth fighter, with the performance requirements of IAF. Then again it would be better to pay for EJ 200/GE 414 upgrades to around 100kN, rather than paying for the M88.

90 KN should be adequate, considering Rafale is 75 KN now, however we dont need it anyway, GE 414 is the engine, considering it powers the hornet and ideal for NLCA.

Any idea why pratt and whitney was never considered by us?

 

[Dillinger]

It started as such, the dilemma is it will continue to be one such org.

I still remember the ADA director happily giving his presentation at the seminar, he was gleefully proclaiming that when they submitted the Tejas for its prelim review by the IAF, even then they had no idea of MRO/TBO/sortie generation rate issues. I felt catatonic.

 

[sancho]

You do know that the MoD WANTS them to keep their monopoly right?

If that would be true, they would have gone with DRDOs poor FICV developments and not by inviting Indian privat and foreign to form JVs and offer something in a competition. Now we see even DRDO teaming up with TATA for the Kestrel, so MoD surely don't want the PSUs to remain with monopoly, they have understood their mistakes of the past and are doing a good job with creating all the competitions, insitsing on high ToT, offsets and JVs and to keep inviting Indian privat companies to take more effort (although most Indians don't see the changes of MoDs work and blame them only). However, we are still at the begining, for too many things PSUs are still the only answer today and until more competition is available, we have to focus on making PSUs more effective, by restricting them again, to focus on what is really needed and what they actually can deliver.

 

[Dillinger]

If that would be true, they would have gone with DRDOs poor FICV developments and not by inviting Indian privat and foreign to form JVs and offer something in a competition. Now we see even DRDO teaming up with TATA for the Kestrel, so MoD surely don't want the PSUs to remain with monopoly, they have understood their mistakes of the past and are doing a good job with creating all the competitions, insitsing on high ToT, offsets and JVs and to keep inviting Indian privat companies to take more effort (although most Indians don't see the changes of MoDs work and blame them only). However, we are still at the begining, for too many things PSUs are still the only answer today and until more competition is available, we have to focus on making PSUs more effective, by restricting them again, to focus on what is really needed and what they actually can deliver.

No no, you're taking the macrocosmic view of the whole Indian MIC, its aviation where MoD is keen to retain design expertise in its paws.

Did I ever use the word nickle moron>?

Which other alloy do you intend to use? There are various nickle based super alloys which are used. Pick one, pick a salute concentration range with an acceptable deviance with all others factors constant I'll give you an equilibrium solidification temp range (cooling temp as you call it).

PLEASE TELL ME THAT YOU KNOW THAT THE ALLOY IN QUESTION FOR SO LONG IS A NICKLE BASED ALLOY!? SCBS ARE ONLY FABRICATED USING NICKLE BASED ALLOYS, THE QUESTION I'VE ASKED IS WHICH ONE OF THEM ARE YOU REFERRING TO WHEN YOU DEMAND A "COOLING TEMP" SINCE THERE ISN'T JUST ONE SUCH ALLOY OUT THERE??

 

[MilSpec]

Making is one thing, but pitching it would have to be done now, otherwise ADA/DRDO will get clearance from MoD and HAL is once again left with basic integration work. So apart from the naval Dhruv in competition to other naval LUH, competing ADA/DRDO for AMCA would be the next good move from HAL to prove it's worth (instead of wasting resources on HTT 40, IMRH, or similar developments).

Once again, HAL lives in the real world... Please do explain to me what it takes to pitch a concept. Dfmea for HTT 40 is complete with process documentation in the works, thus knowing what exact resources and tech would be needed, thus the pitch... pray tell me how do you pitch a product without knowing what exactly will go in to the design and process? HAL is not ADA ...

competing ADA/DRDO for AMCA would be the next good move from HAL to prove it's worth (instead of wasting resources on HTT 40, IMRH, or similar developments).

pitch that to your dear MOD

 

[ashok321]

That being said, you are parroting repeated and rather baseless arguments as well without contributing ANYTHING yourself to the information being presented here. So either you agree to disagree and move on, or Ill be forced to do so. The past six pages seem copy paste's of each other with you being given multiple explanations but there you are repeating the same argument by rephrasing it and nothing more.

Can you substantiate and corroborate that Ukraine HAS it for India to have it all?
Why you waNt to run away members with your veiled threats ?

 

[MilSpec]

BUT WHY THE SAME OLD DISCREDITED MANAGEMENT MODULE BY THE POWERS THAT BE, ADA SHALL DESIGN AND HAL SHALL BUILD!!

Because MoD is being run by stellar personalities, whose primary job is say no to everything.

 

[Dillinger]

Because MoD is being run by stellar personalities, whose primary job is say no to everything.

I did wish that a certain someone would trip on his lungi and fall down the stairs.

 

[Dash]

I still remember the ADA director happily giving his presentation at the seminar, he was gleefully proclaiming that when they submitted the Tejas for its prelim review by the IAF, even then they had no idea of MRO/TBO/sortie generation rate issues. I felt catatonic.

You felt right, I remember one incident, where IAF Was told that they have full TOT, but on a demo the bombs didnt fall, this is just a bomb you know, and we are talking about rocket science.

 

[MilSpec]

I did wish that a certain someone would trip on his lungi and fall down the stairs.

Don't... @sancho will get pissed off... Although I wasn't referring to Antony, most of the secretaries in the south block do not have specialized skills needed for either defence procurements, project management or research managment... these are tax, agri, foriegn, rejects which are posted here...

 

[Dillinger]

Don't... @sancho will get pissed off...

Actually I don't think Sancho likes him much either.

@sandy_3126 OT but did you get down to writing a review on the MCIWS on your blog?

Don't... @sancho will get pissed off... Although I wasn't referring to Antony, most of the secretaries in the south block do not have specialized skills needed for either defence procurements, project management or research managment... these are tax, agri, foriegn, rejects which are posted here...

That would explain the current fiasco with LOAs which were drafted months ago not being released to the OEMs. Just one more example of the famous Indian rope trick..look up..look up..AND poof your wallet is empty but hey ponder upon the mystery of the rope. Nitwits!!

 

[MilSpec]

Actually I don't think Sancho likes him much either.

@sandy_3126 OT but did you get down to writing a review on the MCIWS on your blog?

Nopes buddy, haven't written anything is last 5 months now, got promoted, work is kicking my ***...

 

[Dillinger]

Nopes buddy, haven't written anything is last 5 months now, got promoted, work is kicking my ***...

HAHAHAHA..NOT! Work is kicking all our asses. BUT I HAVE A MONTH LONG VACATION!

 

[MilSpec]

HAHAHAHA..NOT! Work is kicking all our asses. BUT I HAVE A MONTH LONG VACATION!

Ohh I wish I could be you for a month then .... Havent had a single day of vacation since November..