Kaveri engine will not power Tejas MK-1 nor AMCA

[Dillinger]

pitch is still years from the making...

BUT WHY THE SAME OLD DISCREDITED MANAGEMENT MODULE BY THE POWERS THAT BE, ADA SHALL DESIGN AND HAL SHALL BUILD!!

 

[narcon]

The temperature scale is below the melting point of the specific alloy in the other zone, the vacuum induction melting furnace has two regions/areas- one kept above the melting point of the alloy and other below it. The alloy first passes in the molten form and then is slowly passed to the "other" zone as in the region where the temperature is below the melting point (you don't freeze and thaw, this isn't a hunk of meat you moron)..the key being very slowly..this ensures a gradient formation for interaction between the molten and solid state portions of alloy (more elucidation on that when dealing with dendrite formation).

You want me to explain a complicated process in layman's terms? Teach you like a little child? This is the simplest it gets unless you want to follow the following instruction- first you heat it and then you cool it!

What is the exact temperature set?

 

[Dillinger]

And on top of that DRDO with a record of excellent project management and development capabilities! But if Kaveri is really de-linked, one of to say, that they have learned at least something and don't want to make the fighter development dependent on the engine development again.
Anyway, the best engine options for AMCA remains:

1. Single engine varient of the FGFA Type 30 (Supercruise capable, TVC developed, will be navalised for Russian navy, licence produced by HAL in India)

2. GE 414 engine of LCA MK2 (Supercruise capable at least in Gripen NG, produced by HAL in India, already navalised, but not TVC)

3. EJ 200 of the EF (Supercruise capable, TVC joint development on offer, but costly and not under production in India so far, could be the perfect base for a jointly developed Kaveri K10)

4. Kaveri K10, jointly developed with a foreign partner (Own engine, but require a lot of upgrading and maturing to offer 5th gen capabilities)

5. M88 engine of Rafale (Supercruise capable and produced in India, but most likely too less thrust to power an AMCA)

At the end of the day we defer to the wisdom of those who populate the halls of the MoD.

What is the exact temperature set?

The exact temperature cannot be the same for two different alloys, for example which iteration of the CMSX family are you dealing with. How can you comprehend the concepts of equilibrium solidification temperature, variances involved, salute concentration etc....

This is way beyond you...

 

[he-man]

BUT WHY THE SAME OLD DISCREDITED MANAGEMENT MODULE BY THE POWERS THAT BE, ADA SHALL DESIGN AND HAL SHALL BUILD!!

Agreed,we need private participation.

Give some incentives to tata or reliance,there is no other way.
Without any freebies attached,they won't agree

 

[sancho]

pitch is still years from the making...

Making is one thing, but pitching it would have to be done now, otherwise ADA/DRDO will get clearance from MoD and HAL is once again left with basic integration work. So apart from the naval Dhruv in competition to other naval LUH, competing ADA/DRDO for AMCA would be the next good move from HAL to prove it's worth (instead of wasting resources on HTT 40, IMRH, or similar developments).

 

[Dillinger]

Agreed,we need private participation.

Give some incentives to tata or reliance,there is no other way.
Without any freebies attached,they won't agree

You see the issue is simple, the MoD is more than happy to let private companies participate. Even for the Tejas the composites, sub components, fairings and assemblies came from private companies. The only issue is that the flag ship combat aircraft project (Tejas or AMCA) will NOT be designed by anyone but the ADA..NOT EVEN HAL..some sort of weird hang up of the MoD.

 

[Dash]

5. M88 engine of Rafale (Supercruise capable and produced in India, but most likely too less thrust to power an AMCA)

I guess M88E or some version is coming with 90 KN thrust?

 

[sancho]

At the end of the day we defer to the wisdom o those who populate the halls of the MoD.

Partially, because if they reject ADA/DRDO just like the, Indian forumers would blame them again for not supportin indigenous developments. So it's not that easy for MoD, but they have to focus on getting alternatives to ADA/DRDO and form a competition, if such a fighter requirement exists and not simply take ADAs/DRDOs proposal, since it's the only available offer. That's why I want HAL to compete them, PSUs competing eachother is still better than not having competition at all.

 

[Dillinger]

Making is one thing, but pitching it would have to be done now, otherwise ADA/DRDO will get clearance from MoD and HAL is once again left with basic integration work. So apart from the naval Dhruv in competition to other naval LUH, competing ADA/DRDO for AMCA would be the next good move from HAL to prove it's worth (instead of wasting resources on HTT 40, IMRH, or similar developments).

Actually most of HAL's resources are tied into the FGFA, in fact HAL has been more than happy to see its work share fall as long as it can ensure that its cadre will go through the associated project and managerial skill development, production cycle mastering (sitting in on the FGFA is like a master class in these aspects). All these things were lost the day ADA came up, hopefully something good will come out of it.

 

[Dash]

You see the issue is simple, the MoD is more than happy to let private companies participate. Even for the Tejas the composites, sub components, fairings and assemblies came from private companies. The only issue is that the flag ship combat aircraft project (Tejas or AMCA) will NOT be designed by anyone but the ADA..NOT EVEN HAL..some sort of weird hang up of the MoD.

You see they are the only designers we get here, you need them but you need a good project manager, thats all.

 

[Dillinger]

Partially, because if they reject ADA/DRDO just like the, Indian forumers would blame them again for not supportin indigenous developments. So it's not that easy for MoD, but they have to focus on getting alternatives to ADA/DRDO and form a competition, if such a fighter requirement exists and not simply take ADAs/DRDOs proposal, since it's the only available offer. That's why I want HAL to compete them, PSUs competing eachother is still better than not having competition at all.

Well a lot of what is wrong with ADA and HAL is thanks to the MoD too. Not much hope Sancho yaara.

You see they are the only designers we get here, you need them but you need a good project manager, thats all.

The MoD ensured that they were the only designers.

 

[sancho]

I guess M88E or some version is coming with 90 KN thrust?

They have developed the M88 ECO tech demo version with 90kN and have offered the core for the Kaveri / Snecma co-developed engine, but it doesn't make much sense for us to pay extra for a 90kN engine, when there are more powerful engines available already. Same reason why we didn't took that way for LCA MK2 and evaluated only EJ 200 and the GE 414.
Not to forget that there is the question if 90kN is enough to power a propper medium class stealth fighter, with the performance requirements of IAF. Then again it would be better to pay for EJ 200/GE 414 upgrades to around 100kN, rather than paying for the M88.

 

[narcon]

At the end of the day we defer to the wisdom of those who populate the halls of the MoD.



The exact temperature cannot be the same for two different alloys, for example which iteration of the CMSX family are you dealing with. How can you comprehend the concepts of equilibrium solidification temperature, variances involved, salute concentration etc....

This is way beyond you...

That is because you said one has to cool it.
Its all about the creep/tensile value at the end.
IS IT NOT?
How did you say cool it without knowing the properties of an alloy to begin with?
And now you are withdrawing, when asked about required temperature/

See?
You are getting cooked in your own sweet sauce.
Lol

I said cooked?
You are stewed boy...

 

[SQ8]

That is because you said one has to cool it.
Its all about the creep/tensile value at the end.
IS IT NOT?
How did you say cool it without knowing the properties of an alloy to begin with?
And now you are withdrawing, when asked about required temperature/

See?
You are getting cooked in your own sweet sauce.
Lol

I said cooked?
You are stewed boy...

That being said, you are parroting repeated and rather baseless arguments as well without contributing ANYTHING yourself to the information being presented here. So either you agree to disagree and move on, or Ill be forced to do so. The past six pages seem copy paste's of each other with you being given multiple explanations but there you are repeating the same argument by rephrasing it and nothing more.

 

[sancho]

Well a lot of what is wrong with ADA and HAL is thanks to the MoD too. Not much hope Sancho yaara.

Again, partially! MoD is responsible for giving them too much freedom and a monopoly in certain fields of the defence market, no doubt about that. But MoD is not responsible when ADA messes up designs, DRDO messes up project management, or the development of core techs. These are internal problems of ADA and DRDO and where they need improvement, just like other PSUs, to be more effective.

 

[Dillinger]

That is because you said one has to cool it.
Its all about the creep/tensile value at the end.
IS IT NOT?
How did you say cool it without knowing the properties of an alloy to begin with?
And now you are withdrawing, when asked about required temperature/

See?
You are getting cooked in your own sweet sauce.
Lol

Because you, you moron have not specified which alloy or have you assumed that there is only one nickle based alloy used in SCB fabrication? Secondly salute concentration varies due to the fact that the equilibrium solidification temperature of the molten alloy varies. Does the term "varies" not register. You want me to spoon feed you a figure without you specifying for which alloy, at what salute concentration and with what undercooling conditions occurring. Have you taken leave of your senses??

Of course you cool it, AT WHAT SPECIFIC TEMP THE COOLING TAKES PLACE DEPENDS UPON THE ABOVE STATED VARIABLES!!