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FM meetings : Peace momentum stalls

If kassab was a true to fashion ISI indoctrinated terrorist he would have commited sucide rather than giving himself up most probably by strapped explosives. WTF is that orange band Kassab is wearing?? Also he doesnt look like ethinic indo-persian which dominate Pakistan racial demographics or atleast those of ISI terrorist pool??

Missing out finer details in fabricated lies??
Hitler managed to fabricate an entire WW2 out of air..So in modren age of technology it is very difficult to discount that Indian cannot manage to fabricate staged terror..After all both share the "aryan supermacy" myth.

For the Indian jumping into vis a vis Kashmir, unlucky for you Balochistan and NWFP are not recocnized by UN as disputed. For 60 years we are talking to resolve which shows our willingness however the LOC has not been altered by an inch which shows Indian hesitation.
 
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Arre chodhoo na Yaar, jo log apne mehmaan ki izzat nahi kar sakte, aur besti karne mai bhi ek bahaduri samajh rahe hai, unse hum kya umeed kar sakte hai?

Dhasatgardi ki safai dete dete 100 jhoot bolte hai, apni baat ko hi hazar baar maudte hai, sharm naak haadso ko bhi khete hai ki acha hua..To aiso se baat karna kya faida?
 
Arre chodhoo na Yaar, jo log apne mehmaan ki izzat nahi kar sakte, aur besti karne mai bhi ek bahaduri samajh rahe hai, unse hum kya umeed kar sakte hai?

Dhasatgardi ki safai dete dete 100 jhoot bolte hai, apni baat ko hi hazar baar maudte hai, sharm naak haadso ko bhi khete hai ki acha hua..To aiso se baat karna kya faida?


yes this is what we say to the indians!! :wave:
 
Indian ministers have already left..now ball is in your court, it upto your minister ..if they want to visit India in December..or not.
India has made its stand very clear..there will be no negotiation ,with Pakistan on Kashmir...but all other issues can be discussed.


It doesnt really matter what India thinks and what it stand is , As far as Pakistan is concerned and as stated by FM , No Kashmir talks than India can bugger off!
 
WTF is that orange band Kassab is wearing?? Also he doesnt look like ethinic indo-persian which dominate Pakistan racial demographics or atleast those of ISI terrorist pool??
Ah, the orange band. Ever heard of wanting to blend into one's surroundings to avoid raising suspicions? It could be something else, not necessarily a religious Hindu band, but just orange in colour also.

Well, whatever he looks like, he's Pakistani. Although the Govt made a complete hash of admitting it, luckily our free media was able to expose his origins of Faridkot village (which didn't please the bumbling power bearers). I suggest you watch this:

 
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If kassab was a true to fashion ISI indoctrinated terrorist he would have commited sucide rather than giving himself up most probably by strapped explosives. WTF is that orange band Kassab is wearing?? Also he doesnt look like ethinic indo-persian which dominate Pakistan racial demographics or atleast those of ISI terrorist pool??

Missing out finer details in fabricated lies??
Hitler managed to fabricate an entire WW2 out of air..So in modren age of technology it is very difficult to discount that Indian cannot manage to fabricate staged terror..After all both share the "aryan supermacy" myth.

For the Indian jumping into vis a vis Kashmir, unlucky for you Balochistan and NWFP are not recocnized by UN as disputed. For 60 years we are talking to resolve which shows our willingness however the LOC has not been altered by an inch which shows Indian hesitation.

This BS you are ranting has been discussed and shredded apart numerous times in PDF. But some ppl are like dog's tail.

1. Are you really silly enough to think that a terrorist will come in an attire which clearly stands him out as an outsider, making him easily recognizable?
2. Are you really silly enough to think that India can stage a massacre in its own soil just to not be forced to talk to Pakistan
3. If you really are such a genious to think that India can stage such a massacre on its own people, what stops you from accepting that its your own GOP and ISI which is fabricating the series of bombs and terrorist attacks inside Pakistan ?
4. Aryan race as you call it is entire population of India, Pakistan & Afganistan, no supremacy claims here. Biologically and genetically I m as good or bad as you are. Mentally...well...
 
Several reporters visited the village in Pakistan where Kasab said his family lived, and verified the facts provided by him.Former Pakistan Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif confirmed that Kasab was from Faridkot village in Pakistan, and criticized President Zardari for cordoning off the village and not allowing his parents to meet anyone

Investigative journalist Saeed Shah travelled to Kasab's village and produced national identity card numbers of his parents, Mohammed Amir and Noor Elahi soon after they themselves disappeared on the night of 3 December 2008.

Revealed: home of Mumbai's gunman in Pakistan village | World news | The Observer
 
On that token, as the Pakistani Foreign Minister pointed out, the trial of the alleged 'masterminds' is proceeding, and India cannot impose 'deadlines' on the Pakistani judicial process, and neither can the GoP (which is fighting its own battles with the courts, rather unsuccessfully).

From the GoP's perspective, the Pakistani public is not going to look at any peace process sans dialog on the major conflicts and disputes between the two nations as 'meaningful'. Since the GoP cannot impose its will on the courts, the judicial process will take as long as it takes, and at the end of it India loses her excuse of 'complete the trial of the accused', and will either have to find another excuse to avoid dialog, or get down to discussing Kashmir, Siachen and the other issues. Since dialog on those issues is essential, from the Pakistani perspective, it might as well start now, since those issues will have to come on the table sooner or later.

FM says will visit India if assured meaningful dialogue

ISLAMABAD: Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi Saturday said he would undertake visit of India only if he is assured that the neighboring country had the intention to hold meaningful and result oriented dialogue, otherwise he is not really fond of taking a tourist trip.

“I had never said that Indian external minister repeatedly went out during meeting to receive instructions from Delhi,” Shah Mehmood Qureshi said in an informal chat here at Foreign Office.:lol:

He said some extremist forces in India are against successful Indo-Pak talks.

“Pakistan was willing to hold a frank and candid dialogue on all issues but India had a limited agenda,” the Foreign Minister maintained.

He said that India repeatedly talks about terrorism but it may be kept in mind that Pakistan has been playing a frontline role in war on terror which is acknowledged by the world at large.

+++++

Pakistan is suffering from its own created Terrorists. The analogy is that even though the neighbour beats the living daylight of his own family members does not mean that your neighbour can beat your family members!

Qureshi has just retracted his allegation about the Indian FM going out of "Telephone calls from Indian Fundamentalists".

To ensure his visit to India he will now "HAVE TO DO MORE".
 
Only 960 years left for Bhutto's war

THE Bhuttos, and Bhutto-led governments, seem lost in a rut that has become brittle and boring through over-use. Their only measure of Pakistani patriotism is the level of hysteria that they can simulate against India.

A psychiatrist would be tempted to trace this habit to the fate of Sir Shahnawaz Bhutto, Prime Minister of Junagadh before partition, whose plan to merge his state into Pakistan went badly awry. Bhutto went, of course, minus his state, closely followed by the Nawab of Junagadh who left his family behind but escaped with his dogs. Such speculation, however, is not quite within the realm of a newspaper column.

It is unarguable, though, that the Bhuttos, having proved pathetically impotent whenever they waged war against India, have tried to reassure themselves with the flatulent hype of a war of words.

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was the theorist as well as leader of the 1965 war for Kashmir, a claim that he would doubtless have stressed with far greater glee if Pakistan had succeeded. Operation Gibraltar and Operation Grand Slam failed miserably, an assertion proved by the simple fact that not an inch of territory changed hands along the Cease Fire Line in Jammu and Kashmir.

In 1971, Bhutto tried to camouflage humiliation in Dhaka by promising a thousand years of war against India. Well, we still have 960 years left. No hurry, then, for a peace treaty. Implicit in the 1000-year threat is the recognition that Pakistan cannot win on the battlefield, since if you win war ceases. Futility is, apparently, not sufficient reason for Pakistan to stop fighting.

Zulfiqar's daughter Benazir Bhutto came to ***************** Kashmir in 1989, abused Narasimha Rao and promised Kashmir "azadi," her decibel levels rising to a shriek by the time she had finished the last "azadi" in her speech. Two decades have passed since then, Benazir has been assassinated in her own country, and not an inch of territory has changed hands in Kashmir.

Her husband Asif Zardari's government will sooner or later leave office, either after a peaceful election, or a more violent ejection by the cantonment, and not an inch of territory will have changed despite his plastic smile or his Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi's immature incandescence. War, formal or clandestine, will achieve nothing.

It is possible that the Bhuttos and their servitors do not mean what they say, that this is their default position in the confrontation with their permanent foes in the armed forces. It is time, however, they learnt that terrorism has made the world too dangerous for bluster. The international consensus against this plague will not tolerate the tepid "root cause" argument, either, as justification.

Qureshi forgot that the world was listening when he said that terrorist-infiltrators in the Kashmir were India's problem. He would not last a minute in his job if he told America that Al-Qaeda was Washington's problem and the Pentagon should deal with them once they had infiltrated into America. When the FBI wants a suspect, Pakistan picks up six in six hours. When India asks for Hafiz Saeed, Qureshi talks about India's home secretary G.K. Pillai -- not in the quiet of a conference hall, but at a press conference.

It is no one's case that S.M. Krishna, a suave and seasoned politician, should stoop to Qureshi's levels of street rhetoric. Perhaps Krishna's courtesy prevented him from describing this as nonsense, but silence is not always the best answer to stupidity.

India is America's friend. Pakistan is America's ally. Islamabad has the transcript of David Headley's interrogation in which he exposed the fact that ISI gave at least Rs.25 lakh to fund the terrorist attack on Mumbai in November 2008. Any criminal enquiry will take the trail to the most powerful force in Pakistan. Qureshi had to try and deflect the terrorist issue. He did not have the intellectual sophistication and diplomatic skills for such a responsibility.

Pakistan does not have a foreign policy. It has relationships. Three, with America, China and Saudi Arabia, are as steady as an alliance between a benefactor and client. One, with India, is inimical; which is why Army controls India policy. America, Saudi Arabia and China factor in Pakistan, but do not hold India hostage to Islamabad's interests.

However, Pakistan uses India as the bogey through which it can try to massage benefits from friends and sympathy from neutral countries or blocs. Confrontation suits it better than conciliation, domestically and internationally. Many Pakistanis are convinced about the wisdom of peace with India, but they are not strong enough to challenge the cantonment.

Dr. Manmohan Singh's mandate to Krishna was to reduce the "trust deficit." One wonders how much trust is left after Qureshi has equated Pillai with a terrorist and dismissed Krishna as unprepared and incompetent. Delhi should not respond with hostility. But a little indifference could go a long way.

M.J. Akbar is editor of The Sunday Guardian, published from Delhi, and India on Sunday, published from London.
 
Qureshi has done what army was doing so far , democracy is taking over from military estabilishment . This time its the people of Pakistan !!

Joke of the month. Before vomiting venom against India and comparing a terrorist (who has freedom of speech in Pakistan) and Indian HS he (Crazy Qureshi) went to GHQ and took orders from his masters and derailed the whole talks. Now you can see who is taking over.
 
Joke of the month. Before vomiting venom against India and comparing a terrorist (who has freedom of speech in Pakistan) and Indian HS he (Crazy Qureshi) went to GHQ and took orders from his masters and derailed the whole talks. Now you can see who is taking over.

and why are you forgetting AGRA SUMMIT? when musharraf sat in agra and said let's solve kashmir & vajpayee ran out!

admit it Qureshi already knew the plan of what to do how to react while YOU didn't!!

YOUR ARMY CHIEF GAVE A STATEMENT that in the last 4 years PAKISTAN INFILTRATION is non existent into kashmir! this statement increased pressure on your government and they responded by saying headly admitted he was helped by ISI!!

LOOK AT YOUR OWN CONTRADICTIONS!!


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

'ISI guided LeT at every step for 26/11' - India - The Times of India


see for yourself who was clueless as to what to say and what not to!! :victory:
 
Why didn’t Pillai speak up when Krishna was in Pak?


By Jawed Naqvi

Monday, 19 Jul, 2010

Pakistan’s former foreign minister Gauhar Ayub rightly admitted to an Indian TV channel that his current successor Shah Mehmood Qureshi was out of line in making less than diplomatic comments about India’s Foreign Minister S.M. Krishna in Islamabad last week. Mr Qureshi’s comment to the effect that the visitor did not have the mandate from Delhi to hold serious discussions with him was childish and inappropriate. Moreover, whether Mr Krishna was consulting New Delhi or not on the phone in between his engagements was really not anyone’s business but his own.

Mr Qureshi was of course within his rights to express disapproval of an unnecessary and harmful comment made by Indian Home Secretary G. K. Pillai on the eve of Mr Krishna’s departure for Islamabad. Now I know many Pakistani friends and colleagues, not to speak of Indians, who would agree with Mr Pillai’s contention that the ISI was hand in glove with the perpetrators of the Mumbai terror attacks. Be that as it may, it still doesn’t justify the comment on the eve of the foreign minister’s globally-watched crucial visit and let me tell you why.

Mr Pillai had all the details about the case when his boss, India’s Home Minister P. Chidambaram visited Islamabad on June 26, a visit which was preceded by Mr Pillai’s own useful trip there. Had he made his ISI-was-involved-in-Mumbai comment then, it could have been seen as a bold and even meaningful observation. But he didn’t. Why did he choose to muddy the water for Mr Krishna? Who had authorised him to make that comment at that particular moment? Could he not have left the details of the controversial issue, since that is what it is, to the Indian foreign minister to handle? Surely Mr Krishna could have dealt with it privately or at the press conference he later addressed with his Pakistani counterpart?

And yet Mr Qureshi was wrong to compare Mr Pillai’s role with that of Hafiz Saeed, the fanatical anti-India rabble-rouser. Saeed goes about spewing hatred of Indians and yet remains unchecked by Pakistan’s law-keepers not unlike certain powerful hate-mongers in Mumbai and Gujarat who remain outside the grasp of the state’s corrective institutions for all the untold harm they cause to peace at home and with the neighbourhood. Mr Pillai’s role in queering the pitch for an India-Pakistan dialogue last week was more akin to the part played by the former Indian information minister Sushma Swaraj whose comments to the press contributed directly to the dismal end to the Musharraf-Vajpayee Agra summit on July 16, 2001.

Before coming to Ms Swaraj’s subversive role in Agra, let me put a question about the approach of Mr Pillai and others who may think like him towards India-Pakistan ties. The question is: Between the Kargil conflict and the Mumbai attack, which of the two was more catastrophic for India? In case some find that an unfair question let’s ask an even more blunt one that takes into account Mr Pillai’s concerns about the ISI; which of the two incidents has a clearer imprint of the ISI – Kargil, which everyone now knows was a botched up operation by the Pakistani army – or Mumbai, in which the ISI’s role still remains in the realm of allegation? Certainly Kargil. It was by far the more destructive for India-Pakistan ties because of the clear involvement of Pakistan’s state institutions.

And yet on March 23, 2001, without any apparent overture or apology from Pakistan, then Indian prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee shot off an invitation to President Pervez Musharraf. “For the welfare of our peoples, there is no other recourse but a pursuit of the path of reconciliation, of engaging in productive dialogue and by building trust and confidence…” Vajpayee’s invitation letter ended with a call to “put in place a stable structure of cooperation and address all outstanding issues, including Jammu and Kashmir”.

The Agra summit was torpedoed – not by Mumbai-like terrorists, but by Pillai-like officials and Swaraj-like politicians. A. G. Noorani has painstakingly chronicled the timeline of how it was subverted and why. As Noorani said, let us begin with Sushma Swaraj. On July 15, 2001, the day the talks began in earnest at Agra, she briefed the press listing the issues discussed but omitted Kashmir to the dismay of Pakistanis. She gave contradictory explanations even for this. “I didn’t mention Kashmir because it was obvious. That is why Gen Musharraf has come here.” (The Times of India, July 17). On the same day she said “it was not a deliberate omission” (The Telegraph, July 17).

But, on August 6, in the Lok Sabha, then foreign minister Jaswant Singh suggested it was deliberate. “When she told the press what she did, she told the press what she was authorised to tell and she had the authority of the Vajpayee Cabinet to do so.” He was right. A detailed report from Agra in The Telegraph (July 17) revealed: “It can be said now (after the debacle) that some people had an inkling that the Indian side would come out with a deliberate statement to suggest that Kashmir was not being discussed at all and that the summit was going very badly.”

Noorani notes that three causes were cited for the failure – Musharraf’s talk to seniors in the Indian media on the morning of July 16; his insistence that Kashmir was a “core issue”; and his refusal “to address cross-border terrorism”.

Sushma Swaraj told Pakistan daily The News (July 20): “Things were derailed the moment the video recording of General Saheb’s tough talk to a group of senior editors was instantly made available to all TV channels of the world who took no time in airing them.” She knew, of course, that this was simply not true. NDTV’s Prannoy Roy asked for the video, acquired it and telecast it. The so-called substantive bit was equally false. One of the editors who was present, Shekhar Gupta, asked Advani on his Walk the Talk programme on NDTV on March 12, 2005, whether the cause was “the breakfast with us, editors, which was televised”. Advani replied: “I don’t think so. No. Not at all”.

Shekhar recalled in Indian Express on January 31, 2004, that in fact Musharraf made many concessions: “If you go over the tapes of that Agra breakfast, you would underline things Musharraf said that no Pakistani leader had said until then.” Couldn’t Gupta have said the same thing on the day the breakfast was touted as the reason for the inconclusive summit?

If not the breakfast meeting, what was the true cause of the failure at Agra? Jaswant Singh mentioned “three broad areas” at his press conference in Agra on July 17. One was Musharraf’s stand that “unless the issue of Jammu and Kashmir is made central there will be no progress on any other aspect” whereas India’s approach “addresses all issues”. This had been denied by Pakistan’s foreign secretary Inamul Haque at the outset, on July 14. Even so, the Indian foreign minister’s charge was that Pakistan sought discussion of Kashmir exclusively; not settlement of the dispute at Agra, let alone an accord on its own terms.

The second area related to “cross-border terrorism” (CBT). The third was omission of previous accords – Simla and Lahore – the very charge he had publicly made in Delhi on July 14, and which Pakistan’s then foreign secretary Inamul Haque denied instantly (The Hindu of July 15 carried the charge and the denial side by side). In parliament on August 6, Jaswant Singh himself rubbished the Simla and the Tashkent accords but had his remarks deleted from the record (Indian Express, August 9).

No doubt the next venue for the India-Pakistan conundrum is Kabul where both sides will be present at an international conference on Afghanistan. The BJP will be praying that the two sides don’t talk so that it can do all the pretend fence mending and not the Congress or anyone else. Mr Pillai will probably be mining the situation for post-retirement political benefits. Us journalists will grow old reporting these on-again off-again talks.

Meanwhile, young stone-pelters on the streets of Kashmir are facing off against one of the most formidable armies in the world. They are the ones paying a real and terrible price for these diplomatic mind-games.
 
i will ask what the FM wisely (and rightly) asked.

who is in charge of foreign affairs and dilly-dallying in delhi
 
Pillai's Remarks 'under-pinned' the Talks, Admits Krishna​
NEW DELHI: Indian external affairs minister S M Krishna on Wednesday rued that home secretary G K Pillai's remarks about the role of the ISI in 26/11 attack were made on the eve of his talks with Pakistan.

"Mr Pillai could have waited till I came back to issue a statement. Perhaps it would have been wiser if that statement had not been made just on the eve of my visit," Krishna said in an interview to an Indian television channel, making public his displeasure with Pillai for the first time.

Pillai had commented that the Mumbai carnage of November 28, 2008, was planned by the ISI "from beginning to end".

"When two foreign ministers are meeting after the Mumbai attack, there was a special significance for this meeting," Krishna said.

"Everyone who was privy to whatever was happening in government of India ought to have known that the right kind of atmosphere from India's side should have been created for the talks to go on in a very normal manner, but unfortunately this episode happened," he added.

"Well, I have had some discussions with the prime minister," Krishna replied when asked if he had conveyed his dissatisfaction over Pillai's remarks to the prime minister.

After his talks with Krishna in Islamabad on July 15, Pakistan's foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said at a joint press conference that the remarks made by India's home secretary were not "helpful" for better relations when a journalist asked him about Pakistan's action against Hafeez Saeed, the suspected mastermind of the Mumbai attack.

The next day, Krishna told reporters in Delhi that there was no comparison with Saeed and Pillai as the former was crying jihad against India.

Pillai''s remarks ''under-pinned'' the talks, admits Krishna - GEO.tv


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