Feel the Need for Speed

[volatile]

There is a reason US Air force ditched the speed after shutdown of US spy plane over Russia ,as they understood that no matter speed the the missile will out run the jet speed . Its now network centricity and storm shadow concept

 

[ziaulislam]

For some reason , when I view any Air simulator video game Speed/Acceleration make great impact
Specially when attempting a run maneuver

If Speed is such an unimportant feature why all US modern fighters are focused on gradually increasing Speed/Acceleration capabilities of Jets

Majority of US planes are quite fast as you view them on Generation by Generation basis

On a highway if I am doing 100 km / hr and another car comes by doing 160km/hr I see it wizz by me as if I am not even moving

Now if I expand that idea to planes / fighter Jets the speeds are still quite large

your question should be about super cruise rather than max possible speed..

all these high speeds are onlt achievable at very high altitudes

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well super cruise will come in next generation Chinese planes only

 

[Sinnerman108]

There is a reason US Air force ditched the speed after shutdown of US spy plane over Russia ,as they understood that no matter speed the the missile will out run the jet speed . Its now network centricity and storm shadow concept

Not exactly,
see what @ziaulislam is hinting at.

Speeds at Mach 1, or higher put an enormous amount of stress on the aircraft's structure.
If an aircraft is certified to fly above the speed of sound, that does not mean it can or should fly at that speed
unless there is urgent need.

The maintenance intervals reduce, and the amount of stuff that requires changing increases.

On the other hand, the engines need to engage after burners to go at Mach 1, which is basically dumping fuel
at an enormous rate.

Thus, unless one has a very efficient engine capable of super cruise and an aircraft made of titanium
@AZADPAKISTAN2009 can close his own thread.

 

[MastanKhan]

For some reason , when I view any Air simulator video game Speed/Acceleration make great impact
Specially when attempting a run maneuver

If Speed is such an unimportant feature why all US modern fighters are focused on gradually increasing Speed/Acceleration capabilities of Jets

Majority of US planes are quite fast as you view them on Generation by Generation basis

On a highway if I am doing 100 km / hr and another car comes by doing 160km/hr I see it wizz by me as if I am not even moving

Now if I expand that idea to planes / fighter Jets the speeds are still quite large

Hi,

Please don't expand that idea to planes / fighter aircraft---without understanding the science behind it---.

 

[BRAVO_]

in modern warfare speed beyond mach 2 is not an advantage anymore though in past it was considered as an advantage for instance when the US Air Force in the late Sixties accumulated the flight data from several years of Vietnam war air combat, they found that all aircraft had accumulated just minutes at Mach 1.4 and only seconds at Mach 1.6 out of more than 100,000 combat sorties. Never was even Mach 1.8 flown in aircraft which had been optimized for Mach 2.4 (F-104, F-105, F-106A, F-4D/E and F-111).
one more factor which one should keep in mind is the combat radius with after burner Northrop studied a multitude of intercept cases and found that speeds above Mach 1.1 were almost never helpful because they curtailed the combat radius severely.
on the other hand top speed is an important driver in airframe design.... Flying at Mach 2+ requires heavy and complex intakes a heat-resistant structure, high wing sweep and heavy, low-bypass engines. This all degrades the combat qualities at high subsonic speed, which was where those aircraft were used the most. Building into them the capacity for Mach 2+ made them worse for what they were actually used for.

so in new aircraft this lesson is incorporated by maximizing their sustained speed

 

[MastanKhan]

For some reason , when I view any Air simulator video game Speed/Acceleration make great impact
Specially when attempting a run maneuver

If Speed is such an unimportant feature why all US modern fighters are focused on gradually increasing Speed/Acceleration capabilities of Jets

Majority of US planes are quite fast as you view them on Generation by Generation basis

On a highway if I am doing 100 km / hr and another car comes by doing 160km/hr I see it wizz by me as if I am not even moving

Now if I expand that idea to planes / fighter Jets the speeds are still quite large

Hi,

Often I have wondered at the age of the child behind these posts of yours---.

in modern warfare speed beyond mach 2 is not an advantage anymore though in past it was considered as an advantage for instance when the US Air Force in the late Sixties accumulated the flight data from several years of Vietnam war air combat, they found that all aircraft had accumulated just minutes at Mach 1.4 and only seconds at Mach 1.6 out of more than 100,000 combat sorties. Never was even Mach 1.8 flown in aircraft which had been optimized for Mach 2.4 (F-104, F-105, F-106A, F-4D/E and F-111).
one more factor which one should keep in mind is the combat radius with after burner Northrop studied a multitude of intercept cases and found that speeds above Mach 1.1 were almost never helpful because they curtailed the combat radius severely.
on the other hand top speed is an important driver in airframe design.... Flying at Mach 2+ requires heavy and complex intakes a heat-resistant structure, high wing sweep and heavy, low-bypass engines. This all degrades the combat qualities at high subsonic speed, which was where those aircraft were used the most. Building into them the capacity for Mach 2+ made them worse for what they were actually used for.

so in new aircraft this lesson is incorporated by maximizing their sustained speed

Hi,

Tank you for your detailed post on the subject---it has been explained many a times---.

 

[khanasifm]

Agree super cruise is important than max speed

 

[General General]

Speed in modern fighter jets is an obsolete notion. The domain where air battles are fought is in electronic warfare and weapon systems. The jet is simply a carrier of these systems and is secondary in importance. They are simply designed to utilise these systems in the best way possible.
That is why half a century old F-16 is being upgraded with better systems and weapons.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Speed in modern fighter jets is an obsolete notion. The domain where air battles are fought is in electronic warfare and weapon systems. The jet is simply a carrier of these systems and is secondary in importance. They are simply designed to utilise these systems in the best way possible.
That is why half a century old F-16 is being upgraded with better systems and weapons.

That is perfect.

Air power started as hot air balloons in WW1,
Carrier of reconnaissance and weapons
coming full circle

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well with many countries now boasting about EW support in their planes , what happens when both set of pilots lose their sensors , we go back to 1 vs 1 dog fights

And then speed / acceleration makes a big difference

 

[GriffinsRule]

Well with many countries now boasting about EW support in their planes , what happens when both set of pilots lose their sensors , we go back to 1 vs 1 dog fights

And then speed / acceleration makes a big difference

Acceleration and speed are two completely different things. In a dog-fight acceleration matter but speed, not so much. The higher the speed, the lower the maneuverability of the aircraft as it in turn affect the turn radius etc.

 

[Cat Shannon]

JF17s will have to outrun a mach 3 ramjet missile by the time block 3 is in operational production. when it will be capable of doing that, there will be a mach 4-6 ramjet missile in Indian inventory. bottom line, it simply cannot outrun a smaller faster, more agile missile.. yeah ?

 

[帅的一匹]

JF17s will have to outrun a mach 3 ramjet missile by the time block 3 is in operational production. when it will be capable of doing that, there will be a mach 4-6 ramjet missile in Indian inventory. bottom line, it simply cannot outrun a smaller faster, more agile missile.. yeah ?

Block3 will shoot down your jets before locked.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Why not, are we suppose to fly Sub Mach 2.0 Craft for next 30 years nothing wrong to demand high performance

top speed is not important, ACCELERATION AND MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN TOP SPEED, THERE IS A TRADE OFF B/W SPEED AND MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY, IF YOU WANT SPEED LIKE SR-71, MIG-25/31,F-15 THAN FORGET MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY, AND IF YOU WANT TO MANEUVERABLE/AGILE JET THAN BEST SPEED FOR MANEUVERABLE/AGILE JETS IS TRANS-SONIC TO SUPERSONIC (0.85-1.6 MACH, TO MACH 2.3) @AZADPAKISTAN2009

It's time we really figure out if we are going Mach 2.3-Mach 2.5
With reduced weight and more power in engine, all aspects point towards a Improvement
in Speed and Acceleration

Top of Line Chinese Engineering Marvel , Tremendous Thrust capabilities
Yuge potential

top speed is not important, ACCELERATION AND MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN TOP SPEED, THERE IS A TRADE OFF B/W SPEED AND MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY, IF YOU WANT SPEED LIKE SR-71, MIG-25/31,F-15 THAN FORGET MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY, AND IF YOU WANT TO MANEUVERABLE/AGILE JET THAN BEST SPEED FOR MANEUVERABLE/AGILE JETS IS TRANS-SONIC TO SUPERSONIC (0.85-1.6 MACH, TO MACH 2.3) @AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well if we go up to Mach 2.5 then Indian Jets can't turn around make a run for cover
Some of the Chinese Twin Engine crafts are used for intercept these birds are quite fast

top speed is not important, ACCELERATION AND MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN TOP SPEED, THERE IS A TRADE OFF B/W SPEED AND MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY, IF YOU WANT SPEED LIKE SR-71, MIG-25/31,F-15 THAN FORGET MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY, AND IF YOU WANT TO MANEUVERABLE/AGILE JET THAN BEST SPEED FOR MANEUVERABLE/AGILE JETS IS TRANS-SONIC TO SUPERSONIC (0.85-1.6 MACH, TO MACH 2.3) @AZADPAKISTAN2009

Why not, are we suppose to fly Sub Mach 2.0 Craft for next 30 years nothing wrong to demand high performance

top speed is not important, ACCELERATION AND MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN TOP SPEED, THERE IS A TRADE OFF B/W SPEED AND MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY, IF YOU WANT SPEED LIKE SR-71, MIG-25/31,F-15 THAN FORGET MANEUVERABILITY/AGILITY, AND IF YOU WANT TO MANEUVERABLE/AGILE JET THAN BEST SPEED FOR MANEUVERABLE/AGILE JETS IS TRANS-SONIC TO SUPERSONIC (0.85-1.6 MACH, TO MACH 2.3) @AZADPAKISTAN2009