Fatima Bhutto: Nation on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

[krash]

Oh, I'm talking about how it works in practice, not in theory or the distant past. Not only does salmon108 seek vengeance against the family, but right here on PDF is where I learned that in the P.A.'s offensive in Swat they targeted not just the terrorists but the relatives of those who sheltered them link. And in Iraq the kids of those wanted by the authorities were executed under Saddam link and arrested under the current Iraqi regime. link So you can see where my generalization comes from.

Yeah your right. One can easily generalize the 1.6 biliion muslims with three examples. The first: A layman whos speaking out of anger and not acting upon it. The second: A military force hell bent on subduing terrorist uprisings and that too with unconfirmed reports. And the third: A dictator who was acknowledgedly an american puppet and more hated and despised by his own nation and the Muslim world than anyone....(all the examples not holding any wait with regards to Islam, people who happened to be Muslims and are by no means representatives of Islam except on the very personal level)....For the crimes of one charge everyone else who is associated with him........Oh wait! Isnt this exactly why you were criticizing Salaman108?.......woooopssss........

And then theres the matter of Israeli forces killing innocent children everyday by the dozens, taking their land and still killing them more, while all the while being staunchly supported, backed and defended by the Israeli government and more importantly the Jewish population living in Israel (a Jewish theocracy hence an actual representative of Judaism)....Now this is an example, dear Solomon, which does not give refuge to any generalization. Here is indeed the value difference you so desperately wanted.

Now do not derail the thread. Message me if you must. This is my first thread and I want it to go well.

 

[Sinnerman108]

What do you think she knows that she could "come clean" about?


I have some awareness of how bad the Bhuttos were - especially Z.A.B. Yet this seems to be a value difference between Jews and Muslims. The Talmud tells us that when Abraham sent Ishmael (progenitor of the Arabs) away the angels asked G-d why, knowing what evils would ensue, did not G-d invoke the death penalty immediately. G-d's reply was that each individual is judged in his own time and not by his descendants. That's why Jews don't call for "vengeance" upon the progeny of their oppressors, not if they refrain from committing the crimes of their ancestors. Such children are always given the benefit of the doubt. (That's also one of the reasons why Israel tolerates hostile Arab communities within and upon the territories it controls.)

I never claimed religious high ground, or acceptance for wiping her family's blood line.

This is some thing I think should be done, and I am prepared to go to hell for it.

As for the rest of the statement you have made; well you had to do that because that theory has to sit in accord with the rest of your outlook.

Jews ( People of Israel - Bani Israel ) were the most loved people of God.
God gave them many prophets, More than other nations.
God gave them open miracles, so they could see and believe.

YET, when Moses left for the mountain to get the commandments, Bani Israel crafted a cow to worship that cow.
Once that Sin was repaid and it was paid with a LOT of blood ....

God gave Bani Israel food from heaven, when they had nothing.

God gave Bani Israel orders NOT to catch fish on some days, YET they cleverly did so and dug up holes.

The reason I am quoting history, is to develop a trend.
A Trend of forgiveness, Bani Israel HAD to make forgiveness very very cheap, in order to wash clean what it has been doing, and the things it does today.

Hope you understand, else you are most welcome to debate ( it's long due anyway ... )

 

[Sinnerman108]

Apparently it is going to be futile to argue with you as to how appalling is the notion of punishing people for anyone else's doings.......Im sure their are many amongst us whose forefathers had committed wrong........

Furthermore it is strange how we consider expats as traitors and betrayers.....We disregard what they have to say irrespective of the fact that what they are saying might actually help us.....On top of that what have these noble fellows of our done that are still living here? If these expats arent directly involved with the country through their presence well at least they arent eating away at it either, like so many of our dear fellows around us are doing. Claiming that expats are emotionally unconnected to their homelands is folly. We, sir, cannot judge their sincerity towards their country.

I suggest that you try to argue based on reason and facts.
I am my self an expat; so half of your arguments can be nullified anyway.

The basis of my reasoning was that Bhutto is not an ordinary expat, her mother is not even an expat she is a foreigner.

There is nothing wrong with being an expat, BUT if Fatima Bhutto has been raised and fed money, that her feudal daddy and grand daddy
have stolen from Pakistan; and the fact that she claims LOVE for pakistan without her or most of her family choosing to live in Pakistan is
just plain hypocrisy.

Why doesn't the bhutto clan FREE the people of sindh ?
Why don't they relinquish control of some land , some business , and let the ordinary poor people breath ?

THAT is my basis of hate and non acceptance.

If the punishment from stealing from one person is cutting of one hand, then stealing from 180 million people means their bodies must be divided in as many parts.

 

[Last Hope]

She is hot.

Because of people like you owning ugly thoughts of decent girls, the law of Hijab was invented. Have some shme, she is not you munni or sheila, who sell themelves but this girl seems decent.

On topic. What ever she has said, was pretty decent and positive thinking. We must not think the way, she is a Bhutto so ignore her words. That is one side of a coin, after elections comming up and PPP having poor image, with Imran Khan having a lot of fans, they need someone to speak the same way he does. But looking on other side of coin, not al are same. She is a writer and said things about her uncle too.

 

[Solomon2]

A dictator who was acknowledgedly an american puppet...Israeli forces killing innocent children everyday by the dozens, taking their land and still killing them more -

I don't deal in falsehood-based conspiracy fantasies. Which is Fatima's point about Pakistanis and how they are close to - she didn't quite say experiencing right now - their nervous breakdown.

 

[Solomon2]

I never claimed religious high ground, or acceptance for wiping her family's blood line.This is some thing I think should be done, and I am prepared to go to hell for it.

You think only the perpetrator is guilty of a crime, not just those who put him up to it? No wonder suicide terror is popular in Pakistan!

As for the rest of the statement you have made; well you had to do that because that theory has to sit in accord with the rest of your outlook.

No nation more than Israel engages in disputes among itself about what actions it takes are morally correct. No Arab nation can do that because (as Lawrence of Arabia put it) "Arabs don't do doubt." Many Pakistanis, schooled by the Arab Muslim curriculum, seem to possess the same failing.

The reason I am quoting history, is to develop a trend. A Trend of forgiveness, Bani Israel HAD to make forgiveness very very cheap, in order to wash clean what it has been doing, and the things it does today. Hope you understand, else you are most welcome to debate

Regardless of what I think of this "Bani Israel" history, is it on your mind because you think this it applies to Pakistanis today? That Pakistan sest the bar of forgiveness low "in order to wash clean what it has been doing, and the things it does today?"

 

[krash]

I don't deal in falsehood-based conspiracy fantasies. Which is Fatima's point about Pakistanis and how they are close to - she didn't quite say experiencing right now - their nervous breakdown.

LOL Sadam said so himself.

Mods please clean the off topic posts from the thread........

 

[Solomon2]

LOL Sadam said so himself.

1) Provide exact quote and link to source.
2) I don't accept self-incriminating testimony without additional evidence.

 

[Karachiite]

Because of people like you owning ugly thoughts of decent girls, the law of Hijab was invented. Have some shme, she is not you munni or sheila, who sell themelves but this girl seems decent.

She was going out with George Clooney by the way. I think you extremist conservative minded people believe it is indecent for girls to have boyfriends. Anyways she speaks the truth and is an amazing person.

 

[Awesome]

If she was an ordinary citizen,
sure she can love her daddy all she wants.
and if her daddy was a vagabond, then she shall face the wrath of the society,

JUST LIKE ORDINARY CITIZENS !

She was born to a foreign woman, who came to Pakistan, without hardly being able to speak the language
and launched a political party.

It was after her political failure, that they decided " we are not going to do politics; we will only criticize " .

She can't help not being ordinary, its another silly demand of her. So you think its right that in our culture ORDINARY CITIZENS have to face the wrath of society because their dad wasn't nice? I think such a society needs fixing not the extraordinary person. Their political failings in a society where the political successes are accorded to Zardari, Sharif and the scores of military demigods are quite telling about their actual worth. However still its an absolute fact that Fatima Bhutto, herself, hasn't at all even tried.

It's no big deal to fail in politics in Pakistan. The successes in politics in Pakistan would be termed as colossal failures everywhere else.

 

[MadDog]

No nation more than Israel engages in disputes among itself about what actions it takes are morally correct. No Arab nation can do that because (as Lawrence of Arabia put it) "Arabs don't do doubt." Many Pakistanis, schooled by the Arab Muslim curriculum, seem to possess the same failing."

@ solomon...i dont know which arab muslim curriculum u r talking about...i did my basic and secondary education in Pakistan....we were given each and every historical fact including the military crackdowns of 1971 in Bangladesh...in my opinion the current curriculum is pretty impressive...as far as arabic is concerned it is not a course in any of the schools in Pakistan....the only religous course which we had at school was Islamic studies...and these religous courses are taught every where...in many christian schools in Pakistan...christianity is also taught.

I request Solomon to not to spew venom on this forum !!!!

 

[Awesome]

"Arabs don't do doubt." Many Pakistanis, schooled by the Arab Muslim curriculum, seem to possess the same failing

This forum, the varying opinions, the politics of every other party, they are in themselves a testament that perhaps no other nation debates within itself than Pakistan. However things like the Patriot Act do showcase who actually mistakes dissent for disloyalty regardless of doubt.

 

[punit]

Because of people like you owning ugly thoughts of decent girls, the law of Hijab was invented. Have some shme, she is not you munni or sheila, who sell themelves but this girl seems decent.

opps .. IMO she willl look hotter in HIjab

 

[F-16_Falcon]

My family is a long time supporter of PPP. Bhuttos are real patriot not Zardari. I have hope in bilawal.

 

[DV RULES]

I never really understood hating on her for loving her father... You love your father unconditionally, so can she. If for nothing else she should be given major props for realizing Pakistan's problem is a fundamental lack of justice. It's a pity she has no interest in running in politics only commenting upon it, she can get a lot of support just by showing interest.

Nobody hating him on loving her father & every one has right to pass comments over current situation as we all in PDF aslo doing the same thing but where i don't like that Pakistan again will come under any type of Bilawal or Fatima. Let Pakistan free from idiotic type generation wise rulers.