Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[Asian.Century]

As for the sale of JF 17 s, pakistan needs to stop talking about it---stop marketing like going to every country, Put a veil on the program for awhile. The Pakistan Air Force is NOT, means NOT qualified to do marketing and selling of an aircraft. It is a sale and market company....it must hire a proper Pakistan national marketing company to do the job.

That said, there are plenty of countries out there that do not have the option to go and simply buy used F-16s, yet they operate F-7s and other old fighters. MiG-29 and Su-30 may be an option for quite a few of them, but I doubt either is as accessible (financially and politically) as JF-17. There's something stopping these air forces from getting JF-17 and it's not likely the fighter itself or Pakistan, but other powers.

Countries such as Nigeria, Albania, Bangladesh, etc are like Pakistan in that their rulers don't care about vital national interests, they're just looking to make a quick buck from aid and shady investment. These governments are basically sell-outs and could care less about the needs of their armed forces, the pockets of generals notwithstanding.

The ones enabling that aid and investment are governments - e.g. America - that do not want systems such as JF-17 prolific and operated globally. Let alone the possibility of a BVR and precision-strike platform being everywhere, imagine the thought of the Chinese deepening their military-to-military relations across Africa, the Balkans, Asia, etc. Heck imagine if Pakistani officers end up in half as many places as the Chinese...

Some of these air forces might have prepared the papers for evaluating JF-17, but when the papers went up the chain, they got "lost" (i.e. shredded).

Back to the topic of used F-16s, I think the PAF is actively aiming to build a fleet of 100+ F-16A/Bs of various types (OCU, ADF and MLU). I'm interested in seeing how F-16C/Ds go. In 2005 (pre-earthquake) the PAF intended to acquire as many as 55-75 new F-16C/Ds, it'd be interesting to see if they can reach that point. Of course, new F-16s are largely out of the question, but used F-16C/Ds are possible, and with CCIP as well as new upgrades (e.g. AESA), these might be very potent.

It is a must all the Mirages, F16s and JF17s must have AESA radars as minimum levels.

JF17 Thunder is turning out to be one great potent, reliable and modern multi-role fighter aircraft and the work of development and research on it must continue on, vigorously.

 

[The SC]

Pakistan Begins Producing Block-II JF-17 Aircraft
The Block-II variant of the JF-17s entered production recently, with more advanced weapon systems and avionics.

According to reports by DefenseNews and DefenseTalk, Pakistan launched production of the Block-II JF-17 combat aircraft at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex near Islamabad. The Diplomat reported earlier this year that Pakistan expected to begin exporting the JF-17 in 2014; the beginning of production last week is set to keep it on track to meet that deadline.

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has already produced 50 older, less-advanced Block-I JF-17s for the Pakistan air force. The newer Block-II variants possess more advanced weapons systems and avionics. The JF-17s are low-cost multirole single engine fighters jointly developed between Pakistan and China. China refers to the JF-17 as the FC-1 Xiaolong.

Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif visited the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex last week for “briefings on the exports of the Pakistan Air Force’s aircraft, the JF-17 Thunder,” according to a report by The Tribune. The event was intended to inaugurate the beginning of the production of the Block-II JF-17s and was attended by Chinese delegates and the Pakistan air force. Sharif said the JF-17 project would “expand the friendship between China and Pakistan.”

Pakistan’s air force intends the JF-17 to replace its aging Dassault Mirage-III/5 and Chengdu F-7P aircraft. The first batch of JF-17s replaced the Nanchang A-5 Fantan attack aircraft, according to DefenseNews.

The JF-17s could be a commercial coup for China and Pakistan. There is a major cadre of countries interested in importing the aircraft, which is appealing given its low price and performance. A 2010 report indicates a long list of potential buyers including Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Congo, Egypt, Indonesia (which has already signed an agreement with Pakistan), Iran, Nigeria, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Turkey, Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

Air Marshal Sohail Gul Khan of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has also reiterated the interest earlier this year: “We’ve been getting inquiries and expressions of interest for the JF-17 Thunder from many countries in the Middle East, Africa and from as far as South America.”

Regardless, Pakistan remains the only country to have formally purchased the JF-17 for use in its air force so far. The JF-17 has begun to enter Pakistan’s strategic community as an important asset. Usman Shabbir, an analyst of the Pakistan Military Consortium, described the value added by the Block-II JF-17s for Pakistan’s air defense capabilities. According to Shabbir, 50 JF-17s “are enough to form three squadrons with a typical squadron strength of 16 aircraft.” He adds, “From early 2014 the first Block-II will rollout. Block-II has no airframe changes other than the addition of [an in-flight refuelling probe] which would later also be refitted to all Block-I aircraft. Most of the improvements are in radar and avionics.”

Pakistan Begins Producing Block-II JF-17 Aircraft | The Diplomat

 

[That Guy]

Pakistan Begins Producing Block-II JF-17 Aircraft
The Block-II variant of the JF-17s entered production recently, with more advanced weapon systems and avionics.

According to reports by DefenseNews and DefenseTalk, Pakistan launched production of the Block-II JF-17 combat aircraft at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex near Islamabad. The Diplomat reported earlier this year that Pakistan expected to begin exporting the JF-17 in 2014; the beginning of production last week is set to keep it on track to meet that deadline.

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has already produced 50 older, less-advanced Block-I JF-17s for the Pakistan air force. The newer Block-II variants possess more advanced weapons systems and avionics. The JF-17s are low-cost multirole single engine fighters jointly developed between Pakistan and China. China refers to the JF-17 as the FC-1 Xiaolong.

Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif visited the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex last week for “briefings on the exports of the Pakistan Air Force’s aircraft, the JF-17 Thunder,” according to a report by The Tribune. The event was intended to inaugurate the beginning of the production of the Block-II JF-17s and was attended by Chinese delegates and the Pakistan air force. Sharif said the JF-17 project would “expand the friendship between China and Pakistan.”

Pakistan’s air force intends the JF-17 to replace its aging Dassault Mirage-III/5 and Chengdu F-7P aircraft. The first batch of JF-17s replaced the Nanchang A-5 Fantan attack aircraft, according to DefenseNews.

The JF-17s could be a commercial coup for China and Pakistan. There is a major cadre of countries interested in importing the aircraft, which is appealing given its low price and performance. A 2010 report indicates a long list of potential buyers including Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Congo, Egypt, Indonesia (which has already signed an agreement with Pakistan), Iran, Nigeria, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Turkey, Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

Air Marshal Sohail Gul Khan of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has also reiterated the interest earlier this year: “We’ve been getting inquiries and expressions of interest for the JF-17 Thunder from many countries in the Middle East, Africa and from as far as South America.”

Regardless, Pakistan remains the only country to have formally purchased the JF-17 for use in its air force so far. The JF-17 has begun to enter Pakistan’s strategic community as an important asset. Usman Shabbir, an analyst of the Pakistan Military Consortium, described the value added by the Block-II JF-17s for Pakistan’s air defense capabilities. According to Shabbir, 50 JF-17s “are enough to form three squadrons with a typical squadron strength of 16 aircraft.” He adds, “From early 2014 the first Block-II will rollout. Block-II has no airframe changes other than the addition of [an in-flight refuelling probe] which would later also be refitted to all Block-I aircraft. Most of the improvements are in radar and avionics.”

Pakistan Begins Producing Block-II JF-17 Aircraft | The Diplomat

WAIT wait wait wait, that picture, is it just me, or does the Thunder look like it has CFTs?

Also, this is old news.

 

[AUz]

WAIT wait wait wait, that picture, is it just me, or does the Thunder look like it has CFTs?

Also, this is old news.

Photoshoped.

 

[The SC]

The Block II JF-17 is believed to have AESA radars similar to those observed on the J-10B. The integrated avionics, sensors and EW suite is entirely Chinese and is believed to be at the level of Europes best planes. The AESA radar is a slightly smaller version of the one being utilized for the J-10B. The radar is highly sophisticated and its installation is beyond the present capacity at PAC Kamra and will thus require the aircraft to take a trip to Nanjing, China.

The Block II will be the standard version to be used in the PAF with the older Block Is to be retired after the end of production for the first 150 aircraft. This suggests that the structural changes needed to convert the Block Is to Block II standard are significant, suggesting considerable changes to the revised edition. The following are believed to be some of the key changes:

1. AESA radar

2. Comprehensive upgrades for low RCS profile including cockpit glass, RAM paint, refined structure, completely new nose structure for AESA, significant increase in the use of composites and retractable refueling probe.

3. Awaited integration of A-Darter missiles from Brazil / South Africa with HOBS capability and Brazilian HMS.

4. The BVR missile is the SD-10B which has been found more than a match for the AMRAAM-120 C5s. An unknown Meteor class missile is in the works beyond the SD-10Bs.
A significant export order has been secured and an entire squadron is being dedicated for training and familiarization of foreign pilots (Source: Eagle Hannan, Pakdef).

Contrary to conflicting reports in the media, this writer believes that the order for the FC-20s were finalized and that this order has increased to 58 planes. Given the recent crisis post-Abbottabad, the PAF is being beefed up in a hurry and the FC-20s will play a critical role in the defence of the Western sector. Given the nature of the mountainous terrain and the inability to use the F-16s, these platforms along with the JF-17 will prove to be of significant deterrence value. China is believed to be sacrificing its own production requirements to meet PAF's needs in a hurry and unbelievable financial terms appear to have been extended.

These FC-20s are a highly lethal version of the original and incorporate AESA radars, a high degree of composite use, low observability features and an advanced integrated avionics suite. The wide HUD visible on the J-11s are also believed to have been utilized. In Eagle Hannan's recent update, he notes that the wings have been modified and include over 50% composite use. He also makes the surprising claim that the canard fore-planes have been modified. Both these factors indicate a significant structural and aerodynamic revamp that would require significant changes even in the FBW.Such a revamp was already suspected given the canted nose and the DSI bump.

The same source also indicates that the plane (FC-20) has been praised by pilots and capable of incredible maneuvers including the Cobra so famously performed by the FLANKERs. He notes that FC-20 not only performs this maneuver but also performs it better, recovering significantly faster. While this maneuver is not of great military importance, the maneuverability and Fly-By-Wire (FBW) maturity this indicates, suggest that the FC-20 is a well-evolved and lethal machine.

Eagle Hannan also indicates that the Pakistan Navy is interested in the J-11Bs with Russian engines. This appears to be counter-intuitive given the sensitive nature of Russia's copyright relations with China. However, it is possible that Pakistan may attempt to placate this sensitivity by buying Russian engines and paying royalties. It is also possible that Russia is smarting from India's recent rejection of Russian military gear and move towards Western sources. These all make for a great deal of controversy and are likely to keep arm-chair generals and military analysts busy in the foreseeable future.What is clear is that Pakistan and the PAF will get a significant boost, in fact a major leap in capabilities in the next 12-24 months.

JF-17 Block II, A Final Thunder & The FC-20 | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

 

[That Guy]

Photoshoped.

Right, that would explain why it said photoshop on the picture.

I really gotta look at picture more closely, before commenting on them.

@The SC stop posting old news.

 

[The SC]

Right, that would explain why it said photoshop on the picture.

I really gotta look at picture more closely, before commenting on them.

@The SC stop posting old news.

People seem to forget quite easily and engage in 20 or more pages of off topic matters, so I am just trying to get back to the technical details, and see if anyone has something new, so we can have a better and clearer look at the topic, not a confused one.

The Photo of the J-17 Thunder Block ii does not seem to be photoshoped, since it has the areal refueling too which is part of the specs of the block ii, even if it was photoshoped it depicts the right specs.

 

[MastanKhan]

Really?

This whole forum is filled with misconceptions, mistakes, and fantasies. There's only a handful of people on this forum who actually know what they are talking about and I'm not one of them, but I do have some knowledge which I can share.



Any engagement beyond 20 nautical miles is beyond visual range. Any missile that can target and fire upon a target at 20 nautical miles or beyond is a beyond visual range air to air missile, which Egyptian F-16's carry (AIM-7 variants).

Whether a missile uses a semi active radar or an active radar doesn't change the nature of the engagement nor does the missiles range (as long as its above 20 nautical miles that is).



Thanks for sharing totally irrelevant (and somewhat flawed) information.



That would be true if they were fighting on paper without combined arms. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that in real life, there are multiple considerations to take into account e.g fighter aspect, altitude, speed, electronic jamming and countermeasure from jets, AWACs, and/or land based assets, air defence, etc. etc. etc.

The Egyptian Armed Forces relies on its Air Defence (primarily) to defend its skies and its backed up by the Egyptian Air Force, we still employ eastern/Soviet tactics in some areas and this is one of them. We know the IAF is conventionally superior and thus we must use asymmetric tactics.

Have a nice day.

Sir,

I missed your post-----egypt can only talk about using whatever tactics----but it is woefully incompetent---and regardless of what the combined tactics are---it still has to prove that it is a fighting machine----AIM-7 is an old and obsolete missile .

When F22 is mentioned----all other electronic warfare packages and every other support item is already taken into consideration by default----.

Meaning whenever F22 is discussed every item that supports this aircraft during an air dominance mission is there.

Same thing for israeli air superiority----when capability of its air craft is discussed---the support group is always considered by default----. Thank you.

 

[DrWatson775]

The Block II .....

Only structural change in Block II is fixed IFR. "Stealthy" features and RAM paint unlikely.
And no AESA yet.

 

[SQ8]

The Block II JF-17 is believed to have AESA radars similar to those observed on the J-10B. The integrated avionics, sensors and EW suite is entirely Chinese and is believed to be at the level of Europes best planes. The AESA radar is a slightly smaller version of the one being utilized for the J-10B. The radar is highly sophisticated and its installation is beyond the present capacity at PAC Kamra and will thus require the aircraft to take a trip to Nanjing, China.

The Block II will be the standard version to be used in the PAF with the older Block Is to be retired after the end of production for the first 150 aircraft. This suggests that the structural changes needed to convert the Block Is to Block II standard are significant, suggesting considerable changes to the revised edition. The following are believed to be some of the key changes:

1. AESA radar

2. Comprehensive upgrades for low RCS profile including cockpit glass, RAM paint, refined structure, completely new nose structure for AESA, significant increase in the use of composites and retractable refueling probe.

3. Awaited integration of A-Darter missiles from Brazil / South Africa with HOBS capability and Brazilian HMS.

4. The BVR missile is the SD-10B which has been found more than a match for the AMRAAM-120 C5s. An unknown Meteor class missile is in the works beyond the SD-10Bs.
A significant export order has been secured and an entire squadron is being dedicated for training and familiarization of foreign pilots (Source: Eagle Hannan, Pakdef).

Contrary to conflicting reports in the media, this writer believes that the order for the FC-20s were finalized and that this order has increased to 58 planes. Given the recent crisis post-Abbottabad, the PAF is being beefed up in a hurry and the FC-20s will play a critical role in the defence of the Western sector. Given the nature of the mountainous terrain and the inability to use the F-16s, these platforms along with the JF-17 will prove to be of significant deterrence value. China is believed to be sacrificing its own production requirements to meet PAF's needs in a hurry and unbelievable financial terms appear to have been extended.

These FC-20s are a highly lethal version of the original and incorporate AESA radars, a high degree of composite use, low observability features and an advanced integrated avionics suite. The wide HUD visible on the J-11s are also believed to have been utilized. In Eagle Hannan's recent update, he notes that the wings have been modified and include over 50% composite use. He also makes the surprising claim that the canard fore-planes have been modified. Both these factors indicate a significant structural and aerodynamic revamp that would require significant changes even in the FBW.Such a revamp was already suspected given the canted nose and the DSI bump.

The same source also indicates that the plane (FC-20) has been praised by pilots and capable of incredible maneuvers including the Cobra so famously performed by the FLANKERs. He notes that FC-20 not only performs this maneuver but also performs it better, recovering significantly faster. While this maneuver is not of great military importance, the maneuverability and Fly-By-Wire (FBW) maturity this indicates, suggest that the FC-20 is a well-evolved and lethal machine.

Eagle Hannan also indicates that the Pakistan Navy is interested in the J-11Bs with Russian engines. This appears to be counter-intuitive given the sensitive nature of Russia's copyright relations with China. However, it is possible that Pakistan may attempt to placate this sensitivity by buying Russian engines and paying royalties. It is also possible that Russia is smarting from India's recent rejection of Russian military gear and move towards Western sources. These all make for a great deal of controversy and are likely to keep arm-chair generals and military analysts busy in the foreseeable future.What is clear is that Pakistan and the PAF will get a significant boost, in fact a major leap in capabilities in the next 12-24 months.

JF-17 Block II, A Final Thunder & The FC-20 | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

Very interesting work of fiction.

 

[[--Leo--]]

we are making the briyani since 2009 and still it is not ready yet

 

[satishkumarcsc]

we are making the briyani since 2009 and still it is not ready yet

Designing and manufacturing or upgrading an aircraft is called 'growth' and not cooking.

Like how the chicken comes from the egg. The egg hatches to become a chick and grows into a chicken to lay more eggs.

The JF 17 right now is like a chick and the upgradations are focused to make it into a full fledged chicken.

The eggs laid by the JF 17 will hatch into newer designs and concepts.

 

[[--Leo--]]

Designing and manufacturing or upgrading an aircraft is called 'growth' and not cooking.

Like how the chicken comes from the egg. The egg hatches to become a chick and grows into a chicken to lay more eggs.

The JF 17 right now is like a chick and the upgradations are focused to make it into a full fledged chicken.

The eggs laid by the JF 17 will hatch into newer designs and concepts.

we are making here is totally different thing that they are doing for upgrade...thats what i call briyani i hope u understood. people came here post that we are getting AESA ram caoting etc etc nothing happening like that in block 2 it will be out soon we will see it

 

[alibaz]

The Block II JF-17 is believed to have AESA radars similar to those observed on the J-10B. The integrated avionics, sensors and EW suite is entirely Chinese and is believed to be at the level of Europes best planes. The AESA radar is a slightly smaller version of the one being utilized for the J-10B. The radar is highly sophisticated and its installation is beyond the present capacity at PAC Kamra and will thus require the aircraft to take a trip to Nanjing, China.

The Block II will be the standard version to be used in the PAF with the older Block Is to be retired after the end of production for the first 150 aircraft. This suggests that the structural changes needed to convert the Block Is to Block II standard are significant, suggesting considerable changes to the revised edition. The following are believed to be some of the key changes:

1. AESA radar

2. Comprehensive upgrades for low RCS profile including cockpit glass, RAM paint, refined structure, completely new nose structure for AESA, significant increase in the use of composites and retractable refueling probe.

3. Awaited integration of A-Darter missiles from Brazil / South Africa with HOBS capability and Brazilian HMS.

4. The BVR missile is the SD-10B which has been found more than a match for the AMRAAM-120 C5s. An unknown Meteor class missile is in the works beyond the SD-10Bs.
A significant export order has been secured and an entire squadron is being dedicated for training and familiarization of foreign pilots (Source: Eagle Hannan, Pakdef).

Contrary to conflicting reports in the media, this writer believes that the order for the FC-20s were finalized and that this order has increased to 58 planes. Given the recent crisis post-Abbottabad, the PAF is being beefed up in a hurry and the FC-20s will play a critical role in the defence of the Western sector. Given the nature of the mountainous terrain and the inability to use the F-16s, these platforms along with the JF-17 will prove to be of significant deterrence value. China is believed to be sacrificing its own production requirements to meet PAF's needs in a hurry and unbelievable financial terms appear to have been extended.

These FC-20s are a highly lethal version of the original and incorporate AESA radars, a high degree of composite use, low observability features and an advanced integrated avionics suite. The wide HUD visible on the J-11s are also believed to have been utilized. In Eagle Hannan's recent update, he notes that the wings have been modified and include over 50% composite use. He also makes the surprising claim that the canard fore-planes have been modified. Both these factors indicate a significant structural and aerodynamic revamp that would require significant changes even in the FBW.Such a revamp was already suspected given the canted nose and the DSI bump.

The same source also indicates that the plane (FC-20) has been praised by pilots and capable of incredible maneuvers including the Cobra so famously performed by the FLANKERs. He notes that FC-20 not only performs this maneuver but also performs it better, recovering significantly faster. While this maneuver is not of great military importance, the maneuverability and Fly-By-Wire (FBW) maturity this indicates, suggest that the FC-20 is a well-evolved and lethal machine.

Eagle Hannan also indicates that the Pakistan Navy is interested in the J-11Bs with Russian engines. This appears to be counter-intuitive given the sensitive nature of Russia's copyright relations with China. However, it is possible that Pakistan may attempt to placate this sensitivity by buying Russian engines and paying royalties. It is also possible that Russia is smarting from India's recent rejection of Russian military gear and move towards Western sources. These all make for a great deal of controversy and are likely to keep arm-chair generals and military analysts busy in the foreseeable future.What is clear is that Pakistan and the PAF will get a significant boost, in fact a major leap in capabilities in the next 12-24 months.

JF-17 Block II, A Final Thunder & The FC-20 | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

And then the writer woke up otherwise few more capabilities could have been added.

 

[MastanKhan]

we are making the briyani since 2009 and still it is not ready yet

Hi,

I told you guys many a years ago---it takes a minimum of 8---10 years to get going.