Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[Frogman]

Hi,

Egypt do not have quality BVR capable aircraft or any at all for that matter.

Ok. Would you be kind enough to explain what a 'quality BVR capable aircraft' is and how many of them the Pakistani Air force or any nations that border Egypt have?

These uses semi active radar guidance, that is the missile used the radiation produced by the launching aircraft to guide it to the target.

Didn't say otherwise.

The latest generation of BVR missiles use a combination of semi active and active radar which EAF lacks good against tiny poor african nations.

Didn't say it was inadequate or adequate, that decision is the EAF's. My point was addressing whether Egypt's F-16's are capable of engaging in BVR battles. BVRAAM isn't a deal clincher especially when you take into account kill probabilities from certain ranges and the orientation of the OPFOR jet. All I'm doing is addressing misconceptions.

Nowadays

No. The definitions of WVR or BVR engagements have not changed since their conception.

BVR ability means using active radar guidance missile, not just a range of >37km

Nonsense, any engagement beyond the range of 37km is beyond visual range. Whether a semi-active RGM or a active RGM is used is irrelevant.

So if the F-16 can not use AIM-120, then it can not be regard as with BVR ability

Just a proposition for you....

Say a USAF pilot in a fighter jet is in an engagement with an OPFOR jet and said OPFOR jet 'locks on' to the USAF's pilots jet with an AIM-7 (or a derivative), what does the pilot report back on the radio?

Does he report he is in contact with an OPFOR jet within visual range of him? No he doesn't, why? because its not within visual range, he simply can not see it. So what does he report? a medium visual range engagement? there's no such thing. Puzzling! if only there was a term for engagements in the air beyond the pilots visual range, do you know of one!?

Sarcasm, what a beautiful invention

 

[Luftwaffe]

Didn't say it was inadequate or adequate, that decision is the EAF's. My point was addressing whether Egypt's F-16's are capable of engaging in BVR battles. BVRAAM isn't a deal clincher especially when you take into account kill probabilities from certain ranges and the orientation of the OPFOR jet. All I'm doing is addressing misconceptions.

semi active BVR missiles like AIM-7M/P are being phased out in favor of active AIM-120 variants yet many of them will still be in service but I believe with many F-35s is coming years I don't see AIM-7M/P serving by 2020 and beyond because the use of stealth aircraft is spot, fire and forget. Egypt F-16s are capable but the opponents most likely would have active radar guidance missiles that is where EAF is at disadvantage say vs israelis.

Turkey, israel and now Jordan all have AMRAAMs apart from the poor african nations the rest have AMRAAMs inventory even syrian AF and ethiopians have russian medium range active BVR missiles.

The decision is well not Egypts' but they are told you won't get AMRAAMs despite that EAF went for 20 F-16 block 52s a bad deal I guess over the top those F-16s are not coming due to current conditions in Egypt.

Anyway i'll end this here not to derail Thread further.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Pakistan should sell JF17 Blk 2; to Bangladeshi airforce.... that would be a good development!

Why ?

Tejas failed testing ?

Im sure if you remember to take "aarti" of the plane, and put a picture or two of those well known in Hindu-stan the deal will go through.

 

[Bilal.]

@Frogman, I think you got the wrong impression that people are ridiculing Egypt's armed forces. That is not the case my friend, they are actually discussing how we can help our Egyptian allies by providing them platform which has been denied to Egypt wrongfully. If we (and China) can help it would be a win win situation for all of us

 

[Sinnerman108]

@Frogman, I think you got the wrong impression that people are ridiculing Egypt's armed forces. That is not the case my friend, they are actually discussing how we can help our Egyptian allies by providing them platform which has been denied to Egypt wrongfully. If we (and China) can help it would be a win win situation for all of us

@Frogman
What Bilal says is correct.
We can not understand why western aircraft are purchased a a much higher cost, plus even higher O&M, while we can all get together and make industry for our own self.

Whereby we will control the technology, with no bugs from anyone.

 

[Frogman]

I think you got the wrong impression that people are ridiculing Egypt's armed forces.

Nope, I generally wouldn't respond to ridicule or trolling. What I'm trying to do is dispel common misconceptions about the Egyptian Armed Forces or other armed forces in general.

That is not the case my friend, they are actually discussing how we can help our Egyptian allies by providing them platform which has been denied to Egypt wrongfully. If we (and China) can help it would be a win win situation for all of us

Cool.

 

[Kompromat]

It depends if BD wants it.

 

[khanasifm]

PAC announces start of JF-17 Block 2 construction - IHS Jane's 360

 

[Kompromat]

PAF to brief PM on JF-17 export today

@Frogman

Forget everything else, if you had a choice to buy from a western source or from Pakistan which one would you pick?

With Pakistan you have a 'clean chit' relationship. Apart from nukes we'll sell you anything, without strings and without bugs.

With Thunders, if you choose to buy them,you'll get the level of transfered technology no other supplier would be willing to commit to.

For us, its not only about business with Egypt but also about defense of Egypt and building stronger, strategic relations, with our brothers in a distant land.

As salman said, 'why not build our own'?

 

[Luftwaffe]

@Frogman
What Bilal says is correct.
We can not understand why western aircraft are purchased a a much higher cost, plus even higher O&M, while we can all get together and make industry for our own self.

Well egyptians are in talks with russians about possible Mig-29s with much needed R-77 and R-27AE, Pakistan-China will have to work hard in relations to Thunders unless you offer them a lucrative deal of Thunders+Chinese AEW&C at a cost that can't be refused.

 

[Nishan_101]

Pakistan should firstly allocate money for the production of:
Super Mushak(about 70-110)
K-8(about 50)
JF-17 Block-II(about 100)

Also for new Basic Trainer R&D on its own, K-8 Block-IIs and JF-17 Block-IIIs....

 

[aliaselin]

Ok. Would you be kind enough to explain what a 'quality BVR capable aircraft' is and how many of them the Pakistani Air force or any nations that border Egypt have?



Didn't say otherwise.



Didn't say it was inadequate or adequate, that decision is the EAF's. My point was addressing whether Egypt's F-16's are capable of engaging in BVR battles. BVRAAM isn't a deal clincher especially when you take into account kill probabilities from certain ranges and the orientation of the OPFOR jet. All I'm doing is addressing misconceptions.



No. The definitions of WVR or BVR engagements have not changed since their conception.



Nonsense, any engagement beyond the range of 37km is beyond visual range. Whether a semi-active RGM or a active RGM is used is irrelevant.



Just a proposition for you....

Say a USAF pilot in a fighter jet is in an engagement with an OPFOR jet and said OPFOR jet 'locks on' to the USAF's pilots jet with an AIM-7 (or a derivative), what does the pilot report back on the radio?

Does he report he is in contact with an OPFOR jet within visual range of him? No he doesn't, why? because its not within visual range, he simply can not see it. So what does he report? a medium visual range engagement? there's no such thing. Puzzling! if only there was a term for engagements in the air beyond the pilots visual range, do you know of one!?

Sarcasm, what a beautiful invention

Range of PL-10，the short-range air-to-air missle used by J-20, is ~ 40 km， but still not used for BVR mission. This is 21st century, not the old 1980s, definition has all changed and some materials are out of date.

 

[Dazzler]

Indonesia signed a contract? When? egypt was and still is in talks, their political turmoil is delaying things though..

According to reports by DefenseNews and DefenseTalk, Pakistan launched production of the Block-II JF-17 combat aircraft at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex near Islamabad. The Diplomat reported earlier this year that Pakistan expected to begin exporting the JF-17 in 2014; the beginning of production last week is set to keep it on track to meet that deadline.

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has already produced 50 older, less-advanced Block-I JF-17s for the Pakistan air force. The newer Block-II variants possess more advanced weapons systems and avionics. The JF-17s are low-cost multirole single engine fighters jointly developed between Pakistan and China. China refers to the JF-17 as the FC-1 Xiaolong.

Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif visited the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex last week for “briefings on the exports of the Pakistan Air Force’s aircraft, the JF-17 Thunder,” according to a report by The Tribune. The event was intended to inaugurate the beginning of the production of the Block-II JF-17s and was attended by Chinese delegates and the Pakistan air force. Sharif said the JF-17 project would “expand the friendship between China and Pakistan.”

Pakistan’s air force intends the JF-17 to replace its aging Dassault Mirage-III/5 and Chengdu F-7P aircraft. The first batch of JF-17s replaced the Nanchang A-5 Fantan attack aircraft, according to DefenseNews.

The JF-17s could be a commercial coup for China and Pakistan. There is a major cadre of countries interested in importing the aircraft, which is appealing given its low price and performance. A 2010 report indicates a long list of potential buyers including Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Congo, Egypt, Indonesia (which has already signed an agreement with Pakistan), Iran, Nigeria, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Turkey, Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

Air Marshal Sohail Gul Khan of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has also reiterated the interest earlier this year: “We’ve been getting inquiries and expressions of interest for the JF-17 Thunder from many countries in the Middle East, Africa and from as far as South America.”

Regardless, Pakistan remains the only country to have formally purchased the JF-17 for use in its air force so far. The JF-17 has begun to enter Pakistan’s strategic community as an important asset. Usman Shabbir, an analyst of the Pakistan Military Consortium, described the value added by the Block-II JF-17s for Pakistan’s air defense capabilities. According to Shabbir, 50 JF-17s “are enough to form three squadrons with a typical squadron strength of 16 aircraft.” He adds, “From early 2014 the first Block-II will rollout. Block-II has no airframe changes other than the addition of [an in-flight refuelling probe] which would later also be refitted to all Block-I aircraft. Most of the improvements are in radar and avionics.”

Pakistan Begins Producing Block-II JF-17 Aircraft | The Diplomat

 

[AUz]

@MK, But dont you think most buyers will wait for Pakistan to have a substantial skin in the game (considering China is not yet equipping PLAF with this plane) before committing on a purchase. Specially with the recent noise about RD 93s

Are there any details of what the financial arrangements will be between China and Pakistan on exports considering China owns the IP and Pakistan owns the production?

Pakistan owns 58% rights to JF-17...

Any sale, even if done by China, will benefit us

Why ?

Tejas failed testing ?

Im sure if you remember to take "aarti" of the plane, and put a picture or two of those well known in Hindu-stan the deal will go through.

Sometimes I feel bad for hindus...really.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Sometimes I feel bad for hindus...really.

They're making SU-30MKI at home. They are making radars , sams, satellites, slv's, modern atgms, and what not !!!

bhai jaan apnay giraybaan mai jhanko.