Erdogan demands demilitarisation of East Aegean Islands, threatens operation in Syria

[Foinikas]

Erdogan will go next year. Turkey's entire policy will change, except for Greece.

Greek politics is an issue on which 99 percent of the people agree.

Well Kilijdaroglu and Aksener seem to be as nationalist as Erdogan.

 

[MMM-E]

For decades, it is also known in Greece that the Turk never changes, you give him your hand and he cuts it,

Hypocrisy is character of Greeks

You give Greeks your hand and they cuts it,

Greece unilaterally increased its territorial waters to 6 nautical miles, originally set at 3 miles by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne

the de facto situation it created was ignored by Turkiye due to the positive attitude that dominated relations between the two countries at that time.


Greece had attempted to extend its territorial waters in the Aegean Sea to 12 nautical miles but scuttled the plan after Turkiye declared that such a move would be a casus belli, or cause for war.

 

[MMM-E]

and after two days we had a number of violations in the Aegean.

Greeks have big dreams

Greek territorial waters beyond their present width of 6 miles
a 10-mile national air space over 6 miles of territorial waters and abuse of the flight information region (FIR) responsibility are the main underlying causes of the conflict between Turkiye and Greece in the Aegean

Turkiye never will allow daydreamer Greeks to use a 10-mile national air space over 6 miles of territorial waters

so Turkish F-16s flights over international air space .... keep crying

 

[Akritas]

Greece had attempted to extend its territorial waters in the Aegean Sea to 12 nautical miles but scuttled the plan after Turkiye declared that such a move would be a casus belli, or cause for war.

But it did not do so -for decades- with Italy, Albania, Libya and Egypt, without any casus belli.
Greece just respects the neighbor, he always starts negotiations based on UNCLOS.
So he closed the 12 miles and EEZ with Italy, he is waiting for the situation in Libya to stabilize, with Albania we are going to the Hague as regards the EEZ, with Egypt we have an EEZ agreement.
The only country that threatens, invades, bullying and act as the troublemaker of the region is Turkey.

 

[MMM-E]

Greece just respects the neighbor, he always starts negotiations based on UNCLOS.
So he closed the 12 miles and EEZ with Italy,

There are no many Islands in the Ionian Sea


The balance established in the Aegean Sea by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne

Greek Islands are closer to Turkiye than Greece

if Greece increasing its territorial waters in the Aegean Sea to 12 nautical miles will increase the size of Greek territorial waters, which currently account for 40% of the Aegean Sea, to 70%. As a result, Turkey will have control over less than 10% of the Aegean

stop dreaming and stick to the agreements you signed

 

[Apollon]

There are no many Islands in the Ionian Sea


The balance established in the Aegean Sea by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne

Greek Islands are closer to Turkiye than Greece

if Greece increasing its territorial waters in the Aegean Sea to 12 nautical miles will increase the size of Greek territorial waters, which currently account for 40% of the Aegean Sea, to 70%. As a result, Turkey will have control over less than 10% of the Aegean

stop dreaming and stick to the agreements you signed

What you say about this, we find a 50/50 agreement and in return Turkey agrees to a complete cut of relations. No trade, no travel. No traffic. We do as turkey doesnt exist and turkey does as we dont exist. No threats, no words at all. Just harmonic silence.


Sounds good?

 

[Foinikas]

The demilitarization of Limnos and Samothraki had been abolished by the more recent (1936) Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits. Also, Turkey cannot invoke the militarization of the Dodecanese islands because it was not a party in the Paris Peace Treaty between Italy and the Allies (1947) which provided for that demilitarization. Moreover, the demilitarization provision is not part of a legal regime and Turkey cannot invoke it, including for security reasons. It should be noted that the countries that signed the treaty, the only ones that can invoke it, have not objected.

The Lausanne Treaty leaves no room for doubt, because it affirms the islands’ sovereignty unconditionally, while Turkey’s renunciation of claims on these islands and islets and those not mentioned but lying beyond 3 nautical miles from the Asia Minor coast is explicit. Besides, in the 57 years since it first raised the issue of their demilitarization, Turkey has consented that it is not also challenging their sovereignty.

What’s behind the statements and letters | eKathimerini.com

The Greek-Turkish relationship is back in troubled waters as a mutual promise for calm founders on Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s usual tactic of unproductive confrontation.

www.ekathimerini.com

 

[Beny Karachun]

First of all, if you think you're going to get somewhere by constantly insulting our president, you're wrong, secondly, you think people in Turkey are always asking let fight these guys or something.
I used to follow the developments when I entered this site,now, it makes my nerves go crazy.
I don't know if you really know turkey or if you are like this for propaganda purposes but reality is much different from your head sorry

I don't think I can change anything at all, whether by insulting your president or praising him.
Considering how things go I chose to insult him. Objectively he's constantly making stupid decisions and he's constantly getting reelected because he creates new enemies/renew conflict with old enemies to unite the Turkish people against.

I feel honored to be the first person you responded to after 2 years of being on this site though lol

What you say about this, we find a 50/50 agreement and in return Turkey agrees to a complete cut of relations. No trade, no travel. No traffic. We do as turkey doesnt exist and turkey does as we dont exist. No threats, no words at all. Just harmonic silence.


Sounds good?

Turkey will still be angry at EastMed pipeline plans IMO.

 

[dBSPL]

did it come to Turkey's mind to stand up for its rights 60 years later?


For decades, Turkiye has been trying to find a peaceful and just solution to these unilateral attempts. This issue is not an event that has suddenly come to the fore, on the contrary, it is a problem that has been pushed into the background with the AKP government.

While the Greeks shamelessly cling to all kinds of lies, here's a document pointing out how old the subject is:

The UN Security Council, in its Resolution 395, adopted on August 25, 1976, called on Türkiye and Greece to do everything they could to reduce tensions in the Aegean and asked them to continue direct negotiations on their differences.

The International Court of Justice in its ruling on 11 Sept. 1976, determined the Aegean continental shelf beyond the territorial waters of the two littoral states as"areas in dispute"with respect to which both Türkiye and Greece claim rights of exploration and exploitation. Then Türkiye and Greece signed the 1976 Bern Agreement.

Under the terms of this Agreement, the two governments have, inter alia, assumed the obligation to refrain from any initiative or act concerning the Aegean continental shelf.


This specific obligation was observed by both countries over several years and thus it was possible to avert the dispute concerning the Aegean continental shelf from escalating into tensions and confrontations.

However Greece, who terminated the negotiating process with Turkey in 1981, started seismic and related activities and planned drilling operations in the disputed areas of the Aegean continental shelf in 1981.

These activities which were open violations of the Bern Agreement have formed the main cause of the March 1987crisis between TR and GR.This crisis over drilling beyond territorial waters,was in fact the culmination of unilateral actions perpetrated by Greece as regards the Aegean

This crisis over drilling beyond territorial waters, was in fact the culmination of unilateral actions perpetrated by Greece as regards the Aegean. The crisis was averted and the "Davos Process", leading to meetings between Foreign Ministers and Prime Ministers was initiated.

The process however yielded no tangible results on the major issues, due mainly to Greek insistence that the Agenda of the negotiations could contain no reference to the Aegean issues.

The term Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) emerged after 1982.

BTW,while Greece was unwilling to solve any problems related to the Aegean, it did not comply with any of the international agreements it signed, such as the"Bern Agreement".

With the maps she published, she tries to show Türkiye as if it was not a part of the Aegean until 1970.

So, Greece was strongly opposed to the expansion of its territorial seas until 1970.

In addition,the Map of Seville was prepared in 2003 according to the maximalist claims of the Greeks! If you look at the map, you will see how fair the EEZ areas of other countries are.

The greeks, who say"this map is nonsense"every time we show the Seville Map, which is not officially accepted by the EU, once again showed how unreliable they are by showing the borders of the map in question on the maps they published.

The Greeks, who try to manipulate the concept of the Blue Homeland and criticize the Turks over it, are the side that defends a real and sole revisionism with a map that emerged 20 years ago. The Seville map is a rag with the spirit of ENOSIS.

Türkiye has always been the party that seeks solutions and is patient in the Aegean.

The minimalist and legal "Istanbul Map" prepared within the scope of equity and fair distribution, is the clearest example of this.

Turkish-Greek Conflicts in the Aegean Sea has 4 dynamics:

-Territorial waters
-continental shelf
-FIR line-Airspace
-EGAAYDAK (152 Islands and Islets)
-Armament of the Islands

The Greek regime has declared that it will not recognize the decisions of the ICJ and the Arbitrator on these issues.



Greece either withdraws from all dialogue mechanisms or drags the process to a dead end. By imposing deadlock on Turkiye, it is trying to impose by gathering strength from international hegemons, not the law.

These are unacceptable. While no international agreement, including the Unclos-1982 signed by Greece, accepts such a unilateral declaration and imposition, Greece's search for a fait accompli is very dangerous.

It is not possible to find a country as patient as Turkiye in such a national security problem in the world.

 

[Foinikas]

While the Greeks shamelessly cling to all kinds of lies

according to the maximalist claims of the Greeks!

The Greek regime has declared that it will not recognize the decisions of the ICJ and the Arbitrator on these issues.

Greece either withdraws from all dialogue mechanisms or drags the process to a dead end.

It's like listening to the official AKP government line!

And dBSPL kept telling us he is not pro-Erdogan.

It's so funny how Turks present white for black and black for white. You've got a wolf complaining to the farmer about raising a fence on his farm.

 

[dBSPL]

The demilitarization of Limnos and Samothraki had been abolished by the more recent (1936) Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits. Also, Turkey cannot invoke the militarization of the Dodecanese islands because it was not a party in the Paris Peace Treaty between Italy and the Allies (1947) which provided for that demilitarization. Moreover, the demilitarization provision is not part of a legal regime and Turkey cannot invoke it, including for security reasons. It should be noted that the countries that signed the treaty, the only ones that can invoke it, have not objected.

The Lausanne Treaty leaves no room for doubt, because it affirms the islands’ sovereignty unconditionally, while Turkey’s renunciation of claims on these islands and islets and those not mentioned but lying beyond 3 nautical miles from the Asia Minor coast is explicit. Besides, in the 57 years since it first raised the issue of their demilitarization, Turkey has consented that it is not also challenging their sovereignty.

What’s behind the statements and letters | eKathimerini.com

The Greek-Turkish relationship is back in troubled waters as a mutual promise for calm founders on Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s usual tactic of unproductive confrontation.

www.ekathimerini.com

First of all, there is no article in the Montreux Convention that removes Greece's obligations in the Aegean islands. By interpreting Turkiye's change of authority over the straits, Greece is actually defending something that is not included and is not mentioned in the agreement.

Montreux has a completely different and special status, and the content of the Agreement clearly reveals this special status. It cannot be said that it is related to the islands, it does not cause lawlessness in the Aegean.

The main purpose of the Montreux Convention is to reconcile the requirements and benefits of international maritime trade with these rights, while preserving the sovereign rights of the Republic of Turkey, which is a coastal state. In other words, a new transition regime from the Straits was accepted with Montreux, and the responsibility for the implementation and supervision of this new regime was given to Turkey. Greece cannot interpret an agreement to regulate international trade to arm its islands in the Aegean. This is a fairy tail expectation that is doomed to fail in the international court of justice.

*

Turkiye is not a party to the Paris Agreement, but the conditions for the transfer of the Islands to Greece have been determined by considering Turkiye's security concerns. Therefore, it is Turkiye's most natural right to observe and defend the requirements of this agreement.

Greecet cannot justify violating the transfer terms of this agreement because of the Turkish state is not a party to the agreement. Even the most populist Greek diplomats do not make such a retarded defense, and it is futile to even discuss this.

 

[Foinikas]

Greecet cannot justify violating the transfer terms of this agreement because of the Turkish state is not a party to the agreement. Even the most populist Greek diplomats do not make such a retarded defense, and it is futile to even discuss this.

The international community seems to think we're pretty much justified and have right in our side.

Maybe your government should stop obsessing over tiny Greece and go on adventures in Syria.

 

[Mzizblz]

Note: I edited the first post with the maps in english. Please check them out.

@RescueRanger @Beast @siegecrossbow @jamahir @PakFactor @Sainthood 101 @Brainsucker @Huffal @reflecthofgeismar @jhungary


Why? You think you can't be blockaded? The Straits. That's the point. That's the whole point. They all want the Straits.

Well, Greeks with NATO can certainly take Constantinople, Nicea, Izmir and Straits area from turkey after war

 

[Akritas]

In addition,the Map of Seville was prepared in 2003 according to the maximalist claims of the Greeks! If you look at the map, you will see how fair the EEZ areas of other countries are.

The famous map of Seville, which a lot of fuss has been made about in the media recently, is a study by a professor from the university of the same name in 2003. On this map, he showed the boundaries of the sea zones of European countries in the Mediterranean, but Greece never invoked this.
This map of Seville, created in 2003, has disappeared from the EU itself, which has published in its official maps the EU EEZ showing the EEZs of its coastal states.

Map of the Week – Exclusive Economic Zones

The map of the week shows the European Union Member States’ Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ).

emodnet.ec.europa.eu

Thus, all subsequent EU maps show that Greece has a maritime border with Cyprus and especially the fact that the EEZ of the island of Strongyli has full influence and is adjacent to the EEZ of the Republic of Cyprus.

The rest have been answered in previous comments, I just add this:

How is the EEZ agreement reached between two countries?
Accordance International Law, the following procedure is followed:

1- Initial talks between the two states based on the basis of reciprocity and good neighborliness.
2- If the talks fail, then they continue based on the Law of the Sea(UNCLOS).
3- If a country disagree or does not accept the Law of the Sea, then both they go to International Courts.
4- If a country does not even accept the jurisdiction of the International Courts, then it threatens, invades, bullying and act as the troublemaker of the region.

Guess which country is this?

Greece has been talking with Turkey for 50 years ......
You can see the results of these "talks" ......

 

[comci]

Normally,Germany would have sided with Turkey,but now I don't know. Hungary has been supporting Greek positions the last 3-4 years with the immigrant crisis and tension in the Aegean and East Mediterranean.

I'd say UK,Albania,maybe Croatia,Spain,Netherlands,Skopje,maybe even Montenegro like you said (you never know).


Oh don't count on that...they are more atheist and liberal now that Christian. Their leaders are Freemasons probably.

Dont count on the Netherlands. Everything related to Turkey/turks is perceived negative here. Not to mention Erdogan. The only countries in Europe that will support Turkey are the muslim balkan countries and UK.