Era of wars over, ready to resolve all issues with India: Pakistan

[manofwar]

Since there are no such camps, we can never dismantle them, therefore going by your logic, there can never be peace. Well, that's that folks! The mighty commander of the keyboard warrior regiment has had his say! Man battle stations and engage Caps Lock!






Oscar is a Syed, that's the Prophet's bloodline. I'm Sethi, Hindu blood. Don't see me denying it. Wont find Jatts, Rajputs, ***** and others denying it either. Just find the right bloodline.

Al qaeda sent a video of a training camp in Pakistan once to America.....I'll try to find it on the net....

 

[Sergi]

Nothing is going to change still people's mindset in not changed. It's very important in Pakistan where elections are field with India policy. In India mindset about Pak is also not that good. But it's not the hate level. Mumbai attack draw -ve line to that opinion and it is going down with Pak s refusal to act on it. It will not lead to war but definately slow down peace process.
I didn't know how common Pak people think about India. Hope Mr. Haffizz and Mr. Razpak aren't the representation of Pak opinion on India

 

[vsdoc]

But the point remains Oscar. It is your territory. You are responsible.

All the trade in the world will come crashing to a stop were a Mumbai to repeat.

That you are also fighting the same guys is no consolation to the families of our dead.

How do you prevent that?

Do you honestly believe you have done enough or are doing enough?

 

[SQ8]

Okay because you say it it must be true! These boys are spontaneously training, arming and funding (despite being dirt poor) themselves and then sending themselves on suicide runs all by themselves? What actual proof do you have that there are none other than blind nationalism?

These camps are in the FATA area..
An area acknowledged by the world to be difficult to govern.
They are linked to camps in Afghanistan .. which produce terrorists.
Terrorists that are free to choose whatever targets they wish..
We are fighting those terrorists..

There are religious extremists here, there are political motivated false extremists here..That recruit, fund and train these terrorists at hidden locations.
Its within the society..and efforts are being made to weed such elements out..
Following your example.. this is being done through proper legal channels...which takes time.. and may not always lead to fruitful results.

 

[Abingdonboy]

These camps are in the FATA area..
An area acknowledged by the world to be difficult to govern.
They are linked to camps in Afghanistan .. which produce terrorists.
Terrorists that are free to choose whatever targets they wish..
We are fighting those terrorists..



These camps are in the FATA area..
An area acknowledged by the world to be difficult to govern.
They are linked to camps in Afghanistan .. which produce terrorists.
Terrorists that are free to choose whatever targets they wish..
We are fighting those terrorists..

Not solely- many of these links also relate to P0K camps:

FBI report on Pak terror camps validates India's stand - MAFF NEWS

As many as 42 militant training camps are still operational across the Line of Control (LoC) in ***************** Kashmir, according to intelligence sources, and 250 to 400 militants are always ready at launch pads to sneak into Indian territory.

The FBI found credence to India's claim following the recent arrest of a Pakistan national, Jubair Ahmad, 24, who has legal permanent residency in the United States. Jubair was arrested on charges of providing material support to the Lashkar-e-Toiba by producing and posting LeT propaganda video glorifying violence. Jubair, his father, mother and two younger brothers were given US visas by the State Department on the basis of the fact that his father was related to a US citizen.

Jubair reportedly revealed that the LeT is engaged in imparting commando training to its recruits in terror camps inside Pakistan. The FBI report – which was submitted before a federal US court – went on to state that the recruits, which include teenagers, are also provided religious indoctrination along with commando training in these terror camps.

Oscar, I read you as a rational and fair guy- surly you're not going to flatly deny the presence of such terror camps in P0K despite all the evidence?

 

[vsdoc]

Why are both of you posting double?

 

[Subramanian]

Since there are no such camps, we can never dismantle them, therefore going by your logic, there can never be peace. Well, that's that folks! The mighty commander of the keyboard warrior regiment has had his say! Man battle stations and engage Caps Lock!






Oscar is a Syed, that's the Prophet's bloodline. I'm Sethi, Hindu blood. Don't see me denying it. Wont find Jatts, Rajputs, ***** and others denying it either. Just find the right bloodline.

I am sorry about my abrasive posts in the past,yeah i am a hardline right winger but i am not stupid.

I do not expect anyone to respect or disrespect their past,

But yeah there is a lot of cloud over culture-religion mix,

lot of people are protective and lot are liberal,

it is not a dick measuring context and i feel a graceful agreement to disagree on topics can pave the way forward.

we need not walk across wagah and hug everyday or try too hard to march hard as happens today.

we can just live like distant cousins who meet once in a while instead of letting familiarity breed contempt.

 

[Raje amar]

What?
I don't mean to be offensive at all but have you ever gone to university?
If you then, how how can you say such ridiculous things like "Research about India will be published only by Indian sources"
That's like saying research about Egypt will only be published by Egyptian sources.
or research about frogs will only be published in frog sources.

Many universities around the world have historians who do research about India.
More importantly, almost all major universities have a linguistics department. The linguistics department is where research on Indo-European language happens. And it is this research that is really proving the Aryan invasion.

"tall fair blonde haired Aryans from Central Asia"
............so according to you people from central Asia look like this

You know, its okay to simply say that you don't believe in the Aryan invasion because it huts your feeling and you would rather close your eyes to the world then see the truth.
but please don't go around making up nonsense.
that just makes you look silly.

Please dont be sorry for us. as matter of fact you at the border of than Hindustan were hold the same history & again the extension of it by Mohamad Bin Q......
by your logic Indian were ansisters of the Aryans but can i say that you have the esence of boath the Aryans & the Mohamad Bin Q....

"Bete shishe ke mehelomain rahenewale doosaronke ke garoonpe pathar nahi pheka karte"

 

[Subramanian]

It does that

On an interesting note.. its weird that some Indians think that the entire Pakistan army is hell bent on war with India.
well, apart from the fact that they have been trained for that task.. it is laudable that there are many who vie for peace.
There is change in mindset reflected in the new breed of officers.. They are prepared for war.. but wish for peace.
That is what should be the focus of any professional military.. yet it is decried.

we think your army is professional and hence smart but extremely cunning,

the problem is the political aspect of your Generals who easily manipulate nationalistic emotions to consolidate their power.

even though you guys lose more from this than us,it is the point of abrasion.

 

[SQ8]

But the point remains Oscar. It is your territory. You are responsible.

All the trade in the world will come crashing to a stop were a Mumbai to repeat.

That you are also fighting the same guys is no consolation to the families of our dead.

How do you prevent that?

Do you honestly believe you have done enough or are doing enough?

Not solely- many of these links also relate to P0K camps:

FBI report on Pak terror camps validates India's stand - MAFF NEWS




Oscar, I read you as a rational and fair guy- surly you're not going to flatly deny the presence of such terror camps in P0K despite all the evidence?

Nobody denies that.. or should..
What is denied is any more support by the Govt or establishment for such camps.

Have you had the chance to visit the remains of such a camp?
You cannot discern it from an ordinary village or a seminary..
These terrorists have become self sustaining parasites.. and are supported wholly by religious nutjobs.
Many of whom have seminaries registered as schools supposedly imparted religious education..
But in reality have obstacle courses, firing ranges.. all along.

The too have their Wazir Mohd's.. who inform them if law enforcement is coming in.
Some disperse.. some bribe. some.. fight back.
Its a long fight to end this dark legacy..
but it not a legacy that is being supported by and large..
Years and years of indoctrination cannot be wiped out easily.. and ingrained hate does not die out in a few days.
26/11 should be testament to that..
You are talking about at a complete change within the thinking process and professional standard..
but it takes time to implement...
rest assured.. there are forces working for it..
but..there are also some forces working to keep it..
Its an internal battle that must be won..

But the point remains Oscar. It is your territory. You are responsible.

All the trade in the world will come crashing to a stop were a Mumbai to repeat.

That you are also fighting the same guys is no consolation to the families of our dead.

How do you prevent that?

Do you honestly believe you have done enough or are doing enough?

we think your army is professional and hence smart but extremely cunning,

the problem is the political aspect of your Generals who easily manipulate nationalistic emotions to consolidate their power.

even though you guys lose more from this than us,it is the point of abrasion.

And in this nutshell you have captured all the ills of the past.. and concerns for the future.
There have been through professionals at the helm too.. but more often due to the nature of the Feudal-military alliance that goes on and off.. Below average synophantic ambitious suckups make it to the top.. and create problems for the whole reigion.

 

[rockstarIN]

These camps are in the FATA area..
An area acknowledged by the world to be difficult to govern.
They are linked to camps in Afghanistan .. which produce terrorists.
Terrorists that are free to choose whatever targets they wish..
We are fighting those terrorists..

There are religious extremists here, there are political motivated false extremists here..That recruit, fund and train these terrorists at hidden locations.
Its within the society..and efforts are being made to weed such elements out..
Following your example.. this is being done through proper legal channels...which takes time.. and may not always lead to fruitful results.

I do not think it is impossible to stop any stuff like Mumbai as when Musharraf was in power, even the hawkish Indian officials admitted he efficiently reduced/stopped those evil camps.

The army plays a very important role, if the leadership is okay with India-China kinda peace initiative, it will happen.

 

[vsdoc]

Nobody denies that.. or should..
What is denied is any more support by the Govt or establishment for such camps.

Have you had the chance to visit the remains of such a camp?
You cannot discern it from an ordinary village or a seminary..
These terrorists have become self sustaining parasites.. and are supported wholly by religious nutjobs.
Many of whom have seminaries registered as schools supposedly imparted religious education..
But in reality have obstacle courses, firing ranges.. all along.

The too have their Wazir Mohd's.. who inform them if law enforcement is coming in.
Some disperse.. some bribe. some.. fight back.
Its a long fight to end this dark legacy..
but it not a legacy that is being supported by and large..
Years and years of indoctrination cannot be wiped out easily.. and ingrained hate does not die out in a few days.
26/11 should be testament to that..
You are talking about at a complete change within the thinking process and professional standard..
but it takes time to implement...
rest assured.. there are forces working for it..
but..there are also some forces working to keep it..
Its an internal battle that must be won..





And in this nutshell you have captured all the ills of the past.. and concerns for the future.
There have been through professionals at the helm too.. but more often due to the nature of the Feudal-military alliance that goes on and off.. Below average synophantic ambitious suckups make it to the top.. and create problems for the whole reigion.

We had Punjab up in flames. But that was tackled.

We had the same problem in Kashmir. Yet today Kashmir terrorism is nearly eliminated.

The maoists for all that we say are still seen by most of us as our own people and not as wanting to break away. Hence the half measures and controlled response.

Why are you finding things so tough?

Or is it that we have been at it since the 80s and 1990, and you have recently started?

 

[SQ8]

I do not think it is impossible to stop any stuff like Mumbai as when Musharraf was in power, even the hawkish Indian officials admitted he efficiently reduced/stopped those evil camps.

The army plays a very important role, if the leadership is okay with India-China kinda peace initiative, it will happen.

Exactly..
Although it will lead to a secondary issue.. some remaining dissident elements will rebel against such policies..ala "Difa-e-Pakistan" council and the like..
but when the benefits of such an arrangement(trade, economic development.etc) reach the common man..
they will automatically stop becoming the rank and file of such mafias.
A well fed man.. who has little frustrations.. will not be as easy to sway into such nutty business as one who is unemployed and hungry.

 

[Abingdonboy]

^^^

I understand what you are saying Oscar and respect you for your sensible,mature and honest response. However you cannot relive the Pakistani state of any wrongdoing or accountability in this instance. If these camps are present it is because at some time (or even still today) they have enjoyed complete support from the Pakistani military/state. It is ludicrous to say that nothing can no be done as it is a cultural thing now or it is so ingrained etc etc. The fact is most outsiders find it very hard to see any sort of action being taken against these murderous fools who time and again are found having not just populace support but official support/sanction. Certain groups are just to big to "fly under the radar". And the issue is compounded when idiots worship the "omnipotent" Pakistan military because if that were true and the Government wanted rid of these scum would it have not happened? Frankly is a case of collusion between these groups and the state of just unbelievable levels of incompetence on the intelligence and military community. But the fact is these groups hurt Pakistan more than they hurt anyone else As America’s ambassador in Islamabad, Cameron Munter, puts it, “If you grow vipers in your backyard, you’re going to get bitten.”


Once again I thank you for your mature response (a similar one I'm not sure I'd get from others here) and look forward to your reply.

 

[SQ8]

Or is it that we have been at it since the 80s and 1990, and you have recently started?

And we will need such a timeline as well.

^^^

I understand what you are saying Oscar and respect you for your sensible,mature and honest response. However you cannot relive the Pakistani state of any wrongdoing or accountability in this instance. If these camps are present it is because at some time (or even still today) they have enjoyed complete support from the Pakistani military/state. It is ludicrous to say that nothing can no be done as it is a cultural thing now or it is so ingrained etc etc. The fact is most outsiders find it very hard to see any sort of action being taken against these murderous fools who time and again are found having not just populace support but official support/sanction. Certain groups are just to big to "fly under the radar". And the issue is compounded when idiots worship the "omnipotent" Pakistan military because if that were true and the Government wanted rid of these scum would it have not happened? Frankly is a case of collusion between these groups and the state of just unbelievable levels of incompetence on the intelligence and military community. But the fact is these groups hurt Pakistan more than they hurt anyone else As America’s ambassador in Islamabad, Cameron Munter, puts it, “If you grow vipers in your backyard, you’re going to get bitten.”


Once again I thank you for your mature response (a similar one I'm not sure I'd get from others here) and look forward to your reply.

There are efforts to curb such elements.
but due to the fact that at some point.. for whatever strategic reasons.. these elements were part of state policy and ingrained in it.. they will not disappear overnight.
There are people in power who have a soft corner(and vested interests) with such elements.. and protect them from those that wish to eliminate them.. These elements are not just India centric.. and as you quite rightly pointed out.
Are used more to terrorise the local population into submission so that the interests of these few religious and quasi-religious nutjobs and by some to keep the power centre in illegal sections.

But as a policy.. by far and large it has been shunned.
It will take its time to translate down the ranks.. and one must give it that(and hope it succeeds).
The military is still a blunt tool.. it knows how to blow up...and eliminate threats in an area.
it does not know how to tackle the fallout entirely..
I cannot kill your brother who may be a terrorists and not expect you to retaliate.. other than that I kill you as well.
but then I have to kill your cousin.. and his brother..and so on.
There are people in government.. in parliament who have extremist links.. usually for political reasons..
but links nonetheless.. One may eliminate such men..but the breeding ground of vipers will just throw up another one.. and the cycle will go on.
the current focus must be on eliminating that breeding ground.. and tackling such "legal" vipers.
Its a long and tedious process.. with heavy odds stacked against those who are trying.
But the majority wishes for it.. and they will prevail.