Eid Milad Un Nabi (S.A. W) Mubarak

[undercover JIX]

Good...hadees collectors were a great intellectuals but it is sad that they had written many things about Mohammed which he himself denied..one such thing is showing miracles...in Quran moham!ed is asked time and again to show miracles by pagans of Arabs but he keeps saying it is in the hands of Allah to give power to messengers to perform miracles..he keeps saying he is just a human and Quran is the only miracle that he got from god.
This is a very big contradiction between Quran and hadees.
Long back I have read a book which mentioned dalits in certain part of India believe ambedkar is an avatar of god and they have a story which details his birth as miraculous...the author goes on to say that even Buddha was made god and false stories of his performing miracles were created dime a dozen after his death (Buddha was against superstitions and was a rationalist).
What I am trying to say is people somehow want their so called gods and men to perform miracles..they want their great men to be above common men...it is this desire which make them twist history...ambedkar was born and dead in the last century itself..when people can attribute miracles to him,you can imagine what kind of society 600AD arabs had.
One thing I like about Mohammed is his courage and desire to change his society...his courage to tell his people that he was just a common man just like his people...but Muslims of later generations created so many stories to elevate his status.
P.S:I don't believe he is a prophet though..for me he is a social reformer who used religion to bring in those changes in the society...he was not living in a country like India to be like Buddha or Mahavira who changed society with soft words.his society was harsh and violent...I have some other opinions as well about him but I will refrain from revealing here as people may not take it in right spitit

So Almost all Hindu Gods which are worshiped today are know to be avatars of a real god. according to you all common men born and die, so as all the avatars of god in Hinduism. and you said with the time passage people want to exaggerate and make up stories to show a common man above all. (and in some cases make them gods and worship them).

You can read your own text and go in details..do not want to type too much. just gave you a basic idea.

just pointing out what you said, and if we apply that logic all across then big problem for hindus, because Muslims do not worship anyone else other then one and only Allah, who has no shape or form or avatars.

No Disrespect or ill intentions, just a comment / question, may be I will learn something.

 

[Vikki]

So Almost all Hindu Gods which are worshiped today are know to be avatars of a real god. according to you all common men born and die, so as all the avatars of god in Hinduism. and you said with the time passage people want to exaggerate and make up stories to show a common man above all. (and in some cases make them gods and worship them).

You can read your own text and go in details..do not want to type too much. just gave you a basic idea.

just pointing out what you said, and if we apply that logic all across then big problem for hindus, because Muslims do not worship anyone else other then one and only Allah, who has no shape or form or avatars.

No Disrespect or ill intentions, just a comment / question, may be I will learn something.

Exactly. .many hindu gods were common men..in some cases ,they were just figment of imagination. .the present hindu gods are hardly 2000 years old..hinduism Is not a religion in real sense of the religion.
It is a collection of all the beliefs and philosophies across south asia..isnt it strange upanishads which have a high standard philosophy comes under hinduism and manusmriti a book which divides society based on caste is also considered a hindu book;giving sacrifice to our ancestral tribal gods is considered a hindu custom and abstaining from meat on some days and occasions is also considered a hindu custom.

 

[YeBeWarned]

why can't we have a Separate thread designated for Prophet Muhammad Pbuh ?

 

[ghazi52]

12 Rabi Ul-Awwal

Rabi Ul-Awwal is the most significant month in the Islamic history, because humanity has been blessed in this month (12 Rabi'ul-Awwal) by the birth of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. Before the birth of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, not only the Arabian peninsula, but also the so-called civilized nations of Rome and Persia were drowned in the darkness of ignorance, superstitions, oppression and unrest. The Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, came with the eternal truth of Tawhid (Oneness of Allah), the only faith which provides a firm basis for the real concepts of knowledge, equity and peace. It was this faith which delivered humanity from ignorance and superstitions and spread the light of true knowledge all over the world.

 

[SQ8]

The most important remembrance for me today is the fight against those who divide us in society, who use religion as means of hatred and preach so in certain Madaris, who preach intolerance and inflexibility of mercy and character.. or those who mock our love for the prophet and our belief , who write in eleqoent or pitiful words against their countrymen from animal names on twitter and in news. Who are willing to enjoy “theme nights” with red sindhoors on their forehead yet find those who would profess love to the prophet peacefully offensive to their fake liberalism..
who deny this ayah of the Quran.. the fight; both verbal and by weapons is against them but an effort to keep their hearts from forever being lost to either; to follow the example of rehmat ulill alameen and always prefer the open arms versus the sword.

 

[Dubious]

As my shaikh and all others say, when in doubt correlate with the Quran. Even if a slight “tangent “ or contradiction to the Quran exists; that Hadiath is to be disregarded.

I dont know who your shaikh is but every proper compilation has it on the 1st page or the last page a note from the compiler like Bukhari volumes have it saying "I have compiled to the best of my knowledge but if anything contradicts the Quran throw away the Hadith" [This is paraphrased I cant remember the exact words]

The Quran has no verses that are expired, but Hadiath may be specific to an event or reference frame and no longer valid.

My point exactly!

The Quran has no verses that are expired, but Hadiath may be specific to an event or reference frame and no longer valid.

Well seeing it from a historical prospect, it isnt "expired" but it paints as to what sort of events had occurred to lead to the Prophet saying such stuff....IF history repeats we have solutions but yes I get what you mean....Still I think some of these "expired" hadith build a good historical understanding and takes you to the spacial and temporal context of that era!

Do some research on Mu’tazila ...

A brief introduction:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/two-...-into-reverse-gear.465871/page-6#post-9014800

Referring to yourself is not reference! Even on that other thread you provided no references of where you copied that stuff!

 

[Desert Fox]

Happy Eid-Milad-Un-Nabi (SAW) Mubarak to all the Ummah of Hazrat Mustafa Muhammad (SAW).
@Moonlight @Zibago @war&peace @Maarkhoor @Hell hound @PakSword @BHarwana @Tps43 @Dawood Ibrahim @Slav Defence @Horus @Irfan Baloch @Path-Finder @Arsalan @WAJsal @Game.Invade @Starlord @CriticalThought @MastanKhan @Well.wisher @Signalian @Mentee @RealNapster @CHACHA"G" @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @Psychic @CHACHA"G" @Indos @Hakikat ve Hikmet

Thanks my brother, Eid Mubarak to you and your family as well.

 

[AHMED85]

مسجد مے گیا تھا جلسے پے

چیف جسٹس، عمران، اور جس نے پارلیمنٹ مے خطاب کیا تھا اسرائیل کے حق مے سب کو برا سمجھا جاتا ھے

تبدیلی سرکار ناکام ھے نام ریاست مدینہ اور سرکار دو عالم کی مجرم فرار ہونے پے احتجاج کا سامنا۔

بات تو سچ ھے مگر تبدیلی سرکار مولوی حضرات کو پاگل سمجھتی ھے حالانکہ پتا تبدیلی سرکار کو کہکھ نہیں۔

 

[M. Sarmad]

Referring to yourself is not reference! Even on that other thread you provided no references of where you copied that stuff!

I asked you to do some research yourself if you were interested in knowing about rationalist movements within Islam, didn't post link to my post as "reference" ....

As for where was that stuff "copied" from, ... ?
multiple sources, including:

https://www.mutazila.net/
https://www.ghazali.org/articles/mcc-1.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muʿtazila

So I was right about. You are from same mindset. Rationalists they were not rationalists. They were nothing but a fitnah got busted. Every century these groups rise and every time get humiliated and defeated and thrown out

The only Fitnah we are ordered to fight against is the Fitnah of Khawarij sect; the one you follow .. Khawarij have kept rising from early Islamic period ... They were defeated in the past, they will be defeated in the future ...

 

[Dubious]

https://www.mutazila.net/

Ok to this one...

https://www.ghazali.org/articles/mcc-1.pdf

I personally never liked Ghazali so I wont even read through

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muʿtazila

Wiki is not a source...But oh well carry on!

 

[M. Sarmad]

I personally never liked Ghazali so I wont even read through

Well, Ghazali has been labelled as the second most influential Muslim in history after Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). The most decisive factor in Islamic history has been dominance of traditionalism over rationalism and Ghazali has played the most significant part in the deepening of gulf between Islam and Science/rationalism. Islamic history is a stage on which two fundamentally opposed intellectual forces have been struggling for pre-eminence — a dynamic, scientific rationalism (Rationalists) pitted against a reactionary, obscurantist gnosticism (Traditionalists)....If you don't know (or don't want to know) about Ghazali, you may not be able to understand what went wrong (or right)

Wiki is not a source...But oh well carry on!

Not sure what you mean by that ... But oh well carry on !!

 

[Dubious]

Well, Ghazali has been labelled as the second most influential Muslim in history after Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Yes but I find him making things complex instead of easier
Just a personal opinion


Al-Ghazali's remarkable intellectual shift

Academics have long maintained that the great Islamic theologian, Abu Hamid al-Ghazali, who lived from 1055 to 1111, single-handedly steered Islamic culture away from independent scientific inquiry towards religious fundamentalism.

In a remarkable intellectual shift, he concluded that falsafa (which literally means philosophy but included logic, mathematics and physics) was incompatible with Islam.

After writing his book, The Incoherence of Philosophers, Algazel as he was known in medieval Europe, is said to have "stabbed falsafa in such a manner that it could not rise again in the Muslim world". Thanks to his unparalleled mastery of falsafa and Islamic theology, he injected repugnance among Muslims for science that ultimately led to its decline and, in the process, the decline of Islamic civilisation.

I am aware some think that he is a scapegoat....and wrongly blamed

I will refrain from posting the rest of the text as it may lead to sectarian abuses!

 

[Vikki]

12 Rabi Ul-Awwal

Rabi Ul-Awwal is the most significant month in the Islamic history, because humanity has b blessed in this month (12 Rabi'ul-Awwal) by the birth of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. Before the birth of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, not only the Arabian peninsula, but also the so-called civilized nations of Rome and Persia were drowned in the darkness of ignorance, superstitions, oppression and unrest. The Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, came with the eternal truth of Tawhid (Oneness of Allah), the only faith which provides a firm basis for the real concepts of knowledge, equity and peace. It was this faith which delivered humanity from ignorance and superstitions and spread the light of true knowledge all over the world.

Yes but I find him making things complex instead of easier
Just a personal opinion


Al-Ghazali's remarkable intellectual shift

Academics have long maintained that the great Islamic theologian, Abu Hamid al-Ghazali, who lived from 1055 to 1111, single-handedly steered Islamic culture away from independent scientific inquiry towards religious fundamentalism.

In a remarkable intellectual shift, he concluded that falsafa (which literally means philosophy but included logic, mathematics and physics) was incompatible with Islam.

After writing his book, The Incoherence of Philosophers, Algazel as he was known in medieval Europe, is said to have "stabbed falsafa in such a manner that it could not rise again in the Muslim world". Thanks to his unparalleled mastery of falsafa and Islamic theology, he injected repugnance among Muslims for science that ultimately led to its decline and, in the process, the decline of Islamic civilisation.

I am aware some think that he is a scapegoat....and wrongly blamed

I will refrain from posting the rest of the text as it may lead to sectarian abuses!

Thanks for the information... But What he said was not wrong..the earlier mathematicians and scientists were not that religious..so,religion didn't become an obstacle...later on when Islam was studied deeply by all the sections of society(rich who could get education for their children),people started following Islam to the core...how can philosophy develop in a land which forbids you from questioning the existence of god or prophets?how can there be a scientific progress when people have preoccupied notions that all science is there in Islam.

 

[I.R.A]

Thank you Muhammad, for it was you who had the strength to receive the ultimate divine message, it was you who had the ability and will to preach and implement the message, it was you who was the light bearer for humanity in its darkest of times, it was you who stood steadfast in face of insults, harm, danger, but didn't budge .... the human rights activist, the animal rights activist, the women's rights activist, the father of orphans, the reformer, the leader, the teacher, the father, the liberator, the rescuer, the kindhearted, the affectionate, the merciful .... The Messenger .... many many blessings be upon you, lots of peace be upon you ....

If you keep few questions in your mind before studying one Ayah, that would be so helpful. Such as, when was this Ayah revealed, it was revealed in Mecca or Madina. What was the setting? Was there any incident that the Ayah was revealed after that. It was meant for a group of people or for everyone?

Quran is for all the times, it cannot be some event bound, incident based and it cannot be partially applicable to a set of people of different times. Quran says itself we keep repeating the verses so you can understand better ............ so all those verses are to be read together in a sequence to get the understanding and answers "Tasreef ul ayat". Quran was and is in Lohe Mahfooz, it wasn't being revealed depending upon events / incidents.

how can there be a scientific progress when people have preoccupied notions that all science is there in Islam.

All science is not there in Quran and Islam, what people don't get is that Quran encourages scientific exploration, research and finding ...... stresses on getting knowledge. Quran is not science but introduction to science. For example very pertinent to this thread is

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِلْعَالَمِينَ Chapter 21 verse 107. Worlds?

 

[Dubious]

Thanks for the information... But What he said was not wrong..the earlier mathematicians and scientists were not that religious..so,religion didn't become an obstacle...later on when Islam was studied deeply by all the sections of society(rich who could get education for their children),people started following Islam to the core...how can philosophy develop in a land which forbids you from questioning the existence of god or prophets?how can there be a scientific progress when people have preoccupied notions that all science is there in Islam.

1stly, do you have any sources to the bold part or just garbage?
2ndly, You are going off topic but if you must know...Islam does allow questioning in fact all over the quran it goes by "ponder the signs of ALLAH"...Now if you "ponder" you are bond to ask questions...Islam doesnt restrict thinking or questioning...People lacking information/ knowledge to answer restrict it coz by such questions their limited knowledge is exposed...The same as any priest goes violent if you question him [as shown in movies]

And the very fact that the early stages of Islam when people WERE RELIGIOUS, the most advancement in science took place as compared to when they started relaxing and enjoying kingdom life and pleasing the king!