Eid Milad Un Nabi (S.A. W) Mubarak

[M. Sarmad]

Muhadithin are the ultimate rationalists.

You, my friend, are absolutely clueless on what you are talking about ....

The history of resistance to Islamic traditionalists by Muslim rationalists can be traced back to the latter half of the first century of Hijra ... The "Qadariyah" were the first ones to challenge traditionalists` doctrine (which defended the actions of Ummayad Caliphs) during the Ummayad Rule ...


Two traditionalists at the forefront of "Anti Rationalist/Mu’tazila campaign" during the early Abbasid period were Ahmed Bin Hanbal and Ismail Bukhari ... !!!

The main reason behind compilation of Hadith Collections (going against the tradition maintained by the first eight generations of Muslims) was "codification of traditional Islam" to counter the rationalists' ideology, which was far more developed and logical ...

 

[Dubious]

@313ghazi I cant answer all your questions because I have only learnt part of the science of authenticating hadith...I dont have any more knowledge than which I have shared. All I know is it is a complex science and involves tracing through text and tracing the temporal and spacial reasoning of said rulings and also an understanding of the history and knowledge / biography of the narrators...These are just some of the rules to authenticate a hadith that I am aware of..I am sure there are more!

You, my friend, are absolutely clueless on what you are talking about ....

The history of resistance to Islamic traditionalists by Muslim rationalists can be traced back to the latter half of the first century of Hijra ... The "Qadariyah" were the first ones to challenge traditionalists` doctrine (which defended the actions of Ummayad Caliphs) during the Ummayad Rule ...


Two traditionalists at the forefront of "Anti Rationalist/Mu’tazila campaign" during the early Abbasid period were Ahmed Bin Hanbal and Ismail Bukhari ... !!!

The main reason behind compilation of Hadith Collections (going against the tradition maintained by the first eight generations of Muslims) was "codification of traditional Islam" to counter the rationalists' ideology, which was far more developed and logical ...

My history is not very good could you provide some references to what you are talking about. Thank you

 

[M. Sarmad]

My history is not very good could you provide some references to what you are talking about. Thank you

Do some research on Mu’tazila ...

A brief introduction:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/two-...-into-reverse-gear.465871/page-6#post-9014800

 

[CriticalThought]

You, my friend, are absolutely clueless on what you are talking about ....

The history of resistance to Islamic traditionalists by Muslim rationalists can be traced back to the latter half of the first century of Hijra ... The "Qadariyah" were the first ones to challenge traditionalists` doctrine (which defended the actions of Ummayad Caliphs) during the Ummayad Rule ...


Two traditionalists at the forefront of "Anti Rationalist/Mu’tazila campaign" during the early Abbasid period were Ahmed Bin Hanbal and Ismail Bukhari ... !!!

The main reason behind compilation of Hadith Collections (going against the tradition maintained by the first eight generations of Muslims) was "codification of traditional Islam" to counter the rationalists' ideology, which was far more developed and logical ...

Actually, you are using rationalist as a terminology to refer to a specific group, while I am using it as an attribute. 'So called' rationalists burden rationality with a weight it cannot carry and their differences have nothing to do with Hadith, rather with logical inference.

And, you are factually wrong about the compilation of Hadith. The Companions May Allah be Pleased with them have directly written Hadith from Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aali Wasallam and the very first collection of Hadith the 'Muwatta Imam Malik' was written in the second century of hijrah.

 

[M. Sarmad]

And, you are factually wrong about the compilation of Hadith. The Companions May Allah be Pleased with them have directly written Hadith from Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aali Wasallam and the very first collection of Hadith the 'Muwatta Imam Malik' was written in the second hijrah.

Bro, Muwatta was written/compiled around 170 Hijrah and it was the first authentic hadith collection... No hadith was compiled/written by the first 8 generations of Muslims. Do some research please

 

[SQ8]

It isnt gossip if there are several lines of narratives talking about the same incident or similar incidents....
It is a science you dont just look at 1 person...You have to trace back each person in the list of narration and track what kind of person each is...what the context was, why such a thing was said by the Nabi SAW....and many other clues and puzzles before saying yes this is authentic! If even 1 narrator is suspicious or a troublemaker or who cant be trusted, the hadith is automatically claimed dhaif and to what level has a whole understanding (science) and logical thinking behind it! Another hadith for the same event is then compared and its narrators have to traced. The time and situation when the Prophet said such things is researched and so on....It is not as simple as just reading a hadith and sorting it as right and wrong!


A Muhadith is one who has studied the subject and is entitled to make a claim HOWEVER, even after 4-10 yrs as a Muhadith he would caution from making blanket statements as any wise human does!

As my shaikh and all others say, when in doubt correlate with the Quran. Even if a slight “tangent “ or contradiction to the Quran exists; that Hadiath is to be disregarded.

The Quran has no verses that are expired, but Hadiath may be specific to an event or reference frame and no longer valid.

 

[313ghazi]

@313ghazi I cant answer all your questions because I have only learnt part of the science of authenticating hadith...I dont have any more knowledge than which I have shared. All I know is it is a complex science and involves tracing through text and tracing the temporal and spacial reasoning of said rulings and also an understanding of the history and knowledge / biography of the narrators...These are just some of the rules to authenticate a hadith that I am aware of..I am sure there are more!


My history is not very good could you provide some references to what you are talking about. Thank you

I suspect we're both probably saying the same thing in different ways. I don't disagree with any of what you said.

 

[CriticalThought]

Bro, Muwatta was written around 170 Hijrah and it was the first authentic hadith collection... No hadith was compiled/written by first 8 generations of Muslims. Do some research please

My apologies, I meant to write 'second century of hijrah'. That was my mistake. I have updated my post as well.

The Hadith written by the Companions May Allah be Pleased with them were not published as collections of book, but the act of writing them down is true.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The Hadith written by the Companions May Allah be Pleased with them were not published as collections of book, but the act of writing them down is true.

No, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) had forbidden Sahaba to write down anything from him other than Qur'an.
Khulfa e Rashidun didn't let anyone disobey the commands of the Holy Prophet during their rule
It was only during Umayyad rule that the Hadith collection/compilation began
The reason given by early historians/muhadditheen is that the ulema had reached a consensus during Umayad Rule that Hadith should be written down for the fear of it being lost
Prohibition was Sunnah, Permission was Ijma

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Eid Milad u Nabi Mubarak

We need to rethink about how we Muslims celebrate Milad because last time one old woman in my neighbourhood got died because she could not reach hospital as roads were block because of milad un nabi . They waste money on useless stuffs and often create trouble for average people . If we claim to love Prophet Muhammad( PBUH) then we should follow his sunnah which is hard part while we go for show off stuff of marching on road with green flags, decorating buildings and doing dhamaal over qawwali and naats , distributing biryani etc ..no offence to anyone but government should limit all such religious gathering of boht sunni and shia to specific place

 

[Ceylal]

What is the situation with rest of the ummah? Does Turkey, Saudia Arabia, Algeria, Iraq etc celebrate?

@KediKesenFare @Ceylal @HannibalBarca

Algerians celebrate this day with food, parades , fireworks and a lot of black powder..

 

[Zarvan]

Algerians celebrate this day with food, parades , fireworks and a lot of black powder..

Please post pictures

You, my friend, are absolutely clueless on what you are talking about ....

The history of resistance to Islamic traditionalists by Muslim rationalists can be traced back to the latter half of the first century of Hijra ... The "Qadariyah" were the first ones to challenge traditionalists` doctrine (which defended the actions of Ummayad Caliphs) during the Ummayad Rule ...


Two traditionalists at the forefront of "Anti Rationalist/Mu’tazila campaign" during the early Abbasid period were Ahmed Bin Hanbal and Ismail Bukhari ... !!!

The main reason behind compilation of Hadith Collections (going against the tradition maintained by the first eight generations of Muslims) was "codification of traditional Islam" to counter the rationalists' ideology, which was far more developed and logical ...

So I was right about. You are from same mindset. Rationalists they were not rationalists. They were nothing but a fitnah got busted. Every century these groups rise and every time get humiliated and defeated and thrown out

 

[Ceylal]

Please post pictures


So I was right about. You are from same mindset. Rationalists they were not rationalists. They were nothing but a fitnah got busted. Every century these groups rise and every time get humiliated and defeated and thrown out

They are coming..

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Mohammad Rasul Allah , and Last Messenger
Peace and Blessing of Allah be upon him

 

[Vikki]

For me Quran is above them...I would read what they have to say but only the Quran is guaranteed...And you gave me the link I read. Did you read it? It clearly said Prophet discouraged people from such things.


If the source is hadith it will be written that is what scholars do. I read enough to know so.
I am not refuting it but you presented a link of your choice and I showed you from said link...Now it is up to you to seek another opinion or to understand what the prophet wanted.

I have done it in the past. My family is mixed half celebrate it with Quran Khani and doing all this stuff and other half does by praying and doing deeds mentioned by the Prophet.

To each their own.

I am not saying anything is wrong in celebrating it. But I dont...However, if invited to a Quran Khani and milaad I do attend but we dont have it in our homes...but we wont stop the relatives or neighbours if they wish to do it.... each is entitled to their own choice and opinion (as long as it doesnt harm anyone)

Good...hadees collectors were a great intellectuals but it is sad that they had written many things about Mohammed which he himself denied..one such thing is showing miracles...in Quran moham!ed is asked time and again to show miracles by pagans of Arabs but he keeps saying it is in the hands of Allah to give power to messengers to perform miracles..he keeps saying he is just a human and Quran is the only miracle that he got from god.
This is a very big contradiction between Quran and hadees.
Long back I have read a book which mentioned dalits in certain part of India believe ambedkar is an avatar of god and they have a story which details his birth as miraculous...the author goes on to say that even Buddha was made god and false stories of his performing miracles were created dime a dozen after his death (Buddha was against superstitions and was a rationalist).
What I am trying to say is people somehow want their so called gods and men to perform miracles..they want their great men to be above common men...it is this desire which make them twist history...ambedkar was born and dead in the last century itself..when people can attribute miracles to him,you can imagine what kind of people 600AD desertarabs had.
One thing I like about Mohammed is his courage and desire to change his society...his courage to tell his people that he was just a common man just like his people...but Muslims of later generations created so many stories to elevate his status.
P.S:I don't believe he is a prophet though..for me he is a social reformer who used religion to bring in those changes in the society...he was not living in a country like India to be like Buddha or Mahavira who changed society with soft words.his society was harsh and violent...I have some other opinions as well about him but I will refrain from revealing here as people may not take it in right spitit