Eid Milad Un Nabi (S.A. W) Mubarak

[Dubious]

I don’t disagree with you but my point is different. It is that the prophet’s life and actions provide context to such ambiguities that may arise due to language interpretation.

I heard a good story on that...Let me share:

Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم rushed to his Sahaba. He said, “No one among you should pray `Asr except at Banu Quraida“. [Tarikh Ibn-Kathir]

The Sahabah immediately gathered their supplies and embarked on their journey. Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم was not with this group.

Soon, Maghrib was drawing near. The Sahabah were discussing what to do. On one hand Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم gave a clear order, but on the other, they were risking missing Asr.

Two different opinions arose:

1. When Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلمصلى الله عليه وسلم said they should not pray Asr except in Banu Quraidah, he meant it metaphorically. In other words, he was simply telling them to rush towards Banu Quraidah right away. They felt they should pray now, instead of actually getting there and risking missing the Salah.

2. Others took Prophet Muhammad’s صلى الله عليه وسلم word literally. When he said they should not pray ‘Asr except in Banu Quraidah, they were not supposed to pray anywhere else, even if they risked praying late.

Both groups did what they thought was correct. Some stopped and prayed, others went on and prayed when they arrived to the general area of Banu Quraidah.

When they returned to Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, they told him what had happened and how two different opinions arose. He did not say that either of them was wrong, and that both were acceptable.


Shaykh Al-Awlaki concluded this by saying the following:

This shows that there is room for the difference of opinion in Islam. We can see that even in the time of The Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم himself, different people interpreted the same Ahadith differently. And according to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم himself, both opinions were acceptable.

Similarly, when it comes to Fiqh today [especially differences in Madhahib like Shafi’i vs. Hanafi vs. Hanbali vs. Maliki], more than one opinion can be valid. The only condition is that the opinions are derived because that is what the scholar feels to be most correct in the eyes of Allah and His Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم; the opinion cannot be chosen out of desire because it’s easier or satisfies your Nafs more, or because it “makes more sense”. Finally, it must not stray from the already accepted opinions unless you have adequate proof and adequate scholarship.

This post does not mean to say that anyone can grab a copy of the Quran and Sahih Bukhari and derive rulings. It means that when you see that scholars have differing opinions on a topic, one of them doesn’t necessarily have to be wrong

 

[SQ8]

Hadith was compiled from 3 different generations including people who were present at that time. They were cross referenced for historical accuracy and scrutinised before they were published. There is a methodical scientific process to it. It is far from "he said/she said".

If anything it's probably recorded more accurately than things we consider historical fact.

Methodical or not, it is still he said/she said.. try to understand what I am referring to in terms of a human process versus one in which we are certain of authenticity with no dispute.

If they were all scrutinized then the whole idea of sahih and zaif would not arise. It was an extensive and methodical process but was not perfect like the Quran and hence causes dispute; yet, as I mentioned before it is important in many places especially hadiath like the 40 Qudsia to provide context to the Quran.

However, tomorrow if the Hadiath are all lost; the Quran will still sustain.. but the same cannot be said for the reverse.
It is symbiotic relationship but where only the Hadiath are truly dependent upon the Quran for authentication of content.

 

[Dubious]

So sorry sir I was in hurry for writing the reply
Gustakh-e-etc is there there best defensive and offensive weapon like molana khadim hussain rizvi issued the "fatwah" for the assassination of judges and cheif of army staff no one can do nothing except Uturn of Imran Khan from hos prespective that the rules of government should me prevailed
Some of that kind Mullahs also starded jihad in afghanistan against Soviet Than USA and results into the total destruction of Afghanistan

Well you mixed religion and politics

1) What Rizvi did is wrong, childish and egoistic! He threw Islam under the bus to get "HIS" demands of "HIS" way ...not ALLAH's way!

2) What IK did was what he saw fit for the country and not to cause another uproar but afterwards they did catch those involved in gunda gardi/ vandalism ....

If he had issued something against Rizvi the same man who caused so much damage to the country irrespective of it being a court order...Imagine how much crap he [and his blind followers] would give to IK for booking him?

 

[SQ8]

I heard a good story on that...Let me share:

Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم rushed to his Sahaba. He said, “No one among you should pray `Asr except at Banu Quraida“. [Tarikh Ibn-Kathir]

The Sahabah immediately gathered their supplies and embarked on their journey. Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم was not with this group.

Soon, Maghrib was drawing near. The Sahabah were discussing what to do. On one hand Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم gave a clear order, but on the other, they were risking missing Asr.

Two different opinions arose:

1. When Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلمصلى الله عليه وسلم said they should not pray Asr except in Banu Quraidah, he meant it metaphorically. In other words, he was simply telling them to rush towards Banu Quraidah right away. They felt they should pray now, instead of actually getting there and risking missing the Salah.

2. Others took Prophet Muhammad’s صلى الله عليه وسلم word literally. When he said they should not pray ‘Asr except in Banu Quraidah, they were not supposed to pray anywhere else, even if they risked praying late.

Both groups did what they thought was correct. Some stopped and prayed, others went on and prayed when they arrived to the general area of Banu Quraidah.

When they returned to Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, they told him what had happened and how two different opinions arose. He did not say that either of them was wrong, and that both were acceptable.


Shaykh Al-Awlaki concluded this by saying the following:

This shows that there is room for the difference of opinion in Islam. We can see that even in the time of The Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم himself, different people interpreted the same Ahadith differently. And according to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم himself, both opinions were acceptable.

Similarly, when it comes to Fiqh today [especially differences in Madhahib like Shafi’i vs. Hanafi vs. Hanbali vs. Maliki], more than one opinion can be valid. The only condition is that the opinions are derived because that is what the scholar feels to be most correct in the eyes of Allah and His Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم; the opinion cannot be chosen out of desire because it’s easier or satisfies your Nafs more, or because it “makes more sense”. Finally, it must not stray from the already accepted opinions unless you have adequate proof and adequate scholarship.

This post does not mean to say that anyone can grab a copy of the Quran and Sahih Bukhari and derive rulings. It means that when you see that scholars have differing opinions on a topic, one of them doesn’t necessarily have to be wrong

I only differ in the final part in that just as in science where new discoveries are made(by qualified people.. qualifying institutions matter as well) then they must be taken into account as all scholars on the subject be it Imam Abu Hanifa or Others were still men of their times and interpreted according to their social norms and understanding .
Hence the assertion that we cannot break with them or must stick to their interpretation rather than evolve them is something I disagree with. They did so too and it was encouraged as it is with all scholars.. with scholars... true ulema as these men were.. and not pen di siri types that pass off for them in today’s majority.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

1) What Rizvi did is wrong, childish and egoistic! He threw Islam under the bus to get "HIS" demands of "HIS" way ...not ALLAH's way!

Bingo.

If he had issued something against Rizvi the same man who caused so much damage to the country irrespective of it being a court order...Imagine how much crap he [and his blind followers] would give to IK for booking him?

Very true. But when are we going to see the state stand up to this rabble?


* Really enjoying the discussion here by you gents. Proof we can have high end discussions on PDF.

 

[Dubious]

Hadith was compiled from 3 different generations including people who were present at that time. They were cross referenced for historical accuracy and scrutinised before they were published. There is a methodical scientific process to it. It is far from "he said/she said".

If anything it's probably recorded more accurately than things we consider historical fact.

If you "STUDY" Islam at university level there are graduate students doing 4 yrs of their life in digging history, matching hadith and following narrators...

Hadith was only "collected" by what people remember or heard...Narrators of the same story were collected for cross-reference HOWEVER, the cross-referencing was not done when the hadith were collected...A lot of it is still being done [yes there are that many "hadith" some fabricated; some from not authentic narrators]...through the years some has been thrown out...You can pick a Sahih hadith from xyz year and compare it with one from abc year (keep a 50 yr gap) you will notice the difference!

I am not saying hadith are wrong but some are hearsay...others are from memory...Some authentic narrators being Human also had dementia at the later part of their lives and this is recorded in history based on their biography...SO there are whole research areas...Hadith combing is a science now! You can even get a Masters degree by doing some dissertation of the authenticity of the hadith...But of course you need to spend full 2 yrs of research or even do a PhD and become a certified muhadith!

SOME when translated to different languages lose the essence...so each country has their own task of correcting translation and keeping updated with latest versions of the corrections...

I wouldnt go as far as to say it is TOTALLY wrong! But I will tell you this much...the problem that arose for Hazat Aisha's age at marriage had to do with poor translation! where the word ten was missing and only 9 was taken for some reason....The word 19 in Arabic (in the original Arabic Hadith is tis3at a3shara) but the translator chose or forgot the a3shara and we Hazrat Aisha being 9 at the age of marriage....

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Our Prophet (PBUH) is known by "Muhammad" and "Ahmad". The Turkish folks name their kids as Mehmet and Ahmet!!! They do it intentionally out of the deep respect and love for Resulullah!!!! For, a person with the name Mehmet or Ahmet may be ridiculed, scorned etc. However, the slight distortion put a barrier for the Mubarek names of "Muhammad" and "Ahmad"!!!!

The Principal Secretaries of the Ottoman Sultans used to open the letters sent from the Governors of different provinces. However, Medina was an exception!!!! Whenever a letter from Medina was received the sultan used to first take an Abdest (Udhu), touch the letter on his forehead and then open the letter himself!!!!!!

When Yavuz Sultan Selim took hold of the Haremain, and the Imam started the Hutbe with Hukumut-el Haremain the Sultan stopped him!!! He asked the Imam to change it to Hadimat-ul Haremain!!!!

The Sanjak (coat of arms) of the Ottoman Saltanat wasn't used inside Medina and Mekka for they bore that of Resulullah and Halife-i Rashidin!!!!

This was the standard of Edep and Haya of the Ottoman Empire....

 

[Dubious]

Very true. But when are we going to see the state stand up to this rabble?

I really have no answer for this one

If it were up to me I would just chitrol that idiot in front of his followers not with the Japanese chapal but with a belt!

 

[JohnWick]

Well you mixed religion and politics

1) What Rizvi did is wrong, childish and egoistic! He threw Islam under the bus to get "HIS" demands of "HIS" way ...not ALLAH's way!

2) What IK did was what he saw fit for the country and not to cause another uproar but afterwards they did catch those involved in gunda gardi/ vandalism ....

If he had issued something against Rizvi the same man who caused so much damage to the country irrespective of it being a court order...Imagine how much crap he [and his blind followers] would give to IK for booking him?

Actually I am not mixing politics and religion but molana sahib did
IK should pass a resolution or some permanent cure to this hijacking
And the Jihads in Afg against soviets and now against uncle sam is for religion or Islam i didn't understand
And what are the political Ventura behind ISIS??????????

 

[Dubious]

* Really enjoying the discussion here by you gents. Proof we can have high end discussions on PDF.

Have you seen the number of mods and also TT that visited this thread...Any attempt at stupidity would be suicidal!

IK should pass a resolution or some permanent cure to this hijacking

That is up to our beloved dead Islamic council! They control that part

Our Islamic council is only alive when they wish to get followers otherwise issues like these they are nowhere seen nor heard!

And the Jihads in Afg against soviets and now against uncle sam is for religion or Islam i didn't understand
And what are the political Ventura behind ISIS??????????

MOST are brainwashed...MANY are doing it for money as there is no rozi gar left except to fight...

ISIS is just to malign Islam...very simple as it has achieved it in its 1st few mths!

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

If you "STUDY" Islam at university level there are graduate students doing 4 yrs of their life in digging history, matching hadith and following narrators...

Hadith was only "collected" by what people remember or heard...Narrators of the same story were collected for cross-reference HOWEVER, the cross-referencing was not done when the hadith were collected...A lot of it is still being done [yes there are that many "hadith" some fabricated; some from not authentic narrators]...through the years some has been thrown out...You can pick a Sahih hadith from xyz year and compare it with one from abc year (keep a 50 yr gap) you will notice the difference!

I am not saying hadith are wrong but some are hearsay...others are from memory...Some authentic narrators being Human also had dementia at the later part of their lives and this is recorded in history based on their biography...SO there are whole research areas...Hadith combing is a science now! You can even get a Masters degree by doing some dissertation of the authenticity of the hadith...But of course you need to spend full 2 yrs of research or even do a PhD and become a certified muhadith!

SOME when translated to different languages lose the essence...so each country has their own task of correcting translation and keeping updated with latest versions of the corrections...

I wouldnt go as far as to say it is TOTALLY wrong! But I will tell you this much...the problem that arose for Hazat Aisha's age at marriage had to do with poor translation! where the word ten was missing and only 9 was taken for some reason....The word 19 in Arabic (in the original Arabic Hadith is tis3at a3shara) but the translator chose or forgot the a3shara and we Hazrat Aisha being 9 at the age of marriage....

As for the authentic collection of Hadis-i Sherif by Imam-i Buhari (RA) etc., they were further verified by the Mu'min Jinns who live up to 3K years and were also the Prophet's (PBUH) Companions.....

 

[Dubious]

3K years

Come again?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Come again?

This is from the Turkish sources based on the Ottoman traditions of learning....

By the by the Ottoman Ilm was based on Mevlana Rumi (From Afganistan), Imam-i Rabbani (from Punjab) etc.......

 

[Dubious]

As for the authentic Hadises by Imam-i Buhari etc., they were further verified by the Mu'min Jinns who live up to 3K years and were also the Prophet's (PBUH) Companions.....

Bukhari still has some hadith that are .....that is why the new version (well not so new now ...say the version produced some 20 yrs ago) has it written at the bottom DHAIF hadith to differentiate it from SAHIH ....

Some are being digitized and having footnotes...Others having connective links...one just sliding a glance usually misses it that is why I call it a whole science and research is needed!

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Have you seen the number of mods and also TT that visited this thread...Any attempt at stupidity would be suicidal!

lol. It's not only lack of stupidy but the the very high level of discussion here that is refreshing. It's always pleasure reading comments by people who know what they are talking about. You actually learn something!