Don’t use the K word

[anurag_singh]

so you are ok if i call you a non-muslim in english, and you'll start a fist fight if i call you non-muslim in urdu?

Kafir is not an insult, its an urdu translation of a english word Non-muslim i.e not a muslim.

There is a word for muslims in Hindi "Malechchha". Do you think we should use that word.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

so you are ok if i call you a non-muslim in english, and you'll start a fist fight if i call you non-muslim in urdu?

Kafir is not an insult, its an urdu translation of a english word Non-muslim i.e not a muslim.

I believe you misunderstood my point.....regardless of its linguistic origins , the word kafir is almost always used in a derogatory sense ... every one using it is not a linguistic expert and does not stop to "consider" the language subtleties .....

and yes I would start a fist fight if I felt a person was openly defiling my religion....no offense meant......

 

[JonAsad]

although kafir means non-muslim but over the years it has developed into swear word in Pakistan its impolite infact can piss oponents off if we call any any one kafir , therefore its rather stupid of those tunnel visioned idiots to mark a pakistanis coffin as kafir.

Marking the coffin of a Pakistani as kafir was a shamefull act, and who ever wrote it, it was ment as an insult to him because of his religion, here i support not using the word kafir to mark his coffin.

But generaly speaking a non-muslim is a kafir.

 

[Skeptic]

Marking the coffin of a Pakistani as kafir was a shamefull act, and who ever wrote it, it was ment as an insult to him because of his religion, here i support not using the word kafir to mark his coffin.

But generaly speaking a non-muslim is a kafir.

And the aforementioned Pakistani was just that - A non muslim.

 

[hecj]

kafir means those persons who are against or dont follow the principles of god.
btw it is an term used by muslims,so they think anti muslim or non muslim are kafirs.they self have misinterprated the words.

and one more thing.........i want to know ,out of us who are according to the rules of the god.every body is breaking the law and rules .so all of us are of same category.

 

[JonAsad]

There is a word for muslims in Hindi "Malechchha". Do you think we should use that word.

that is what the problem is, you see you have aword for muslims in hindi, a special word for muslims, when ever you will use it you will ment an insult.
that is the difference, we dont call a hindu something or a sikh something or a christian some thing, we call every person who is not a muslim, a kafir which translates into english as non-muslim,

now can you please tell me what the word Malechchha translates into

 

[JonAsad]

I believe you misunderstood my point.....regardless of its linguistic origins , the word kafir is almost always used in a derogatory sense ... every one using it is not a linguistic expert and does not stop to "consider" the language subtleties .....

and yes I would start a fist fight if I felt a person was openly defiling my religion....no offense meant......

Bro the word kafir has nothing special to do with your religion, its a general word we use to describe a non-muslim.

Non-muslims also includes christians and jews and all other religions of the world.

So dont believe that kafir is specialy ment for you guys.
If you believe so then naturaly it will be offensive.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

that is what the problem is, you see you have aword for muslims in hindi, a special word for muslims, when ever you will use it you will ment an insult.
that is the difference, we dont call a hindu something or a sikh something or a christian some thing, we call every person who is not a muslim, a kafir which translates into english as non-muslim,

now can you please tell me what the word Malechchha translates into

alright now we 've entered into a real theological discussion....then could you tell me what is the rationale behind calling Ba'hai's , Ahmediyas , sometimes even sufi's and shia's kafir.....?

who determines who is a true muslim and not...?

Several sunni muslims dont follow the tenets of islam to the letter ....are you willing to call them kafir...?

Hinduism is an exception as we never had to face a conflicting ideology at the inception....hence we assumed every one we met was hindu....and so no clear distinctive words separating non hindus.....


what about jews ??? for instance they have a special word for all non-jews .....Gentiles....

abusive or not....such a word immediately creates a perception of difference and hence inferiority in the minds of a majority jewish group.....its the same situation with the word kaffir.....especially in muslim majority countries.....a stamp or mark of inferiority of sorts....

 

[JonAsad]

And the aforementioned Pakistani was just that - A non muslim.

Bro every one knows that when a hindu dies, he is burnt, and when a muslim died he is buried.

I am sure if we had buried him that would have also sparked a controversy,

the only reason his coffin was marked as kafir was so that he is recognizable as a non-muslim and is not burried.

But as i hv said earlier i dont support the use of word kafir here, as you have said earlier ghair islami or just writting his name on the coffin would had been enough.

That act was a shameful act for all Pakistani's.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Bro the word kafir has nothing special to do with your religion, its a general word we use to describe a non-muslim.

Non-muslims also includes christians and jews and all other religions of the world.

So dont believe that kafir is specialy ment for you guys.
If you believe so then naturaly it will be offensive.

let me PM you my views.....atmosphere here seems to be heating up.....

 

[JonAsad]

alright now we 've entered into a real theological discussion....then could you tell me what is the rationale behind calling Ba'hai's , Ahmediyas , sometimes even sufi's and shia's kafir.....?

who determines who is a true muslim and not...?

Several sunni muslims dont follow the tenets of islam to the letter ....are you willing to call them kafir...?

Hinduism is an exception as we never had to face a conflicting ideology at the inception....hence we assumed every one we met was hindu....and so no clear distinctive words separating non hindus.....


what about jews ??? for instance they have a special word for all non-jews .....Gentiles....

abusive or not....such a word immediately creates a perception of difference and hence inferiority in the minds of a majority jewish group.....its the same situation with the word kaffir.....especially in muslim majority countries.....a stamp or mark of inferiority of sorts....

i'll have to explain every sect and what are their differences to make you understand why people call them, or each other kafirs. It will be a long religious discussion, unfortunately we had these discussions many times on this forum.
i dont want to debate on that any more, sorry.

P.S i dont consider other muslims specialy shia's as kafir just because they are different.
Thats it on that.

 

[TextMiner]

Bro the word kafir has nothing special to do with your religion, its a general word we use to describe a non-muslim.

Non-muslims also includes christians and jews and all other religions of the world.

So dont believe that kafir is specialy ment for you guys.
If you believe so then naturaly it will be offensive.

People will always find labels to subvert and blame the others ; If he is not a Kuffar, he is a Qadiyani ; Or a Mohajir ; Or a fish-eating Muslim Bengali. This is the ultimate curse from which Pakistan is suffering. The sooner The Land of the Pure gets rid of this "Purity" tagging, the better it will be for your future generations to live peacefully.

 

[Omar1984]

Bro the word kafir has nothing special to do with your religion, its a general word we use to describe a non-muslim.

Non-muslims also includes christians and jews and all other religions of the world.

So dont believe that kafir is specialy ment for you guys.
If you believe so then naturaly it will be offensive.

Kafir is an Arabic word and is in the Quran. The word "kafir" means unbeliever. hindus dont believe in Islam, Christianity, Sabians, or Judaism so hindus are kafirs (unbelievers).


Ahl al-Kitab is also an Arabic word and is in the Quran. The word Ahl al-Kitab means People of the Book. The three faiths that are mentioned in the Quran as people of the book are Judaism, Sabians, and Christianity.

 

[pak-marine]

Marking the coffin of a Pakistani as kafir was a shamefull act, and who ever wrote it, it was ment as an insult to him because of his religion, here i support not using the word kafir to mark his coffin.

But generaly speaking a non-muslim is a kafir.

well if you think a non muslim is a kafir than why do you think marking his coffin as kafir is wrong

 

[JonAsad]

People will always find labels to subvert and blame the others ; If he is not a Kuffar, he is a Qadiyani ; Or a Mohajir ; Or a fish-eating Muslim Bengali. This is the ultimate curse from which Pakistan is suffering. The sooner The Land of the Pure gets rid of this "Purity" tagging, the better it will be for your future generations to live peacefully.

Thank you for your concerns, every society has some ills, name callings, rouge traditions, norms w/e, we are no exception, and to be honest you guys are no different, hence i dont believe that this is the reason we are suffering.
Cheers