Does the PN need an aircraft carrier?

[ramu]

Hi,

You simply cannot have just a carrier by itself---you will have a cvarrier battle group---a flotilla of surface, submerged and in the air assets.

That cost would run into closer to 10---15 billion dollars. Now pakistan navy is not going to be invading any country away from its shores---there is no mindset of force projection against rest of the world, there will be many a known enemy ( india ) and many unknown enemies ( israel, u s, britain, russia, submersible fleet ).

We will not be fighting only one enemy---people will be after our assets from the submersibles---the super powers and israel can do the biddings of india and we won't know who sunk the carrier.

Only with half that money---pak can have an extremely potent, defensive and offensive force---with long and medium range sams, dedicated sqdrns for the navy like the J 11's, submarines,a mixture of chinese 054 class frigates and some french frigates as well + the ohp's and we are in business.

A carrier will bog us down---it will be a back breaker and will be a cause of defeat either millitarily or economically.

I think you cant get a more realistic post than this. Pakistan has no requirement to project power and in the next decade, it has very little scope of fighting a battle that involves a dedicated naval asset as expensive as a carrier along with its bits and bobs.

Pakistan is better off investing in submarines and possible acquisition of stealth under water naval assets to balance out Indian plans for the next decade. Pakistan should counter India in order to ensure that a naval blockade or any such attempt can be neutralised. However, that too would cost the tax payers a lot of money. In the current economic climate, I doubt if PN can get the funds it needs to counter the growing conventional power of Indian navy even without mentioning Arihant.

 

[PakSher]

I think Pakistan is capable of strategic planning for the next decades. Yes India is very powerful that is why they lost 31% of land in Kashmir in 1948 and 1965. Yes, it is mighty powerful, but then 10 Pakistanis can comes to Mumbai and shake India upside down. Indiain military thinks small fighting with Pakistan or now competing with China on paper.

Pakistan has fought 3 wars with India which is 4 times it size. Pakistan alongvwith the financial assistance of the US and Saudis defeated the mighty USSR. Fought in the Arab-Israel wars and are deployed in numerous brotherly muslim countries. Now we are fighting the Talibaan to polish our terrorist fighting capabilities. These things are actual combat and not just talk talk talk, like India does with China.

 

[MastanKhan]

Paksher,

Sir, that is not an appropriate post----10 indians can do the same to any city pakistan and wreak the same havoc---so please don't say it anymore.

That is totally unacceptable---we donot preach this kind of mentality on this board nor do we accept this kind of post.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think if we put a request for AC now , in 5 years we could collect our carrier

Here is why ....

We spent $ on deals to bring in F16 C/D cash speant (Around 2004-2005)
We spent $ on awacs to be inducted 2013 cash speant (Around 2006, $6 billion)
We spent $ on J10B deals to get them 2015 cash speant (Around 2007)
We already spent $ on JF17 Thunder project in completed by 2015 (Around 2003, 400-900 million dollars invested in project)

USA owes us $500 Million dollars in delayed funds, for our defence , why don't we just invest that as a down payment with France on a Aircraft carrier with DCN french company that gave us Agosta ???

We will have extra funds between 2014-2018 , so if we , place and order now 2010 , with down payment , we can may be pay 2 installments one in 2015 , and 2 more installmented 2017, 2018

And we could have a perfect Aircract carrier for our Navy by 2018

Which aligns well will the projected upgrades to JF17 Thunder platform Block 2 , Block 3

While lets not forget our economy is proected to grow 8-10% annually so our GDP will automatically increase 2014-2018

So technically speaking we can afford it , not forgetting the iran - Pakistan gas piple line that will go to China , we will get transit fees of 300-400 million dollars/year which could be used to run the Aircraft carrier

And we could use JF17 thunder naval or Mirages for Air craft carriers

If we place an order now , we will get better rates as France and Pakistan share common goals on world agendas and strategic alliance



Already since France will offer us nuclear technology , US has approved our status as safe nuclear state

 

[Indiarox]

We should place an order for 1 Aircraft carrier so it would be ready in 3-4 years time and if we save for 3-5 years we should be able to afford it by then

In 3-4 years time , we will get getting revenue by supplying gas to china coming from iran and also our economy will be 100% healthy ...

By then our JF17 Thunder would also be ready with naval version so its a good idea to place and MOU with France , for 1 Aircraft carrier now - so by 2014-15 we will be ready to recive it

We are owed 500 million unpaid dues by US invest that fun into downpayment for a french aircraft carrier - and arrange for other 400-900 million dollars over 2-3 years

We get one Aircraft carrier with friends of Pakistan deal , and let do it and get one aircraft carrier

We can put 10 JF17 thunders, get 2 F22P frigates and 2 missile boats to protect the carrier ....

Getting a new is good as it will last us for 25 years !!

Also US is retiring some of its aircraft carriers if we plan properly we could get 1 of them for our navy

OK Pakistan buys a carrier where will you get the at-lest 2bill worth of plane and equipment for it and where will you get the (aprox)6bill worth of support ships,subs etc and how will you get the cash for at least 300mill+ cost of maintenance.

 

[Indiarox]

I think if we put a request for AC now , in 5 years we could collect our carrier

Here is why ....

We spent $ on deals to bring in F16 C/D cash speant (Around 2004-2005)
We spent $ on awacs to be inducted 2013 cash speant (Around 2006, $6 billion)
We spent $ on J10B deals to get them 2015 cash speant (Around 2007)
We already spent $ on JF17 Thunder project in completed by 2015 (Around 2003, 400-900 million dollars invested in project)

USA owes us $500 Million dollars in delayed funds, for our defence , why don't we just invest that as a down payment with France on a Aircraft carrier with DCN french company that gave us Agosta ???

We will have extra funds between 2014-2018 , so if we , place and order now 2010 , with down payment , we can may be pay 2 installments one in 2015 , and 2 more installmented 2017, 2018

And we could have a perfect Aircract carrier for our Navy by 2018

Which aligns well will the projected upgrades to JF17 Thunder platform Block 2 , Block 3

While lets not forget our economy is proected to grow 8-10% annually so our GDP will automatically increase 2014-2018

So technically speaking we can afford it , not forgetting the iran - Pakistan gas piple line that will go to China , we will get transit fees of 300-400 million dollars/year which could be used to run the Aircraft carrier

And we could use JF17 thunder naval or Mirages for Air craft carriers

If we place an order now , we will get better rates as France and Pakistan share common goals on world agendas and strategic alliance



Already since France will offer us nuclear technology , US has approved our status as safe nuclear state

Considering Pakistan's nuclear proliferation record i don't see that happening

 

[Indiarox]

Paksher,

Sir, that is not an appropriate post----10 indians can do the same to any city pakistan and wreak the same havoc---so please don't say it anymore.

That is totally unacceptable---we donot preach this kind of mentality on this board nor do we accept this kind of post.

Secular I like that

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Carrier Groups are a waste of money for a near ocean navy like ours. We do not have Islands to protect or the need to project power beyond our EEZ.

Our most vulnerable sea trade is oil. In case of War with India, we can project power from Straits of Hormuz to Gawader through our P3C's and our frigates.

Our submarines could blockade the entry into north western Arabian Sea along an 800 mile line running north to south from Karachi out to the sea. This "Sea Denial" patrol can be backed up by our AEW/AWACS assets and the land based Surveillance radar near Cape Monze.

The AEW/AWACS will and should be backed up by our dedicated Naval Strike element flying out of Masroor and Gwader airfields (Some work is being done on this to ensure fighter a/c operations along the airfields on the Makran coast.

The CG would be a liability -- India could not utilize effectively its carrier group during the 65' war. In 1971 it more or less operated out of the eastern command against the coastal zone in Bay of Bengal with impunity where we could not really project the land based Air Power beyond Dacca.

We should stick with the frigates, missile boats and the hammer -- the submarine backed up by our dedicated Air Assets.

Cheers!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

WASHINGTON: The Obama administration has implicitly accepted Pakistan’s status as a declared nuclear weapons state, countering conspiracy theories that the United States is secretly plotting to seize the country’s nuclear assets, says a US media report.


Reference:
DAWN.COM | World | US accepts Pakistan as a declared nuclear state

>So that is the end of the whole Nuclear profiliration theory

Now , I do not think that finances are an issue for Pakistan

2010 ~ 5 % annual growth (F16C/D, AWACs completion), #1 OHP,
2011 ~ 7 % annual growth, end of war on madness, #2 OHP
2012 ~ 10 % annual growth , energy crisis control with gas
pipe line completion dates, #3 OHP, Local F22P
Egypt JF17 thunder deal , money recieved
2013 ~ 10 % completion of power projects, stabalization of
economy , 4 F22P frigates,4 Chinese AWACs,
4 Turkish Corvettes, #4 OHP
2014 ~ 11 % J10B deal recieval , 10% GDP growth, 2 Type 054
Frigates, #5 OHP
2015 ~ 10 % annual growth ........extra funds 5 billion , #6 OHP ,
2Type 054 Frigates, J11 deal, J10B 100 +
2016 ~ 10 % annual growth........ extra funds 5 billion , Type 054
Frigates
2017 ~ 10 % annual growth ....... extra funds 5 billion, Type 05
Frigates
2018 ~ 10 % annual growth ... extra funds 5 billion

Please lets not forget 2012, is year our gas pipeline with Iran will yeild us more revenue from Iran - China deal 400-500 Million dollar/year

So placing a down payment on a Aircraft carrier now , 2010 is perfect , so that 3-4 years from now , we can use the extra funds to purchase the aircraft carrier, becasue really it will stay with us for 25+ years

 

[Indiarox]

WASHINGTON: The Obama administration has implicitly accepted Pakistan’s status as a declared nuclear weapons state, countering conspiracy theories that the United States is secretly plotting to seize the country’s nuclear assets, says a US media report.


Reference:
DAWN.COM | World | US accepts Pakistan as a declared nuclear state

>So that is the end of the whole Nuclear profiliration theory

Now , I do not think that finances are an issue for Pakistan

2010 ~ 5 % annual growth (F16C/D, AWACs completion), OHP,
2011 ~ 7 % annual growth, end of war on madness, OHP
2012 ~ 10 % annual growth , energy crisis control with gas
pipe line completion dates, OHP, Local F22P
Egypt JF17 thunder deal , money recieved
2013 ~ 10 % completion of power projects, stabalization of
economy , 4 F22P frigates, Chinese AWACs, Turkish Corvettes
2014 ~ 11 % J10B deal recieval , 10% GDP growth, 2Type 054
Frigates
2015 ~ 10 % annual growth ........extra funds 5 billion , OHP ,
2Type 054 Frigates, J11 deal, J10B 100 +
2016 ~ 10 % annual growth........ extra funds 5 billion , Type 054
Frigates
2017 ~ 10 % annual growth ....... extra funds 5 billion, Type 05
Frigates
2018 ~ 10 % annual growth ... extra funds 5 billion

Please lets not forget 2012, is year our gas pipeline with Iran will yeild us more revenue from Iran - China deal 400-500 Million dollar/year

So placing a down payment on a Aircraft carrier now , 2010 is perfect , so that 3-4 years from now , we can use the extra funds to purchase the aircraft carrier, becasue really it will stay with us for 25+ years

A lost dreamer you are

 

[LCA Tejas]

An Aircraft carrier for pakistan will indeed result in a loss.... An Aircraft carrier needs a lot of maintainace.... And when in war it should be protected, pakistan can never keep its Aircraft carrier out of reach of Enemy... So an Aircraft carrier would be a waste of money

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i kind of agree, in theory, to your first part

protecting it would be no problem for Pakistan. I don't think we'd be so stupid as to have it sitting around like a lame duck. It would be defended by air, and even by land

 

[LCA Tejas]

i kind of agree, in theory, to your first part

protecting it would be no problem for Pakistan. I don't think we'd be so stupid as to have it sitting around like a lame duck. It would be defended by air, and even by land

Well, you cannot use all your equipments for protecting one aircraft carrier.... and more over Do u really think that You can get that away from enemy radar?? Do you think the pakistani Aircraft carrier Can Settle in the dock for maintenance Peacefully??? I doubt, because All your docks are within the reach...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

First two points -- obviously not.

But in the event of war, we wouldnt need to even deploy a carrier. It would be pointless as hell.

We can hit you with ease using cruise missiles and engagements via air; mostly defensive and offensive-defence missions


depends on the scenario really; we are being too vague here.

 

[LCA Tejas]

First two points -- obviously not.

But in the event of war, we wouldnt need to even deploy a carrier. It would be pointless as hell.

We can hit you with ease using cruise missiles and engagements via air; mostly defensive and offensive-defence missions


depends on the scenario really; we are being too vague here.

Then what is the need for an aircraft carrier??? ....