Did India really 've OFFENSIVE doctrines??

[Kompromat]

The question is which NUMBERS do you know about India's strength

If you would be knowing the real numbers then I can assure you
that We have ACHIEVED such a DISSUASIVE strength that BOTH
the Potential aggresors China and Pakistan
will go into a Lip Biting conclave before deciding upon a violent
course of action

Being able to deter two strong enemies is NOT a small thing

And taking on two countries like Pakistan and China won't have pretty results Sir.

 

[Levina]

And taking on two countries like Pakistan and China won't have pretty results Sir.

And ergo our defensive stance.Kapish amigo??
India's playing smart is what I would say.

 

[ranjeet]

India can't afford to do that. Mark my words.

Like i said earlier, keep leaving in your own bubble. It was exactly this sense of invincibility and superiority which lead Pakistan on the path of Operation Gibraltar and Kargil. PA would overstep once more in over eagerness to find a solution for Kashmir and will be brought back to senses.

 

[Kompromat]

Like i said earlier, keep leaving in your own bubble. It was exactly this sense of invincibility and superiority which lead Pakistan on the path of Operation Gibraltar and Kargil. PA would overstep once more in over eagerness to find a solution for Kashmir and will be brought back to senses.

My opinion is based on people who are not only qualified but also have studied this prospect of Indian CSD. Any such exercise will lead to a defeat for the Indian IBGs. Pakistan can simply overwhelm the IBGs with brute use of conventional firepower. From Chemical, Biological, Thermobaric to stand off conventional ballistic missiles carrying cluster munitions which we produce ourselves with a stockpile of over 50,000 guided ATGMs on top of Pakistan's own conventional strength. CSD will lead to a slaughter of Indian CBGs which will mean either India starts a full blown war none of us will win or accept defeat and withdraw.

And ergo our defensive stance.Kapish amigo??
India's playing smart is what I would say.

Indian stance is anything BUT defensive.

It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war: Australian journalist Neville Maxwell - The Times of India

 

[kaku1]

It all started when admin Horus called Indian doctrines offensive while maintaining that our neighbor has always been mellifluous and had defensive doctrines.As discussing Op-Brasstacks and Op-Parakram was off topic on another thread I was asked to create a new thread.



Ignoratio elenchi!!

• Let me remind you that we have a "no first use policy" when it comes to nuclear arsenal.But Pakistan has been vague, Pakistan has stated that it may use its nuclear arsenal under a number of different circumstances including to fend off a conventional attack and even if India tries to strangle it economically.
• wasn't it the Pakistani tribesmen and militants who made it to Baramulla sector and ran amok?Kashmir (region, Indian subcontinent) :: The Kashmir problem -- Encyclopedia Britannica
• Or lets take Kargil, by a Pakistani officer 's confession (Capt.Sambal,8 Northern light Infantry) even the highest ranking officers of PA were aware of the infiltration.

And then you came up with your own version of Sunderji doctrine

which was later debunked here..
Indian Army News & Discussions | Page 84

I dont mind you debunking shibboleth's theories on Pakistan's defence budget but pls dont come up with statements which 've blunders of gargantuan proportions blaming things on India..If India aimed at revanchism then it would not 've maintained its stance that LOC should be made IB.


I pointed at WHY it was named Ghauri.


India's past doctrine??
which one?? Sunderji ,is it??
I've already proved you wrong on that.


so what was Op Brass Tacks??
Brasstacks crises was nothing but accidental crises, caused by Pakistan's misinterpretation.The magnitude and large scale direction of the exercise led to Pakistan fears that India was displaying an overwhelming conventional superiority and was planning to invade Pakistan, which came out of the lessons from '71 winter war.
Was India being offensive by not even firing a shot???
To prove its intentions were peaceful during the exercise, India took the unusual step of inviting diplomats and journalists to observe the operation separately. AFAIK even a Pakistani diplomat was invited.

ON INDIA'S BORDER, A HUGE MOCK WAR - New York Times


One,Operation Parakram was launched in the wake of the December 13, 2001 terrorist attack on Parliament and the 10 month deployment ended without a conflict.
Two,Op-Parakram had 3 aims mobilising the army to the border — defeating cross border terrorism without conflict,containing the national mood to “teach Pak a lesson” and in the case of war,degrading the neighbouring nation’s war fighting capabilities.
Three,after US and other western governments stepped in with diplomatic manoeuvres General Musharraf made an ashen faced commitment in a nationally telecast speech on January 12, 2002, that Pakistan “will not permit any terrorist activity from its soil” and then India backed-off.
Again was India being offensive here?


I wasnt expecting you to accept it with alacrity.You could 've avoided this debate had you not been polemic about India in your article.You should've restricted it to debunking the myths ONLY.


continued from this thread


*** Trolls not invited but contributors 're welcome***

Give me about the reason of TBM? Give me the reason of increasing of Nukes.

Instead of investing in BMD program for protecting city like Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi, Pak investing in nukes. Its a huge gambit, which has equal chances of succeed and failure of doctrine.

May be Pak decided that best defense is offense.

 

[Levina]

It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war: Australian journalist Neville Maxwell - The Times of India

when did I talk about China??
China is off topic here. Dont resort to such skittishness.
I'm still waiting for a reply that proves me wrong that India did not have offensive doctrines and an article by Behramnam.
but your statements clearly prove me right

Until then India will not be allowed to remain in peace nor realize its true economic or political potential.

I don't disagree with carrying out Kargil, i just disagree with not doing it properly.

ergo I conclude that Pakistan has provoked India into a war more than once.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

It all started when admin Horus called Indian doctrines offensive while maintaining that our neighbor has always been mellifluous and had defensive doctrines.As discussing Op-Brasstacks and Op-Parakram was off topic on another thread I was asked to create a new thread.



Ignoratio elenchi!!

• Let me remind you that we have a "no first use policy" when it comes to nuclear arsenal.But Pakistan has been vague, Pakistan has stated that it may use its nuclear arsenal under a number of different circumstances including to fend off a conventional attack and even if India tries to strangle it economically.
• wasn't it the Pakistani tribesmen and militants who made it to Baramulla sector and ran amok?Kashmir (region, Indian subcontinent) :: The Kashmir problem -- Encyclopedia Britannica
• Or lets take Kargil, by a Pakistani officer 's confession (Capt.Sambal,8 Northern light Infantry) even the highest ranking officers of PA were aware of the infiltration.

And then you came up with your own version of Sunderji doctrine

which was later debunked here..
Indian Army News & Discussions | Page 84

I dont mind you debunking shibboleth's theories on Pakistan's defence budget but pls dont come up with statements which 've blunders of gargantuan proportions blaming things on India..If India aimed at revanchism then it would not 've maintained its stance that LOC should be made IB.


I pointed at WHY it was named Ghauri.


India's past doctrine??
which one?? Sunderji ,is it??
I've already proved you wrong on that.


so what was Op Brass Tacks??
Brasstacks crises was nothing but accidental crises, caused by Pakistan's misinterpretation.The magnitude and large scale direction of the exercise led to Pakistan fears that India was displaying an overwhelming conventional superiority and was planning to invade Pakistan, which came out of the lessons from '71 winter war.
Was India being offensive by not even firing a shot???
To prove its intentions were peaceful during the exercise, India took the unusual step of inviting diplomats and journalists to observe the operation separately. AFAIK even a Pakistani diplomat was invited.

ON INDIA'S BORDER, A HUGE MOCK WAR - New York Times


One,Operation Parakram was launched in the wake of the December 13, 2001 terrorist attack on Parliament and the 10 month deployment ended without a conflict.
Two,Op-Parakram had 3 aims mobilising the army to the border — defeating cross border terrorism without conflict,containing the national mood to “teach Pak a lesson” and in the case of war,degrading the neighbouring nation’s war fighting capabilities.
Three,after US and other western governments stepped in with diplomatic manoeuvres General Musharraf made an ashen faced commitment in a nationally telecast speech on January 12, 2002, that Pakistan “will not permit any terrorist activity from its soil” and then India backed-off.
Again was India being offensive here?


I wasnt expecting you to accept it with alacrity.You could 've avoided this debate had you not been polemic about India in your article.You should've restricted it to debunking the myths ONLY.


continued from this thread


*** Trolls not invited but contributors 're welcome***

hmmm what would you get out of this proving something wrong.. yes Pakistan do have defensive policy in conventational war. and offensive in nuke..
thinking and thinking just to answer someone for what man..
think about solve Kashmir issue or you be comming here and trying to prove someone els wrong
waisting your energy and our time..
adios

 

[kaku1]

@levina Operation Parakaram was actually a operation for invading the Pak, you dont need a million soldiers just to stop the cross border terrorism, dont distort the history.

But it was total failure, it shows the lots of logistic problems and communication skill problem between three commands. The current doctrine is actually a successor of Sunderji Doctrine. The previous doctrine was to invade deep inside the enemy line, but now IA realized there is no use politically for such doctrine, to bring the Pak to negotiation tables, you need small territory left from International boundary.

 

[Levina]

hmmm what would you get out of this proving something wrong.. yes Pakistan do have defensive policy in conventational war. and offensive in nuke..
thinking and thinking just to answer someone for what man..
think about solve Kashmir issue or you be comming here and trying to prove someone els wrong
waisting your energy and our time..
adios

I was asked to open a thread and so I did. And its not merely about proving someone wrong, a wrong statement by the admin would regale a lot of trolls.And spread xenophobia...
And who doesnt want Kashmir issue to be solved? lets get over this once and for all.

@levina Operation Parakaram was actually a operation for invading the Pak, you dont need a million soldiers just to stop the cross border terrorism, dont distort the history.
.

Then why would India invite diplomats (incld from Pakistan) and journalists to prove its innocence? And the world did take India as innocent.

 

[ranjeet]

My opinion is based on people who are not only qualified but also have studied this prospect of Indian CSD. Any such exercise will lead to a defeat for the Indian IBGs. Pakistan can simply overwhelm the IBGs with brute use of conventional firepower. From Chemical, Biological, Thermobaric to stand off conventional ballistic missiles carrying cluster munitions which we produce ourselves with a stockpile of over 50,000 guided ATGMs on top of Pakistan's own conventional strength. CSD will lead to a slaughter of Indian CBGs which will mean either India starts a full blown war none of us will win or accept defeat and withdraw.

View attachment 161807



Indian stance is anything BUT defensive.

It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war: Australian journalist Neville Maxwell - The Times of India

Keep those scary sounding weapons in the holster, answer to your point is there in the page you uploaded."...it runs the risk of provoking or escalating a clash to break the nuclear threshold" doesn't necessarily means it that it would. This is where diplomatic pressure kicks in and considering it will be "India's response to Pakistan's proxy war strategy" Pakistan won't be able to garner much needed clout on the international platform. Stop believing that India won't retaliate to tantrums thrown around by Pakistan by keep the gun to it's own head. We might as well egg you on to pull the trigger if push came to shove.

 

[Kompromat]

I was asked to open a thread and so I did. And its not merely about proving someone wrong, a wrong statement by the admin would regale a lot of trolls.And spread xenophobia...
And who doesnt want Kashmir issue to be solved? lets get over this once and for all.

Then why would India invite diplomats (incld from Pakistan) and journalists to prove its innocence? And the world did take India as innocent.

Lipservice!

Keep those scary sounding weapons in the holster, answer to your point is there in the page you uploaded."...it runs the risk of provoking or escalating a clash to break the nuclear threshold" doesn't necessarily means it that it would. This is where diplomatic pressure kicks in and considering it will be "India's response to Pakistan's proxy war strategy" Pakistan won't be able to garner much needed clout on the international platform. Stop believing that India won't retaliate to tantrums thrown around by Pakistan by keep the gun to it's own head. We might as well egg you on to pull the trigger if push came to shove.

Why do we need international support when we can simply annihilate the Indian IBGs in a short war?

 

[kaku1]

I was asked to open a thread and so I did. And its not merely about proving someone wrong, a wrong statement by the admin would regale a lot of trolls.And spread xenophobia...
And who doesnt want Kashmir issue to be solved? lets get over this once and for all.

Then why would India invite diplomats (incld from Pakistan) and journalists to prove its innocence? And the world did take India as innocent.

Because the cause of invasion, was perfectly right. What the America did in Af after 9/11.

Ok give me one answer, why the Vajpayee govt. spent $2bn on Op Parakaram. If he really want to stop cross border terrorism, he should spent that money on RAW, and perfect its intelligence apparatus.

 

[Kompromat]

Because the cause of invasion, was perfectly right. What the America did in Af after 9/11.

Ok give me one answer, why the Vajpayee govt. spent $2bn on Op Parakaram. If he really want to stop cross border terrorism, he should spent that money on RAW, and perfect its intelligence apparatus.

Only that India is not US nor Pakistan is Afghanistan.

 

[kaku1]

@levina: Every country have its offensive doctrines, its a foolish question to ask.

India has cold start, Pak has TBM doctrine, America has Shock and Awe. The Army is not police, that role is fixed. All army has its contingency plans, inducing offensive plans. You cant win a war just by defense your motherland.

 

[Levina]

Lipservice!

Well what matters is that Pakistan could not prove that it had misinterpreted India's stance.

Because the cause of invasion, was perfectly right. What the America did in Af after 9/11.

Ok give me one answer, why the Vajpayee govt. spent $2bn on Op Parakaram. If he really want to stop cross border terrorism, he should spent that money on RAW, and perfect its intelligence apparatus.

For coercive diplomacy!!
The seat of democracy in sovereign India had been attacked. What should India have done? What followed was an exercise in coercive diplomacy through full-scale force deployment along the Pakistan border to force that country to stop cross-border terrorism and abandon the use of terror as an instrument of state policy.


Let me remind you Atal Bihari Vajpayee, at his first rally in Srinagar in April 2003, made the historic announcement of a peace initiative with Pakistan.