Did India gave it up too easily??

[RazPaK]

 

[A1Kaid]

whereas Siachen is still with us and congrats we took 2/3 of Kashmir and tore half your nation and you guys occupied an abandoned mountain peak we left in the brutal himalayan winter yeah you guys sure do have a lot to show

You cannot credit independence of Bangladesh to yourself, you had a role in it but the key factor was a hundred million plus Bengali traitors. As for Siachen, I'm not even sure if Pakistan army is that interested for the time being, as if PA can not start an operation and take it back. As for Kargil Pakistan still occupies highest point in Kargil overlooking critical supply lines. 1965 Pakistan won, mauled the Indian first armored division, and IAF, Rann of Kuch.

As for Kashmir, Pakistan has 1/3 Kashmir (plus Alsai Chin), though I agree with you Pakistan has to do more. Anything else is unacceptable.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

See Indians hate us because they cannot digest the fact that we separated from them and want nothing to do with them.

Lol if you had half a brain you would realize the general is personally introspecting on the Kargil war he says we lost a lot men for a strategic stalemate whereas we treat it as a victory

now refute this i am not saying we won strategically whereas tactically your objectives were; to capture and hold onto strategic mountain peaks that we abandoned in the winter and you guys ended up retreating our tactical objective was to take back lost territory and you guys did our jobs for us it is obvious we won tactically

btw why is your general crying Kargil was a bigger disaster than Bangladesh?

‘Kargil a bigger disaster than East Pakistan’ - World - DNA

 

[aakash_2410]

Get a life skinny india kid... the highest strategic peak in kargil still is in Pakistan... looks like ur airforces,arty,infantry division didnt have courage to get em back frm a few thousand lightly armed soldiers...

loooool I'm 5"11/6 and weigh 73 kgs. But heyy to you guys all the indians are skinny, dark, short and ugly. Whereas the truth is 8090% of Pakistan's population (Punjabis, Sindhis, Mojahirs) looks like this.

Oops!

And as fas as the Kargil-war is concerned. Your martial races had to retreat and "Kargil war result: Pakistani military retreat; India regains control of occupied territory"
Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and yeah not to forget we still control Siachen glacier.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

You cannot credit independence of Bangladesh to yourself, you had a role in it but the key factor was a hundred million plus Bengali traitors. As for Siachen, I'm not even sure if Pakistan army is that interested for the time being, as if PA can not start an operation and take it back. As for Kargil Pakistan still occupies highest point in Kargil overlooking critical supply lines. 1965 Pakistan won, mauled the Indian first armored division, and IAF, Rann of Kuch.

As for Kashmir, Pakistan has 1/3 Kashmir (plus Alsai Chin), though I agree with you Pakistan has to do more. Anything else is unacceptable.

why do your own people and many neutral authors say differently about 1965?

Truth of 1965 and 1971 war between india pakistan by pakistani journalist - YouTube

According to the Library of Congress Country Studies conducted by the Federal Research Division of the United States[76] –
The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy—on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.
TIME magazine reported that India held 690 mi2 of Pakistan territory while Pakistan held 250 mi2 of Indian territory in Kashmir and Rajasthan. Additionally, Pakistan had lost almost half its armour temporarily.[77] The article further elaborates,
Severely mauled by the larger Indian armed forces, Pakistan could continue the fight only by teaming up with Red China and turning its back on the U.N.
Devin T. Hagerty wrote in his book "South Asia in world politics"[78] –
The invading Indian forces outfought their Pakistani counterparts and halted their attack on the outskirts of Lahore, Pakistan's second-largest city. By the time United Nations intervened on September 22, Pakistan had suffered a clear defeat.
In his book "National identity and geopolitical visions",[79] Gertjan Dijkink writes –
The superior Indian forces, however, won a decisive victory and the army could have even marched on into Pakistani territory had external pressure not forced both combatants to cease their war efforts.
An excerpt from Stanley Wolpert's India,[80] summarizing the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965,
In three weeks the second Indo-Pak War ended in what appeared to be a draw when the embargo placed by Washington on U.S. ammunition and replacements for both armies forced cessation of conflict before either side won a clear victory. India, however, was in a position to inflict grave damage to, if not capture, Pakistan's capital of the Punjab when the cease-fire was called, and controlled Kashmir's strategic Uri-Poonch bulge, much to Ayub's chagrin.
In his book titled The greater game: India's race with destiny and China, David Van Praagh wrote[7] –
India won the war. It gained 1,840 square kilometers of Pakistani territory: 640 square kilometers in Azad Kashmir, Pakistan's portion of the state; 460 square kilometers of the Sailkot sector; 380 square kilometers far to the south of Sindh; and most critical, 360 square kilometers on the Lahore front. Pakistan took 540 square kilometers of Indian territory: 490 square kilometers in the Chhamb sector and 50 square kilometers around Khem Karan.
Dennis Kux's "India and the United States estranged democracies" also provides a summary of the war,[81]
Although both sides lost heavily in men and material, and neither gained a decisive military advantage, India had the better of the war. New Delhi achieved its basic goal of thwarting Pakistan's attempt to seize Kashmir by force. Pakistan gained nothing from a conflict which it had instigated.
BBC reported that the war served game changer in Pakistani politics,[82]
The defeat in the 1965 war led to the army's invincibility being challenged by an increasingly vocal opposition. This became a surge after his protege, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, deserted him and established the Pakistan People's Party.
"A region in turmoil: South Asian conflicts since 1947" by Robert Johnson mentions[8] –
India's strategic aims were modest – it aimed to deny Pakistani Army victory, although it ended up in possession of 720 square miles (1,900 km2) of Pakistani territory for the loss of just 220 square miles (570 km2) of its own.
An excerpt from William M. Carpenter and David G. Wiencek's "Asian security handbook: terrorism and the new security environment"[83] –
A brief but furious 1965 war with India began with a covert Pakistani thrust across the Kashmiri cease-fire line and ended up with the city of Lahore threatened with encirclement by Indian Army. Another UN-sponsored cease-fire left borders unchanged, but Pakistan's vulnerability had again been exposed.
English historian John Keay's "India: A History" provides a summary of the 1965 war[84] –
The 1965 Indo-Pak war lasted barely a month. Pakistan made gains in the Rajasthan desert but its main push against India's Jammu-Srinagar road link was repulsed and Indian tanks advanced to within a sight of Lahore. Both sides claimed victory but India had most to celebrate.
Uk Heo and Shale Asher Horowitz write in their book "Conflict in Asia: Korea, China-Taiwan, and India-Pakistan"[85] –
Again India appeared, logistically at least, to be in a superior position but neither side was able to mobilize enough strength to gain a decisive victory.

Bangladesh would have slowly become independent had we not intervened we just made it happen faster after your preemptive assault on IAF bases which failed btw

you do realize that Aksai Chin belongs to China and not Pakistan?

you guys can't do anything to us we would easily demolish you in a conventional war your own defense minister said the truth

India is Stronger than Pakistan: Pakistani Defense Minister - YouTube

go ahead celebrate occupying the one mountain peak its all that you got out of 5 wars whereas we took half your nation and Siachen.

 

[RazPaK]

That link was weak. The former General being replaced by Musharaf had his own motive to speak ill of Musharaf and the operation.

 

[RazPaK]

loooool I'm 5"11/6 and weigh 73 kgs. But heyy to you guys all the indians are skinny, dark, short and ugly. Whereas the truth is 8090% of Pakistan's population (Punjabis, Sindhis, Mojahirs) looks like this.

Oops!

And as fas as the Kargil-war is concerned. Your martial races had to retreat and "Kargil war result: Pakistani military retreat; India regains control of occupied territory"
Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and yeah not to forget we still control Siachen glacier.

Yes all of us Pakistanis look like that.



While you Indians look like this.

 

[A1Kaid]

Indian Lt. Gen. Kishan Pal who served in Kargil


Not convinced we won Kargil Lt Gen Kishan Pal to NDTV - YouTube


You provide some BS Najam Hindu Sethi who has no knowledge of military affairs and is just a commentator here is a source from your own LT. Gen. who commanded Indian Army in Kargil.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

^ ‘Kargil a bigger disaster than East Pakistan’ - World - DNA

PAKISTANI GENERAL: KARGIL BIGGER DISASTER THAN EAST PAKISTAN.

 

[Bang Galore]

As for Siachen, I'm not even sure if Pakistan army is that interested for the time being, as if PA can not start an operation and take it back.

Siachen? Your guys can't even see the glacier let alone get anywhere near it. I know you chaps like to go on & on about your troops in Siachen but the truth is that there are no Pakistani troops anywhere on the Siachen glacier & since Indian troops hold all the high peaks of the Saltoro Ridge, your chaps don't even get a glimpse of the Siachen glacier. It is this absolute failure that scares the Pakistanis from authenticating their positions because all the stories told back home will be laid bare as just that; stories & not very good ones at that. Your SSG chaps tried some stuff in 1995 but after being beaten back with losses, they pretty much gave up the ghost. Now Pakistanis keeping begging at the table to try & achieve what they could not win by force.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

You have to understand the historical humiliation and violence the Hindus have suffered from for over a thousand years. Many civilizations have conquered them, the Muslims empires, Arabs, Turkic, Timur, Afghans, and the British. After centuries and in fact a millennium of defeat and humiliation and slavery is going to depress the population and ruin their self-esteem.

The British were slightly different from the conquerors in the sense they did a better job dividing the Hindustanis and brainwashing them and setting up a system in Hind one they developed. It is understandable why many have this inferiority complex, the Indian has been a defeated race for the greater part of a millennium. This is not to say they haven't made small achievements here and there.

I would rather appreciate the hindus who even after so much of opression and facing bad times didnt change their origin or culture...before laughing on Hindus, you should first ask yourself and fellow pakistanis whats their origin..and by origin I mean not the nationality but the true identity ..which could have been kept intact, if they hadnt GIVEN IN

 

[RazPaK]

I would rather appreciate the hindus who even after so much of opression and facing bad times didnt change their origin or culture...before laughing on Hindus, you should first ask yourself and fellow pakistanis whats their origin..and by origin I mean not the nationality but the true identity ..which could have been kept intact, if they hadnt GIVEN IN

I am a Muslim Pakistani Arain. Do we have a problem?

 

[seethru]

I am a Muslim Pakistani Arain. Do we have a problem?

.....meaning?

 

[illusion8]

Generalization alert!
After 10 posts and some what stupid debate here at PDF. I now understand why some people say things like:

Chinese guys are some of most incoherent speakers i spoke to.(this is probably the reason for other stereotype -They also suck big time with girls.)

LOL u r so right, and u cannot argue or have a decent discussion with STUPID. You'll always lose.

 

[seethru]

You have to understand the historical humiliation and violence the Hindus have suffered from for over a thousand years. Many civilizations have conquered them, the Muslims empires, Arabs, Turkic, Timur, Afghans, and the British. After centuries and in fact a millennium of defeat and humiliation and slavery is going to depress the population and ruin their self-esteem.

The British were slightly different from the conquerors in the sense they did a better job dividing the Hindustanis and brainwashing them and setting up a system in Hind one they developed. It is understandable why many have this inferiority complex, the Indian has been a defeated race for the greater part of a millennium. This is not to say they haven't made small achievements here and there.

Interestingly, same thing can be said about the so called Muslim civilization. starting from the fall of ottoman empire and continuing now.

And if i may, You are the RESULT of the Muslims empires Arabs, Turkic, Timur, Afghans conquest of India.