Destroy ISI - Indian NSA Advisor

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Just to poke some more holes in your ridiculous argument of "access to the diplomatic zone", here is an account of their attack on the US Embassy:

KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- The Taliban have claimed responsibility for a massive suicide car bombing that killed at least 18 people -- including two U.S. soldiers -- near the U.S. Embassy in Kabul.

"A coalition convoy was the target of a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device this morning near the U.S. Embassy here," according to Master Sgt. Chris Miller. The convoy was comprised of three armored Humvees.

Journalist Tom Coghlan said the Humvee that bore the brunt of the explosion had its turret blown 30 yards from the site the the attack. The blast spread debris and body parts across the Massoud roundabout, about 50 yards from the embassy.

CNN.com - Taliban claim deadly Kabul bombing - Sep 8, 2006

Now if they can get within 50 yards of the US embassy, they can get to the Indian embassy.

 

[Flintlock]

I have shown that the Taliban and AQ have carried out equally devastating, well planned and executed attacks, in even better defended circumstances and areas. That is basically your speculative argument, that the attack was in a "well defended area, so it had to be the ISI", since that has been shown to not be a hindrance in other attacks by the Taliban, your argument is invalid. Try again.

Where have they carried out attacks? If they managed to penetrate the Presidential Palace compound, then you have a story.

Do you know where the Indian embassy is? Its inside one of the most fortified and guarded areas in the world - the Afghan Presidential Palace compound - right next to the Presidential Palace itself.

You don't get to enter that place unless you have friends in high places.
And you don't get to know when the Indian Defence Attache enters and leaves his office unless you have some highly placed mole.

Alternatively, the Taliban also denied the Islamabad bombing, which was also in the middle of the Capital, in a heavily defended area, when the GoP was expecting an attack - all that evidence, using your logic, points to a well planned, executed and sophisticated attack, and since the Taliban have denied it, it could only have been India.

Oh please, Middle of the Capital is hardly a guarded place. India has plenty of murders, thefts and bombings in its capital Delhi.

 

[Flintlock]

Just to poke some more holes in your ridiculous argument of "access to the diplomatic zone", here is an account of their attack on the US Embassy:



Now if they can get within 50 yards of the US embassy, they can get to the Indian embassy.

Yeah, and when they did, they proudly proclaimed their success to the world.

 

[maqsad]

Do you know where the Indian embassy is? Its inside one of the most fortified and guarded areas in the world - the Afghan Presidential Palace compound - right next to the Presidential Palace itself.

You don't get to enter that place unless you have friends in high places.
And you don't get to know when the Indian Defence Attache enters and leaves his office unless you have some highly placed mole.

Very interesting indeed. So it was not a random lucky hit but in fact was coordinated with either Karzai govt authorities, Indian embassy authorities or both.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Where have they carried out attacks? If they managed to penetrate the Presidential Palace compound, then you have a story.

They managed to penetrate a heavy security cordon that was expecting an attack, given that it was the anniversary of the LM operation. It couldn't get more protected and guarded than this.

Do you know where the Indian embassy is? Its inside one of the most fortified and guarded areas in the world - the Afghan Presidential Palace compound - right next to the Presidential Palace itself.

You don't get to enter that place unless you have friends in high places.
And you don't get to know when the Indian Defence Attache enters and leaves his office unless you have some highly placed mole.

The Ambassador and his deputy were not even there, who would have certain targets. Just bad luck for the two officials.

You are the one refusing to post details with links on what kinds of security cordons were in place, and what otherworldly defenses were breached that could have only been done with the help of the ISI.

What expertise can the ISI provide to get a car full of explosives past security checkpoints?

"It is our reconstruction of events that the intention of the attacker was to detonate the device within the premises of the embassy and destroy the embassy," Prasad told The Associated Press.

A review of the bomb scene showed that one of the embassy guards killed in the blast still had his hand on the closed gate. The guard likely hadn't opened it because he saw a suspicious car driving close behind an embassy vehicle, Prasad said.

"The suicide attacker then decided to explode his device outside rather than inside, so the maximum impact was taken by the (sand-filled blast) barriers," he said. "So the damage to the embassy wasn't structural."

The blast barriers were installed in the last several weeks, Prasad said, because "we were expecting trouble.

It seems like the car just drove up to the Embassy gates behind an embassy vehicle, got spotted, and blew up when the gates were being closed - nothing sophisticated here.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yeah, and when they did, they proudly proclaimed their success to the world.

Actually, they initially did:

Taliban claims Kabul embassy blast​

The Taliban has claimed responsibility for the deadliest suicide bombing in Afghanistan's capital Kabul since the US-led invasion in 2001.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/07/07/2297071.htm

There is also no one single Taliban organization in Afghanistan, nor are they the only type of group fighting in Afghanistan.

But amid a well-coordinated assassination attempt on Afghan President Hamid Karzai and large-scale bombings last week in the capitals of both Afghanistan and Pakistan, U.S. forces are keenly aware that they are facing an increasingly complex enemy here—what U.S. military officials now call a syndicate—composed not only of Taliban fighters but also powerful warlords who were once on the payroll of the Central Intelligence Agency. "You could almost describe the insurgency as having two branches," says a senior U.S. military official here. "It's the Taliban in the south and a 'rainbow coalition' in the east."

Indeed, along with a smattering of Afghan tribal groups, Pakistani extremists, and drug kingpins, two of the most dangerous players are violent Afghan Islamists named Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and Jalaluddin Haqqani, according to U.S. officials. In recent weeks, Hekmatyar has called upon Pakistani militants to attack U.S. targets, while the Haqqani network is blamed for three large vehicle bombings, along with the attempted assassination of Karzai in April.
Afghan Warlords, Formerly Backed By the CIA, Now Turn Their Guns On U.S. Troops - US News and World Report

The denial was from the spokesman of just one Taliban group.

And by the way, the Taliban have also proudly claimed every other bombing in Pakistan against security forces - but not this one...

 

[Flintlock]

ISI, al Qaeda planned Kabul blast: Sources

VK Shashikumar / CNN-IBN

New Delhi: The Afghanistan government and Indian Intelligence Agencies have confirmed that some elements within the ISI in collaboration with the Taliban/Al Qaeda planned and executed the attack on the Indian embassy.

Intelligence sources told CNN-IBN that Azam Khan, the ISI Station Head in Kabul, is collaborating with the Taliban to destabilise India's strategic presence in Afghanistan.

Sources say that the Pakistani Army, specifically, the 324 Military Intelligence Battalion based in Peshawar, was involved in planning the attack on the Indian Embassy with the help of the Taliban/Al Qaeda.

"The sophistication of this attack and the kind of material that was used in it, and the specific targeting, everything has the hallmark of a particular intelligence agency that has conducted similar terrorist acts in Afghanistan. So, we have sufficient evidence to say that,” says Afghan presidential spokesman, Humayun Hamidzada.

Afghanistan has once again become a hotbed of Pakistani intelligence operations. And a major cause is India's increasing involvement in strategic infrastructure projects in the region.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/isi-al-qaeda-planned-kabul-blast-sources/68541-2.html?xml

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^ and we have some more nonsense and lies from the Indian and Afghan side.

Some more gobbeldy gook about "sophistication", which gullible (or anti-paksitan prejudiced) Indians will wallow up to and regurgitate in the hope that people will read "sophistication, and well planned" and not question what exactly was so "sophisticated and well planned" that has not been done by AQ in Iraq, or the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan already.

You have shied away from answering any detailed questions Flintlock, and you haven't shown how this attack was more "sophisticated and well planned" than the attack on the US embassy, or various other well defended targets that have been mentioned.

Nor have you adequately explained why the Islamabad bombing should not be attributed to India using your logic that the Taliban did not claim it.

 

[Flintlock]

Wait, I'll reply to your posts.

In the mean time, read this:

Mr Menon said: “We have no doubt that the ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence) is behind this. We are in the favour of the peace process, but the ISI is not in anyway part of it,” Mr Narayanan told NDTV channel yesterday. “The ISI is playing evil. The ISI needs to be destroyed.”
However, while blaming ISI for the attacks, Mr Narayanan made a distinction between the ISI and the Pakistan government. “I hold the ISI guilty but I do not hold the Pakistani government complicit in this,” he said.

The Statesman

 

[Flintlock]

They managed to penetrate a heavy security cordon that was expecting an attack, given that it was the anniversary of the LM operation. It couldn't get more protected and guarded than this.

It was an open street. There was no cordon to penetrate.

The Ambassador and his deputy were not even there, who would have certain targets. Just bad luck for the two officials.

The Ambassador was inside the building at the time of the attack.

You are the one refusing to post details with links on what kinds of security cordons were in place, and what otherworldly defenses were breached that could have only been done with the help of the ISI.

Every person entering the compound is frisked, and vehicles are stopped and checked at guard posts. Don't you know the standard procedures?

The bombers managed to clear security checks and drive right up to the gates of the embassy. Moreover, they knew exactly when to attack so that they can take out the official.

What expertise can the ISI provide to get a car full of explosives past security checkpoints?

They can do an inside job of it. Afghans and Indians also claim that the bombers were trained by the ISI, which is also quite likely.

It seems like the car just drove up to the Embassy gates behind an embassy vehicle, got spotted, and blew up when the gates were being closed - nothing sophisticated here.

Very sophisticated. You can't follow an official vehicle into a protected zone without getting stopped and checked a couple of times.

 

[maqsad]

The bombers managed to clear security checks and drive right up to the gates of the embassy. Moreover, they knew exactly when to attack so that they can take out the official.



They can do an inside job of it. Afghans and Indians also claim that the bombers were trained by the ISI, which is also quite likely.



Very sophisticated. You can't follow an official vehicle into a protected zone without getting stopped and checked a couple of times.

Am I missing something here? Because last time I checked the ISI did not have the security contract for the Indian embassy so since you insist it was an INSIDE JOB one can quite logically also extend it one small step further and say false flag attack.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

^^^ and we have some more nonsense and lies from the Indian and Afghan side.

Some more gobbeldy gook about "sophistication", which gullible (or anti-paksitan prejudiced) Indians will wallow up to and regurgitate in the hope that people will read "sophistication, and well planned" and not question what exactly was so "sophisticated and well planned" that has not been done by AQ in Iraq, or the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan already.

You have shied away from answering any detailed questions Flintlock, and you haven't shown how this attack was more "sophisticated and well planned" than the attack on the US embassy, or various other well defended targets that have been mentioned.

Nor have you adequately explained why the Islamabad bombing should not be attributed to India using your logic that the Taliban did not claim it.

Indeed, it is only Indians who lap up goggledygooks! And the Pakistan bank on RAW facts? Good if you feel that Pakistanis bank on the Gospel Truth!

Pakistan has always attributed everything, not only bombing, but every woe at India's doorstep. I am sure you have seen enough of such a testament on this very forum, including the rather amusing accusation of the poster who has a difficult moniker to remember "Xy- something or the other", who claims to be a Salafi and has lambasted Asim!!, that I am from R&AW! Imagination is not the prerogative of Indians.

How is the bombing sophisticated? It obvious that those who have observed the bombingsand understand military and military like operations would know the difference. While the other bombings did kill people, but not anyone of importance. The timing of the suicide bomber to ram his vehicle coinciding with the entrance of the Military Attaché and the Counsellor indicates excellent coordination and superior intelligence inputs. Hence, sophisticated.

To plan such an operation and execute it with such precision is indeed sophistication worth note.

 

[sayubi]

The rights and wrongs, and the facts of this matter all depend on one's partisan position. It is nearly impossible to be objective about an issue like this.

The thing that strikes me in Narayanan's statement is that it is an entirely new note he is striking. It is 'normal' for Indian officials to blame Pakistan for terrorist attacks, but highly unusual to openly call for retaliation at such a high level of government.

Also, I doubt very much that Narayanan wouldn't be aware that ISI is in fact not a rogue agency and is in fact an integral part of Pakistan's military apparatus. This is common knowledge among anyone who follows Indian security matters with any degree of interest. I have always felt that there was a kind of mischievous divisive intent on the part of India in setting up this kind of artificial division between 'good Pakistan that we can do business with' and the 'bad ISI that is causing the problem.'

As an Indian partisan, I hope that this division has the effectm which I think is intended--whenever Pakistan is ultimately persuaded to relinquish its warfare against India, it can save face by pointing to the 'bad' ISI that caused all the trouble. In turn, this kind of distinction also provides maneuvring space domestically within India, when the government is faced with explaining why it is making peace with an enemy that is bent on destroying it. After all, it was never the fault of 'Pakistan' but that of ISI.

So, Narayanan may be telling a well-thought out lie when he blames the ISI and paints it as a rogue. Calling for its 'destruction' is meant to send some sort of signal to Pakistan that it can expect things to escalate.

Or it could all just be a bluff, just to get Pakistan all nervous and upset.

In any case, I would agree with the poster who said Narayanan is no fool, and knows what he is doing/saying.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The thing that strikes me in Narayanan's statement is that it is an entirely new note he is striking. It is 'normal' for Indian officials to blame Pakistan for terrorist attacks, but highly unusual to openly call for retaliation at such a high level of government.

This jolted me too!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Indeed, it is only Indians who lap up goggledygooks! And the Pakistan bank on RAW facts? Good if you feel that Pakistanis bank on the Gospel Truth!

Pakistan has always attributed everything, not only bombing, but every woe at India's doorstep. I am sure you have seen enough of such a testament on this very forum, including the rather amusing accusation of the poster who has a difficult moniker to remember "Xy- something or the other", who claims to be a Salafi and has lambasted Asim!!, that I am from R&AW! Imagination is not the prerogative of Indians.

India has been no different, and that does not take away from the holes in India's argument in this particular case.

How is the bombing sophisticated? It obvious that those who have observed the bombingsand understand military and military like operations would know the difference. While the other bombings did kill people, but not anyone of importance. The timing of the suicide bomber to ram his vehicle coinciding with the entrance of the Military Attaché and the Counsellor indicates excellent coordination and superior intelligence inputs. Hence, sophisticated.

To plan such an operation and execute it with such precision is indeed sophistication worth note.

Why was there any timing involved? Why not sheer luck? One would think that if any particular staff were to be targeted then the ambassador and his deputy, neither of whom was at the entrance, would be the ones being targeted.

In fact one of the links mentioned indicates that Indian sources believe that the Embassy structure itself was being targeted, and the bomber detonated prematurely, so that too shoots down the "precision timing" argument.

Going by the details from some of your own people, the suspects were following behind an Embassy vehicle, that is not "sophistication" but "opportunity".

Join in the rubbish analysis Salim - none of you have shown how this attack is any more sophisticated or better planned than any of the others mentioned.

Merely typing "sophisticated and well planned" repeatedly does not make it so, except in India's book apparently, which is the rubbish it has been spewing all these years against the ISI anyway.

Try answering some of the questions I posed in detail.