Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

and sorry, you are right about the mini, rafale can carry that in stand off strike mode.and thats a big thing!!

Yes, hopefully getting Scalp and adding Brahmos mini would make it a hell of a deep and maritime strike platform, although both are quiet costly weapons.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Just a little point, whch may solve some issues. F3R is a SOFTWARE standard, fully retrofittable to previous standards...

The F3R is a French mil-specific update with almost negligible benefits to the IAF. What's more interesting, for India, will be the F4 and beyond that.

 

[IND151]

Dassault carrying out gap analysis of HAL’s capabilities | idrw.org

 

[trident2010]

Hope we sort the deal as soon as possible.

 

[Dash]

Y the thread title changed?

 

[ejaz007]

India’s M-MRCA Fighter Competition: Is the Deal In Trouble?

Dec 26/13: Dassault Aviation is reportedly conducting gap analysis of state-owned HAL’s fighter plane production capabilities. There may be quite a few, given HAL’s recent performance on a number of other projects. HAL officials say that they have a structure in place to do something meaningful with the recommendations:

“HAL has created a dedicated full time MMRCA Project Group in May 2012 and it is operational since then. Action groups have been created at all HAL divisions taking part in the MMRCA programme. All groups are working in a coordinated manner to interact with the Original Equipment Manufacturers.


http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/mirage-2000s-withdrawn-as-indias-mrca-fighter-competition-changes-01989/

 

[halloweene]

The F3R is a French mil-specific update with almost negligible benefits to the IAF. What's more interesting, for India, will be the F4 and beyond that.

I think India will be interested in enhanced radar and spectra capabilities, IFF 5/S, maybe in meteor integration also.

 

[sancho]

I think India will be interested in enhanced radar and spectra capabilities, IFF 5/S, maybe in meteor integration also.

IFF 5/S is mainly an improvement for the interoperability with NATO forces and just like Link 16 won't have a big importance for India. When you compare the F3R and what the UAE might get to Rafale, you can clearly see which upgrades (that both are actually aimed on a similar timeframe) will create much more interest to IAF.

(* => interesting for India)

F3-R upgrade:

- Meteor + radar enhancements *
- improved SPECTRA*
- improved air-to-ground fire control*

- PDL-NG targeting pod (depends on LDP decision for M2K UPG)
[- low collateral damage weapon] (interest will depend on weapon selection, AASM 125 would not be that interesting for sure)

- IFF Mode 5/S (aimed on NATO operations)
- improved Link16 (aimed on NATO operations)
- improved capabilities for RECO-NG pod (IAF is more likely to keep using available fighters, or add LCA for this role, next to more UAVs)
- new refueling pod (not needed by IAF)


Possible UAE upgrades:

- radar enhancements (longer range, more A2G modes)*
- SPECTRA enhancements*
- integrations of heavy strike configs with 2 or 3 x 2000lb LGBs or cruise missiles* (definitely a point, for strike mission on the eastern front!)
- integration of HMS* (MMRCA requirement!)
- integration of SLAM-ER missile* (IAF rejected Exocet in favour for Harpoon in Jag upgrade and SLAM-ER would just increase the advantages over Exocet again)
- integration of AL-Tariq PGM* (the recent decision of UAE to add it to M2K-9, makes it clear that they would use it instead of AASM in a Rafale too. It's longer range capabilities and most likely a lower cost, makes it attractive too)

- M88 engine enhancements (not needed, but wouldn't mind it)
- opening of external wingstations (if the UAE funds it, why not)
- integration of Sniper pod (would be at least a cheaper and more capable alternative to current Damocles)

So by all means, the F3R has not that much effect on India, like the UAE upgrades might have.

 

[halloweene]

Opening the external wingstations is done on experimental Rafale in Istres (different to qualification by AdlA). and UAE no more ask for RBE2AA enhancement. Prototype largely exceeded specs at CEAM Mt de Marsan (more than double range). 2 cruise missile config is already qualified, yes 3 was at a time demand of the UAE. No idea how it goes nowadays.
Anw, as F3R is a software standard, it may interest india.
Damocles was designed in order to hit at long distance and is not really fit to low collateral damge etc., Still it has qualities like a very powerful laser.

 

[sancho]

Opening the external wingstations is done on experimental Rafale in Istres (different to qualification by AdlA). and UAE no more ask for RBE2AA enhancement. Prototype largely exceeded specs at CEAM Mt de Marsan (more than double range). 2 cruise missile config is already qualified, yes 3 was at a time demand of the UAE. No idea how it goes nowadays.
Anw, as F3R is a software standard, it may interest india.
Damocles was designed in order to hit at long distance and is not really fit to low collateral damge etc., Still it has qualities like a very powerful laser.

The heavy config for Salp is ready yet, but not for GBU 24, or exocet, which both are limited to a single weapon according to French forces needs. An increased load capability especially for the heavy bombs will surely be interesting for IAF and if the UAE also adds SLAM-ER and Al-Tariq in these heavy configs, you have more capability at lower costs compared to current config with French weapons.


Models from Paris Air Show showing possible UAE configs:

 

[halloweene]

Btw, there is an old test with heavy config from Flight. 3x 2000L, 2 Scalps, 4 Mica. Mach 0.6 to 0.9 35 secs, roll rate 150°, up to 5.2g

 

[Taygibay]

For those interested in reality, the Rafale's pinpoint strike configuration allows for 3 GBU-24. As for the lone Exocet central point config, it is consequence of the fact that on a carrier, one would not want to attempt to land with a dissymetric load after having left with two underwings missiles and fired one. Nothing forbids 3 Scalps either. The Marine's ( CDG ) use the central point for the aforementioned reason and the AF uses the points 3 & 12. But since there are 5 points open for the use of the Scalp ( 3-4-8-11-12 ) the max load for it would be 5 missiles. Of course, while the aircraft could take-off, it would lack any external fuel and thus have to fire the weapons barely out of the airport' security zone and immediately come back to base. Still, that shows the difference between possible and useful or possible and practical, concepts that are lost on some people & have them say incorrect stuff out of confusion.
This image gives the open points although the 2 and 13 MICA ones have not been opened yet IIRC.

<a href="Free Web Proxy - FreeWebProxy.com"><img src="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/1mzi4.gif" alt="Free Web Proxy"></a>

Good day all, Tay.

 

[halloweene]

Points 2 and 13 are being opened on experimental B301 in Istres (Vianney Riller Jr saw them), which is far different from being qualified Armée de l'air.

 

[halloweene]

In this document (in french), it is stated that during flight trials, an "agressive" pilot has flown RAfale as slow as ... 15 Kts... And it was before opening high incidence domain...

Dropbox - 27chap22.pdf

 

[halloweene]

According to Aerospace Diary: EXCLUSIVE! MMRCA- New Year Tidings

MMRCA before 15 feb.