Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Gra_Vity]

=kaykay;2584718]44 facts about the MMRCA

1. French naval Rafales were once ‘nailed to the ground’ after a virus infection.

- Virus Infection to the plane?

2. Eurofighter came across as cheaper than Gripen In Austria on the basis of its payment plan.

-Austria is European nation and better relation with european four countries how they give such benifit to india. Moreover there is no such proposal for India.

3. Some believed that the selection of the GE414 engine for LCA over Eurojet meant Gripen, F/A-18 had an edge in the MMRCA.

Explain

4. Contrary to popular belief, the MMRCA tender process was not completely spotless.

Explain

5. Boeing offered more power for the F/A-18 SuperHornet it offered for the contest.

American strategy not suitable. Do u forget ban due to nuke test what about TOT. We have no complete info. Cant believe claim.

6. The previous IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik, apprehended graft complaints by the losers to the Chief Vigilance Commissioner.

How they dare to do that? Kick them for any project. yet no complaint made by anyone.

7. The Eurofighter is the only aircraft of the MMRCA-6 that has never given a back-seat ride to any Indian.

Humh.....

8. Only the MiG-35 has never been in a combat operation, after Libya 2011.

Humh..

9. How long to sign on the Rafale? IAF Mirage-2000 upgrade took 5 years to bargain to USD 2.4 B & USD 1.23 B for MICA missiles.

Scedule is there no negotiation big contract more money bid already given no apprehension.

10. Normally, the Ministry of Defense sends loser the letter and calls winner in for a chat. In the case of the MMRCA, it was the reverse.

Explain

11. The F-16 aircraft has a really stiff joystick on the left side of the seat.

12. All you TopGun fans, that fighter was the F-14. Tomcat pilots initially hated the idea of converting to Hornets.

13. The F-16 is flown by 24 other countries. 25, now, with the Iraqi order.

14. Even after selection of Rafale, all 5 other aircraft cos wait with curiosity. Yes they do. Context.

15. The math for comparing the bids of Rafale & Eurofighter was completed by the 1st week of Dec 2011.

Other parameters and goverernment sanctions r necessary. Gov reports not one day work many things required to do.

16. The contest is governed by 2006 rules, though rules were last updated in Jan 2011 | StratPost

Good for whom?

17. Indian security minsters group can disregard the lowest bid and award the contract for strategic reasons.

No claim. Rafale bid was less if i m not mistaking

18. Rafale won only because Eurofighter was the only other aircraft shortlisted.

Common man Rafale defeated other 4 aircraft too

19. Gripen replaced MiG-21 in the Czech Republic and Eurofighter replaced MiG-29 in Germany (brought about to replace the F-4).

LCA will replace Mig 21.

20. In theory, this is how Gripen would operate off public roads.
Better Aircraft LCA must have such capabilities.

21. Gripen only aircraft built by UN Security Council non-member, hence claimed to be free of political considerations.

How its concluded. Boforce were from Sweden. France always support even on nuclear test too.

22. Proof of concept: F/A-18 can operate off public roads too.

Source buddy.

23. Only F/A-18 SuperHornet & F-16IN of the six aircraft satisfy the key IAF requirement of an operational AESA radar.

No Info

24. The F-16IN had the single most powerful engine of all 6 aircraft in the competition.

We have double engine fighter incase of one engine failed not craft loss.
Pak piloots have advantage on f 16 yrs of experience.

25. F/A-18 Super Hornet was accused of being underpowered, inspite of having offered a more powerful engine.

There was competition final exam not a tution test. Usa later on cry to offer f-35 too. But after exam u reember every thing of paper.

26. Rafale pissed off the UAE last year when a newspaper owned by Dassault said Israel provided it security assistance.

27. Rafale lost to F-16 in Morocco and Sarkozy said ‘the better aircraft won’ (see Wikileaks).

Mig 21 won over us fighters in air exercises between us and india. The news were second world war plane win over the us fighters. If i m not mmistaking.

28. India will be the first and largest export customer for the Rafale if the contract is signed.

YEAH thats True

29. Rafale was once thrown out of the contest.

Source

30. At the time of being kicked out, the excuse given was Rafale had low thrust to weight ratio .

Source

31. Eurofighter’s left wing built in Italy, right in Spain & fuselage divided between UK & Germany.

This is Great fighter


32. Four of the six aircraft also made offers to Indian Navy, even though only 2 of them were carrier capable. F-35 JSF also pitched.
Humm...the advantage once airforce select a fighter also may be by navy for advantages

33. Eurofighter and Gripen offered Indian Navy a carrier-borne naval concept. F/A-18 SuperHornet & Rafale were other two.
Totally Four

34. The 4 aircraft ejected from the contest have only recently begun having their bid documentation returned to them.

What?

35. IAF considered a total of 643 parameters to test the six aircraft in field evaluation trials.

Which r they plz tell me.instead these points

36. Four of the six aircraft were ejected from the contest exactly the day before their commercial bids were to expire.

Humm..

37. The contest saw lost files & attempted bribery at the Bangalore Air Show, AeroIndia.
Garbage slum dog millionaire. Dont know they r Aryans not slave dog og english or white.

38. The last US ambassador to India resigned the day after both the two US aircraft were ejected.
What rubbish
t
39. The F-35 JSF is waiting in the wings it it doesn’t work out. Kinda: US offers India the JSF.

40. Rules require MMRCA winner to plow back 50% of the order value into Indian industry.
And out of that 50% 80% to be deposited in swiss banks in_____________accounts.

41. The cost of the Rafale and Eurofighter was evaluated from the exchange rate at the Parliament Street branch of the State Bank of India in New Delhi.
Wow...

42. Dassault stock rose 22% when the Rafale was announced L1, but could practically benefit only stockholders with 3.13% share.
Always

43. EADS, one of the parent companies of the Eurofighter, owns 46% of Dassault, the manufacturer of the Rafale.
Wow...why hue and cry by britons.

44. This contest tested all six aircraft by requiring them to land and take off from the highest altitude, ever
Ok.......

 

[praveen007]

Google Translate
++

.
'C'est ça'
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BRASILIA - After so many comings and goings, the government is finally hitting the hammer in favor of the Rafale, the French Dassault, to renew its fleet of FAB. The notice must be in the first half, but only after May 6, when the second round of presidential elections in France.
The final push was India's decision to buy 126 Rafale, Dassault taking the choke. It is the first international order your jet, so far restricted itself to the French Air Force (sic). With production scale, the price of the planes also tends to fall in business with Brazil, emptying one of the major constraints to them: the cost of the product and especially maintenance.
Following the announcement of the deal with the French Indians, Celso Amorim (Defense) was coincidentally in India, in a statement citing the victory of Dassault and noting that 108 of 126 fighters "will be built in the country [India], with technology transfer ". The term "technology transfer" is a mantra dragged FX-2 program, the purchase of aircraft.
Lula was with pen in hand twice to sign the contract with the French. At first, fell after the embarrassment of announcing the option before the completion of the technical report of the FAB.
At second, when the sheet of report published the result with the Swedish Gripen first, the F-18 in U.S. Rafale second and third and last.
By assuming, Dilma used good argument for cutting the budget study business. The victory of the Gripen in FAB has been considered and the F-18 returned to the wheel. But during one year, crystallized two certainties in government: 1) the Gripen is just a project and Sweden has zero political weight, 2) it is impossible to trust the promise of technology transfer from the U.S., subject to the mood of Congress and alternation
of power.
Everything indicates that the Rafale coming.

 

[praveen007]

here is one more artical that proves EFT is more costly.
Even costler then F-35.
.
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Italy buys its first three F-35s. With a shocking announcement: “a JSF will cost less than a Eurofighter Typhoon” « The Aviationist
++
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Italy buys its first three F-35s.
With a shocking announcement: “a JSF will cost less than a Eurofighter Typhoon”
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On Feb. 7, 2012, Gen. Claudio Debertolis, head of the agency that Is responsible for the procurement of new armaments, has announced that Italy has already ordered the first three Lockheed Martin F-35s.
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Unit price: 80 million USD.
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Talking to the lower house’s defense commitee, Debertolis explained that these first planes will cost more than the rest of the fleet since costs are going to decrease as the program, currently in Low Rate Initial Production, continues. The Italian high rank officer is particularly optimistic, as he believes that the unit price will be around 70 million each (Lockheed Martin estimates 65M USD for the F-35A and about 73M USD for the F-35B), less than the 79 million USD currently paid for the Eurofighter Typhoon and much less of the 121 million USD per aircraft anticipated in 2011.
Quite surprising, since unit price is one of the JSF partner’s main concern, but possible, considering also that the Typhoon has just lost India’s mother of all tenders based on price.
Although there’s no official commitment yet, the initial requirement for Italy foresaw 131 examples (69 conventional take-off and landing F-35As and 62 of the short take-off and vertical landing variant F-35Bs). Debertolis confirmed that determining how many aircraft Italy will purchase is not a current task, since it will depend on the Defense Budget Review. Nevertheless, even if the number of aircraft will be much lower than the initial 131, the MoD will work to make sure that the industry will get the expected compensation.
Italy is working on stretching deliveries and slowing purchase “a much easier task than that with the Eurofighter program, since the F-35 procurement is modular therefore delays don’t imply increasing costs” Debertolis said.
Furthermore with the recent Eurofighter defeat in India, Italy is going to stop working on the
Typhoon and “divert” part (if not all) of its workforce towards the F-35, being assembled at the Cameri FACO (Final Assembly and Check Out) facility.
Finally, Debertolis has confirmed that Italy will have both A and B variants, with the STOVL (Short Take Off Vertical Landing) ones serving both the Air Force and the Navy, that will use them on the Cavour aircraft carrier.
In spite of the widespread criticism surrounding the program and the global financial crisis it looks like the F-35 has, if not a bright future ahead, at least good chances to survive the austerity measures of the new Monti’s technocratic cabinet.

 

[sancho]

On which ground you say Rafale can trump j10b any time? Claim or shut up.

I guess the same does apply to your claims about J10B as well isn't it? There are still confusions if it gets PESA or AESA radar and you claim it will be better?
I think J10B can be a very good fighter and possibly even the biggest threat of IAF in this decade, but so far waaaay to less is known about it to compare it to Rafale F3+ or EF T3B. Rafale so far has the clear advantage on AESA ready developed, SC capable, advanced passive features already operational and beeing upgraded in the new version, most likely the higher TWR and the lower wingloading + the MICA IR / METEOR combo in BVR. And these are things that we know till now, so unless you can provide credible sources for specs of J10B that shows better capabilities like these, it's hard to prove any superioirity of J10B, except of cost maybe, but even that is just speculated so far.

 

[sudhir007]

The Rafale's long flight to India
The selection of Dassault?s Rafale as India?s new MMRCA fighter was only the latest step in the Air Force?s long and painstaking process to pick itself a winner

Long after the streets emptied that chilly winter evening in December 1981, lights were burning on the fifth floor of Vayu Bhavan in the elite Operations Branch of the Indian Air Force. Worrying the brightest thinkers of IAF was a brash new arrival in the subcontinental skies. The US had just announced the sale of 40 F-16 fighters to Pakistan, giving the Pakistan Fiza’ya (as the Pakistan Air Force styles itself) a fighter potent, fast and agile enough to upset the air power balance in the subcontinent. That F-16 purchase unleashed a set of Indian reactions that culminated in last week’s decision to negotiate with French Dassault Aviation for 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft, MMRCA for short.

India moved quickly to counter the F-16 with the Mirage 2000 and MiG-29 fighters. Soon after Squadron Leader Shahid Javed landed Pakistan’s first F-16 at Sargodha Air Base on January 15, 1983, New Delhi signed a contract with Dassault for 49 Mirage 2000s. IAF pilots began training in France, and in 1985 the first Mirage 2000s joined the IAF fleet. This was South Asia’s first true “multi-role” fighter, good for strike missions, electronic warfare support, and also fast and manoeuvrable enough for air-to-air combat. From the outset, IAF pilots relished the Mirage 2000 as well as the relationship with Dassault.

Rajan Bhasin, then a young flight lieutenant and later one of IAF’s top guns, was in the first batch of eight pilots who went to France in 1984 to learn how to fly the Mirage 2000. He recalls, “The Mirage 2000 was a superb fighter. And the relationship with Dassault was always completely professional. We got the fighter we paid for; and we got the training we paid for. Whatever we wanted extra, we had to pay for it. But Dassault did not cheat.”

By 1987 PAF had inducted all 40 F-16s that it had contracted for and, in 1988, Pakistan ordered and paid for another 11 F-16 fighters. But though alarm bells were ringing in New Delhi and IAF was keen to order more Mirage 2000s under an options clause in the contract, it did not do so. The purchase of the Russian MiG-29, reputedly an “F-16 buster” due to its prowess in air-to-air combat, had left no space for more Mirage 2000s.

But IAF’s enthusiasm for Dassault fighters still burned bright, especially after the Mirage 2000 demonstrated its ability to strike almost invisible Pakistani positions on the knife-edged ridges above Kargil in 1999. At the turn of the century — with the early-model MiG-21s rapidly becoming obsolete, and with their replacement, the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft still to take to the air (it first flew only in 2001) — IAF formally asked the defence ministry to buy and shift to India the entire Mirage 2000 production line that Dassault was closing down. This would allow Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to build the improved Mirage 2000-5 to replace the vintage MiG-21s. With Dassault shifting production to the new-generation Rafale fighter, France was willing to sell India the Mirage 2000 line.

“IAF told the ministry that we wanted aircraft with which we were familiar. That was the Mirage 2000, and we wanted the latest version: the Mirage 2000-5. As an air force we were very familiar and comfortable with the operational and tactical handling of the Mirage 2000,” says Air Marshal (retired) Pranab Kumar Barbora who was Vice-chief of Air Staff till 2010.

But the ministry, stung by the Tehelka expose on corruption in defence procurement, feared that a single-vendor buy from Dassault might be criticised as arbitrary. Pointing out that IAF had not availed of an “options clause” in the 1983 contract for Mirage 2000 fighters, George Fernandes’s defence ministry asked IAF to float a global tender for the very best fighter that could be bought from the international market.

Another reason for a new global tender was the fear that the Mirage 2000-5 might no longer be good enough. With the American dependence on Pakistan growing due to the war in Afghanistan, it seemed likely that at least two more squadrons of F-16s would soon join PAF. These would be the formidable Block 50/52 fighters with greatly improved radars and weaponry. And PAF was also slated to get a brand new fleet of over 200 Chinese JF 17 Thunder light fighters.

Maker Fighter Good and bad
Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper Better avionics and weaponry than any other F-16 sold before

Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet A customised variant with high-level aircrew situational awareness rejected in favour of the Typhoon and Rafale

Eurofighter GmbH Typhoon Its production was expected to create thousands of jobs in India and Europe

Dassault Rafale Dassault's old Mirage 2000 is a favourite of IAF pilots

Saab Gripen NG Still in the future

Russia MiG-35 Left the race in April 2011

Even more alarming was China’s weapons and infrastructure buildup in Tibet. The old J-7 and J-8 fighters, which IAF could comfortably handle, were now being replaced by a fleet of Russian Sukhoi-27/30 fighters, and the Chinese j-10, which reportedly fields advanced avionics bought from Israel. Suddenly the dragon had an improved military airfield network in Tibet with extended runways and modernised facilities.

“We needed to boost our fighter fleet really, really, urgently,” says a serving Air Marshal who prefers to remain anonymous. “And we were determined to implement an acquisition process which nobody in the ministry could fault or delay. Today, the IAF process has become the gold standard for fighter aircraft acquisitions worldwide. The Brazilian defence minister, who visited Delhi this week, has asked us to share details with his ministry on just how we did it.”

* * * * *

It began with the drawing up of specifications in Vayu Bhavan that demanded not the best available fighter in the world, but a fighter so good that it didn’t yet exist. The IAF specifications included: superb aerodynamic performance; the most advanced AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar that would allow the aircraft to detect and fire missiles before an enemy fighter realised that he was in the crosshairs; advanced electronic warfare capabilities to blind the opposition; and weaponry integrated seamlessly with the fighter’s avionics. Everything was put down in writing before a Request for Proposal (RfP) was sent out to six global aerospace companies in August 2007.

For these companies, the big question was: which fighter to offer? Lockheed Martin had the F-22 Raptor, the world’s only fifth-generation fighter, which would win any competition hands-down but would never be cleared for export. The company was also building the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, but that was years away from completion and could not participate in IAF’s impending flight trials. Lockheed Martin eventually fielded its most advanced Block 60 F-16 fighter, dubbed the F-16IN Super Viper, with better avionics and weaponry than any F-16 sold before. Other companies had fewer choices: Boeing fielded its F/A-18 Super Hornet, Dassault offered the Rafale, Saab the Gripen NG which is still in the future, Eurofighter GmbH offered the Typhoon, and Russia fielded the MiG-35.

In the second half of 2008, IAF conducted a technical evaluation to see whether the bids conformed to the RfP. What should have been an innocuous process turned dramatic when Dassault’s bid was reportedly rejected as incomplete. While this was quickly resolved by diplomatic intervention, reportedly by President Sarkozy himself, other companies now say the Rafale was done a favour by being allowed back into the contest.

It was the next stage of evaluation — flight trials — that has put IAF’s testing process in a league of its own. Conducted by the Directorate of Air Staff Requirements, and overseen by the quiet and unflappable Air Commodore (now Air Vice-Marshal) R K Dhir, each of the six contenders was flight-tested by IAF pilots on 660 separate performance aspects. For example, the RfP demanded that the fighter’s engine should be replaced within one hour. The maintenance teams actually made each contender do that. If IAF demanded a “sustained turn rate” (the quickness with which a fighter can turn around in the air) of 24 degrees per second, each fighter was physically put through this manoeuvre to establish that it met this requirement. (Incidentally, both the US fighters failed to meet IAF’s “sustained turn rate” requirements)

Air Marshal Barbora, who oversaw the flight evaluation process as IAF’s vice-chief, says that six teams of pilots, flight engineers and maintenance staff were mustered — one for each aircraft. Each pilot began by learning to fly the fighter he would evaluate, while the flight engineers and maintenance staff learned the technical ropes. The IAF pilots physically flew each of the contending fighters, albeit with a “home” pilot in the second seat. This was the first time that any air force has been allowed to conduct such a fly-off.

Last April, the ministry “down-selected” the Rafale and Typhoon, which meant that only these two aircraft had passed the flight trial evaluation. Now the game had changed; with performance established, the cheaper of the two was going to be adjudged the winner. For the first time in India, costs were not compared on the ticket price alone, but on how much the fighter would cost to buy, build, upgrade and operate over a service life of three to four decades. IAF had clearly learned a lesson from the Russian MiG experience, where a cheap upfront price that seemed initially attractive led to enormous operating costs and a lower aircraft availability that meant that when IAF paid for six squadrons, it actually had just three squadrons to fly.

Air Marshal (retired) Padamjit Singh Ahluwalia, who brought the first Mirage 2000s to India, says, “Russian fighters like the MiG-29 are great for air shows but serviceability is often a problem. When you get airborne, the radar often becomes unserviceable… sometimes this happens between two sorties.”

* * * * *

The final countdown has begun, towards signing a contract with Dassault. A defence ministry body called the Contract Negotiating Committee will now engage Dassault in beating down its price, grilling Dassault’s negotiators on the calculations that determined the final price of the Rafale, and scanning the costs of labour and materials that go into the fighter. For example, CNC will find out how much titanium goes into each aircraft and then check titanium prices on the London Metal Exchange. CNC will also vet labour costs, determining the number of skilled workmen and engineers needed to build the Rafale and multiplying that by the wages (which are notoriously high in France). The aim will be to demonstrate to the Dassault negotiators that the Rafale can be built cheaper than the price they have quoted.

CNC negotiations will also centre on the technologies that Dassault (and its sub-vendors, like Thales) will transfer to India, and the modalities for doing so. The RfP mandates that the technology for the AESA radar (which Thales builds) is to be transferred to India. CNC will verify how that technology, and others, would actually be transferred. Offsets are another minefield that Dassault must cross, ploughing back into Indian industry at least 50 per cent of the estimated $15-17 billion contract value of this deal. Only after these issues are resolved will a contract be actually signed. Senior IAF officers believe this could take till late-2012.

If the Rafale purchase goes through, the French seem here to stay.

 

[sudhir007]

Rafale News: MMRCA, Rafale better than Eurofighter.

After the elimination of the Eurofighter from the MMRCA contest (leaving the Rafale as the only contender for the mega deal) UK has sent a delegation to India in a last and desperate attempt to force India to buy the Eurofighter instead of the Rafale based on the most naive argument of them all: The Eurofighter is a better plane than the Rafale as stated by British Prime Minister David Cameron.

Well, is it ?

Aquisition price and maintenance costs : Apparently the Rafale is better as the Indian Ministry of defence has just concluded that the French jet is 15% less expensive to buy and operate than the Typhoon.

Air to Air efficiency : Despite all the urban legends spread by the British lobbies, the Rafale does prevail in the Air to air role. Notably, the Rafale was rated clearly higher (in both defensive and offensive A2A missions) than the Eurofighter by Switzerland after 2 very serious evaluations by the Swiss Air Force whose primary requirerment was for an Air Defense fighter.

Air to Ground efficiency : No contest here, the Rafale's statistics in Libya speaks for themselves. The British Eurofighter, with their limited Air to ground capabilities, barely did half of the sorties and 1/5 of the tasks accomplished by the Rafale during the conflict (see below).

Compliance with Indian long term strategic framework: Again the Typhoon is lagging severely in this area.

The Rafale is carrier capable, the Eurofighter is not
The Rafale platform is optimized for nuclear strikes, not the Eurofighter
The Rafale will share many weapons with the upgraded IAF Mirage 2000, that's not the case of the Eurofighter
The Rafale has no string with US missiles used by Pakistani F-16, the Eurofighter currently uses the same american BVR missile as the PAF...

Conclusion:

Rafale is more effecient
Rafale is more versatile
Rafale is more mature
Rafale is more independant
Rafale is cheaper

So, Mister Cameron, let's be honnest: The Rafale is a better plane than the Eurofighter. And India knows it.

 

[sancho]

Conclusion:

Rafale is more effecient
Rafale is more versatile
Rafale is more mature
Rafale is more independant
Rafale is cheaper

+ Indian specific advantages:

Rafale is easier to induct and operate in IAF, thanks to Mirage 2000 experience
Rafale is fits better to MMRCA requirements and IAF fleet
Rafale is an option for INs carriers => increased commonality, reduced costs
Rafale gives several techs and weapons that could be used for LCA or AMCA developments (AESA, engine, avionics developments)

 

[Bl[i]tZ]

Rafale training center. I love the touch screens.

 

[anathema]

Not sure if you guys have seen this video - A 2 minute gig by French marine pilots. THere is a complete 16 minute video out there somewhere - it was uploaded once on Patricksaviation but was removed later -- anyways enjoy !!

 

[Tshering22]

India has made powerful enemies with the Rafale deal


india is not likely to bow to Anglo-American pressure to revisit the MMRCA decision in favour of Dassault-Rafale. By deciding on the basis of technical parameters alone, india satisfied its own needs, but quite ignored the diplomatic fall out .Price negotiation is what remains of the crucial MMRCA deal. It’s a complicated process. Nevertheless, it appears unlikely that the decision to buy the Rafale itself will be revisited. Given how drawn-out and difficult the choice was, the government is unlikely to add further controversy by admitting it made a mistake, which will be the consequence if the MMRCA competition is reopened. The selection apparently involved testing the platforms on around 600 odd technical parameters. This is the key argument made by proponents of the deal: that the deal was so carefully and technically handled that it should not be questioned.

But the premise that technical factors are all that matters is not defensible especially for such a large and politically important deal. While the technical qualifications are an important set of elements that should go into while making a decision, this has also brought to the fore how strategic factors were underplayed in this critical deal.

A decision made purely on technical parameters seems like the decision makers in India were opting for an easy, risk free option. This is understandable in the domestic political context. The single most important political concern today is about corruption in administrative decisions. Given the importance of this issue in public perception, and particularly given the many corruption scandals that have come out over the last year, it is not surprising that the government wants to play it safe. And the easiest way to play it safe is to leave political discretion out by letting the IAF make a purely technical decision.

Indian military services are known for their thoroughness in assessing weapons systems. Clearly the IAF did a good job of picking what was the best fighter from its perspective. But while the Rafale might have been the best from a

technical standpoint, it is not clear that it was diplomatically and strategically a good choice.

A strategic perspective should have looked at which of the countries fighting for the contract was most useful to India. This is not just about who wants good relations with India or who is a well-wisher because all of the competitors were good friends of India and were India’s well-wishers.

Where they were different was in terms of which could do more for India. This should have been a purely cold, hard assessment. Such an assessment would have put the US and Russia as the top choices. While the European consortium and Sweden would probably have brought up in the back of this list, France would have been somewhere in the middle. It definitely has greater global weight than Sweden and probably a better bet than a consortium of several countries, but it would have been no match for the US or Russia.

Of course, this should not have been the only consideration. Strategic and diplomatic reasons alone should not decide which fighter jet was picked. India’s decision-makers should have also looked at the different technical capabilities of the various competing planes. In fact, the final choice should have been a combination of the technical merits and the political and strategic requirements. And this is the key criticism if the manner in which India has chosen to make the deal — using only technical parameters to make a choice and ignoring diplomatic and strategic factors.

Considering how big this contract was, India could have received significant political benefits, which it stands to lose by making a technical decision. Even France could very well make the argument that there is no political quid pro quo for India choosing the Rafale because India itself claims that this was not a political choice. There is little reason why France has to give any political support for a decision that was purely technical in nature.

This leaves India in the politically the worst position possible — both the US and Russia, politically far more significant than France on global issues, are unhappy with India, but India is unlikely to get much benefit from France despite picking the French plane. And unlike Britain, which is also unhappy about the Indian decision, the US and Russia matter quite a lot in the global arena. So, India has effectively annoyed more important friends for nothing.

There are other factors in addition to the strategic factor that also needs closer examination. The cost factor itself is a serious issue. The unit cost of the plane is only one factor. The cost — acquisition, lifecycle and maintenance cost — should have been an important determinant in this decision. As against hundred odd Rafale, India could have procured many more Russian or US fighter jets for the same value. The Rafale option has cost India dearly both on the acquisition as well as the cost of spare parts.

Thus, though there may have been good reasons for picking the Rafale from a technical point of view, or even from a domestic political perspective, this is not enough. The choice should have at least considered the strategic implications in such a big contract.

That might still have led to the Rafale being picked, but it would have been a more defensible decision.
_____________________________________________________________________

The US seems to be calm because of the other orders that compensate for US jets being ejected; just like Russia who has the $ 30 billion commitment from IAF for PAKFA-- which is almost three times MMRCA money.

Even Germany, Spain, Italy seem to have taken their defeat professionally (Sweden winning the Swiss deal). I don't understand what's wrong with Cameron government.

 

[Tshering22]

Google Translate
++

.
'C'est ça'
.
BRASILIA - After so many comings and goings, the government is finally hitting the hammer in favor of the Rafale, the French Dassault, to renew its fleet of FAB. The notice must be in the first half, but only after May 6, when the second round of presidential elections in France.
The final push was India's decision to buy 126 Rafale, Dassault taking the choke. It is the first international order your jet, so far restricted itself to the French Air Force (sic). With production scale, the price of the planes also tends to fall in business with Brazil, emptying one of the major constraints to them: the cost of the product and especially maintenance.
Following the announcement of the deal with the French Indians, Celso Amorim (Defense) was coincidentally in India, in a statement citing the victory of Dassault and noting that 108 of 126 fighters "will be built in the country [India], with technology transfer ". The term "technology transfer" is a mantra dragged FX-2 program, the purchase of aircraft.
Lula was with pen in hand twice to sign the contract with the French. At first, fell after the embarrassment of announcing the option before the completion of the technical report of the FAB.
At second, when the sheet of report published the result with the Swedish Gripen first, the F-18 in U.S. Rafale second and third and last.
By assuming, Dilma used good argument for cutting the budget study business. The victory of the Gripen in FAB has been considered and the F-18 returned to the wheel. But during one year, crystallized two certainties in government: 1) the Gripen is just a project and Sweden has zero political weight, 2) it is impossible to trust the promise of technology transfer from the U.S., subject to the mood of Congress and alternation
of power.
Everything indicates that the Rafale coming.

I never knew a Brazilian government would ever consider factors independent of US at one stage. Dilma seems to be taking self-reliance to a new level.

 

[sancho]

I don't understand what's wrong with Cameron government.[/B]

Isn't that obvious? British MoD financially in a bad situation, EF partners cutting orders and not having the necessary funds to upgrade the fighter and give it more future potential, BAE forced to close parts of the production line and fire 3000 workes, the switch to F35C gives even less parts of the production to BAE, since that version will be build in the US only.
Getting an Indian order would not only diverted several of UKs EF orders, which means big cost savings for their MoD, but also had reduced the funds UK has to pay to upgrade the fighter. Not to mention that such a big order would have given EF a way higher future potential and that's where British industry had benefited in the long term too.
From a politicians point of view, it couldn't be worse. No money, less economical benefits, more unemployed people in his country, on the other side, President Sarkozy will take this (and the M2K upgrade) deal as points to show, how he improved economical situation and foreign relation of France, especially if UAE and Brazil makes orders soon too. Heck India alone could give him even more PR reasons, if the Eurocopter Fennec wins the LUH deal (nearly 200 helicopters), or if FM clears A330 MRTT deal and lets not forget the nuclear power plant deals.
The Brits have currently simply more to loose and that's why they are more desperate when such a big chance is lost!

 

[sancho]

Interesting new leaks from the Swiss competition!!!


http://files.newsnetz.ch/upload//1/2/12332.pdf

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Interesting new leaks from the Swiss competition!!!


http://files.newsnetz.ch/upload//1/2/12332.pdf

That is some high end leak

 

[rockstarIN]

Interesting new leaks from the Swiss competition!!!


http://files.newsnetz.ch/upload//1/2/12332.pdf

Interesting indeed.