Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions
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Su-30 is more like air to ground superior, We need it in our inventory. J10b is inferior to Rafale on air to ground capacity but better at air combat. J10A is always shooing su-27 flanker down in the PLAAF practice.
kingkobra
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Really rejectedBhai sidhey sidhey bolo na auwkat se baahar hai aur aagar kharid lete to diwala nikal gaya hota aab tak .
you don't need to reply him in his words,unless you are here to get banned too
just report him and lets move on
praveen007
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.kutte was meant for whole India....stop the weapon purchase i warn you
Forget it .
Mods had taken care of this idiot.
drunken-monke
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Please do not reply to azmal... Where are the mods??
drunken-monke
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Can you ask your government to stop purchase of Jf 17 or J10B? When you have the answer please then ask us not to purchase weapons...
Tshering22
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kutte was meant for whole India....stop the weapon purchase i warn you
What a shame, you are disrespecting the rules of your own country's prestigious forum...
Skull and Bones
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Ye kisne aapna baccha yaha chorke gaya, le ke jao.
Ja bacche, side me jakar khel. Mummy ne nahi bataya ke anjaan uncles and aunties se baat nahi karte?
Ja bacche, side me jakar khel. Mummy ne nahi bataya ke anjaan uncles and aunties se baat nahi karte?
Tshering22
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We shall see that..
---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 PM ----------
Advantage Rafale in Brazil and UAE after India's selection
Brazil almost declared Rafale as the winner and UAE almost signed the contract for the Rafale , but for some strange reasons both talks and negotiations fell flat on ground , experts believe that both UAE and Brazil were waiting for Indian result , to ride on the huge order which India will place .
Brazil has requirement of 36 aircrafts but follow up orders may go up to 80 aircrafts and UAE has requirements of 60 aircrafts and Indian contract almost on verge of been sealed 126 aircrafts which India may order and later follow up orders of more 80 aircrafts may take place end of this decade ,will make the Rafale export success too .
Brazil was in touch with Indian air force and Ministry of defense of India through out the selection process of MMRCA and have asked India to provide documents related to Rafale bids to Brazil , after India selected them , UAE is also considering sending a team of defense personnel to study the Indian deal and have already restarted negotiations with the french firm .
With Indian order in the bag almost and if French can pull Brazilian and UAE order too then Rafale not only be a success story but also out sale Eurofigther, since both Indian (up to 200), Brazilian (up to 80) and UAE (60) along with 200 ordered by French military will make it a export success too .
The Rafales selection by India, which came at the end of a vigorous and transparent selection process has boosted the French Jets prospects in Brazil. In 2009, Brazilian President Luis Inacio Lula da Silva had expressed his interest in the French Rafale and was quoted as saying he wanted to award the multi-billion dollar contract to France. However, subsequent political pressures by lobbies close rival aircraft manufacturers in the U.S. and Europe led the deal to be put on hold.
praveen007
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ok friends back to topic.
.
The $20 Billion Dogfight for an Indian Air Force Contract | idrw.org
++
.
The $20 Billion Dogfight for an Indian Air Force Contract
.
SOURCE : WALL STREET DAILY
It flies at over 1,500 miles per hour and has been called the complete combat aircraft. But India doesn’t want it.
The consortium behind the Eurofighter, Typhoon, was ready for take off last month on an air defense contract worth $20 billion.
That was until French company, Dassault, swooped in and beat them to it, winning the chance to sell 126 of their Rafale aircrafts.
But the consortium – made up of the German and Spanish branches of EADS, Britain’s BAE Systems, and Italy’s Finmeccanica – haven’t yet had their hopes grounded.
This week, BAE’s CEO, Ian King, said “all options are still on the table,” suggesting the price for the Eurofighter contract may come down.
IHS Jane’s consultant, Endre Lunde, says France may still have the edge, with the transfer of nuclear technology between them and India perhaps the most crucial part of the deal: “France, with its experience in this field, could be very important to them in terms of helping to develop that technology, developing that capability and not least building this in India. So both on a civilian side and a defense side, I think there’s significant potential to develop the relationship between India and France further.”
Precedent is not on the French side however.
The Rafale has lost a series of contests to U.S. competition, while in 2009 French President
Nicolas Sarkozy prematurely announced that a sale of Rafales to Brazil was imminent, only to see talks drag on for another two years. Lunde says: France has been close before and it hasn’t turned out in the end, one example being the UAE, which was predicted to be a customer of the Rafale. That fell through and it’s now in negotiations with the Eurofighter.”
So although the French may have India’s fighter
contract in its sights, the dogfight over who will
ultimately prevail could produce more twists.
.
The $20 Billion Dogfight for an Indian Air Force Contract | idrw.org
++
.
The $20 Billion Dogfight for an Indian Air Force Contract
.
SOURCE : WALL STREET DAILY
It flies at over 1,500 miles per hour and has been called the complete combat aircraft. But India doesn’t want it.
The consortium behind the Eurofighter, Typhoon, was ready for take off last month on an air defense contract worth $20 billion.
That was until French company, Dassault, swooped in and beat them to it, winning the chance to sell 126 of their Rafale aircrafts.
But the consortium – made up of the German and Spanish branches of EADS, Britain’s BAE Systems, and Italy’s Finmeccanica – haven’t yet had their hopes grounded.
This week, BAE’s CEO, Ian King, said “all options are still on the table,” suggesting the price for the Eurofighter contract may come down.
IHS Jane’s consultant, Endre Lunde, says France may still have the edge, with the transfer of nuclear technology between them and India perhaps the most crucial part of the deal: “France, with its experience in this field, could be very important to them in terms of helping to develop that technology, developing that capability and not least building this in India. So both on a civilian side and a defense side, I think there’s significant potential to develop the relationship between India and France further.”
Precedent is not on the French side however.
The Rafale has lost a series of contests to U.S. competition, while in 2009 French President
Nicolas Sarkozy prematurely announced that a sale of Rafales to Brazil was imminent, only to see talks drag on for another two years. Lunde says: France has been close before and it hasn’t turned out in the end, one example being the UAE, which was predicted to be a customer of the Rafale. That fell through and it’s now in negotiations with the Eurofighter.”
So although the French may have India’s fighter
contract in its sights, the dogfight over who will
ultimately prevail could produce more twists.
drunken-monke
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Don't worry guyz.. Our mods have turned the colour of Azmal's name pink.. thanks to them..
kaykay
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44 facts about the MMRCA
1. French naval Rafales were once ‘nailed to the ground’ after a virus infection.
2. Eurofighter came across as cheaper than Gripen In Austria on the basis of its payment plan.
3. Some believed that the selection of the GE414 engine for LCA over Eurojet meant Gripen, F/A-18 had an edge in the MMRCA.
4. Contrary to popular belief, the MMRCA tender process was not completely spotless.
5. Boeing offered more power for the F/A-18 SuperHornet it offered for the contest.
6. The previous IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik, apprehended graft complaints by the losers to the Chief Vigilance Commissioner.
7. The Eurofighter is the only aircraft of the MMRCA-6 that has never given a back-seat ride to any Indian.
8. Only the MiG-35 has never been in a combat operation, after Libya 2011.
9. How long to sign on the Rafale? IAF Mirage-2000 upgrade took 5 years to bargain to USD 2.4 B & USD 1.23 B for MICA missiles.
10. Normally, the Ministry of Defense sends loser the letter and calls winner in for a chat. In the case of the MMRCA, it was the reverse.
11. The F-16 aircraft has a really stiff joystick on the left side of the seat.
12. All you TopGun fans, that fighter was the F-14. Tomcat pilots initially hated the idea of converting to Hornets.
13. The F-16 is flown by 24 other countries. 25, now, with the Iraqi order.
14. Even after selection of Rafale, all 5 other aircraft cos wait with curiosity. Yes they do. Context.
15. The math for comparing the bids of Rafale & Eurofighter was completed by the 1st week of Dec 2011.
16. The contest is governed by 2006 rules, though rules were last updated in Jan 2011 | StratPost
17. Indian security minsters group can disregard the lowest bid and award the contract for strategic reasons.
18. Rafale won only because Eurofighter was the only other aircraft shortlisted.
19. Gripen replaced MiG-21 in the Czech Republic and Eurofighter replaced MiG-29 in Germany (brought about to replace the F-4).
20. In theory, this is how Gripen would operate off public roads.
21. Gripen only aircraft built by UN Security Council non-member, hence claimed to be free of political considerations.
22. Proof of concept: F/A-18 can operate off public roads too.
23. Only F/A-18 SuperHornet & F-16IN of the six aircraft satisfy the key IAF requirement of an operational AESA radar.
24. The F-16IN had the single most powerful engine of all 6 aircraft in the competition.
25. F/A-18 Super Hornet was accused of being underpowered, inspite of having offered a more powerful engine.
26. Rafale pissed off the UAE last year when a newspaper owned by Dassault said Israel provided it security assistance.
27. Rafale lost to F-16 in Morocco and Sarkozy said ‘the better aircraft won’ (see Wikileaks).
28. India will be the first and largest export customer for the Rafale if the contract is signed.
29. Rafale was once thrown out of the contest.
30. At the time of being kicked out, the excuse given was Rafale had low thrust to weight ratio .
31. Eurofighter’s left wing built in Italy, right in Spain & fuselage divided between UK & Germany.
32. Four of the six aircraft also made offers to Indian Navy, even though only 2 of them were carrier capable. F-35 JSF also pitched.
33. Eurofighter and Gripen offered Indian Navy a carrier-borne naval concept. F/A-18 SuperHornet & Rafale were other two.
34. The 4 aircraft ejected from the contest have only recently begun having their bid documentation returned to them.
35. IAF considered a total of 643 parameters to test the six aircraft in field evaluation trials.
36. Four of the six aircraft were ejected from the contest exactly the day before their commercial bids were to expire.
37. The contest saw lost files & attempted bribery at the Bangalore Air Show, AeroIndia.
38. The last US ambassador to India resigned the day after both the two US aircraft were ejected.
39. The F-35 JSF is waiting in the wings it it doesn’t work out. Kinda: US offers India the JSF.
40. Rules require MMRCA winner to plow back 50% of the order value into Indian industry.
41. The cost of the Rafale and Eurofighter was evaluated from the exchange rate at the Parliament Street branch of the State Bank of India in New Delhi.
42. Dassault stock rose 22% when the Rafale was announced L1, but could practically benefit only stockholders with 3.13% share.
43. EADS, one of the parent companies of the Eurofighter, owns 46% of Dassault, the manufacturer of the Rafale.
44. This contest tested all six aircraft by requiring them to land and take off from the highest altitude, ever.
1. French naval Rafales were once ‘nailed to the ground’ after a virus infection.
2. Eurofighter came across as cheaper than Gripen In Austria on the basis of its payment plan.
3. Some believed that the selection of the GE414 engine for LCA over Eurojet meant Gripen, F/A-18 had an edge in the MMRCA.
4. Contrary to popular belief, the MMRCA tender process was not completely spotless.
5. Boeing offered more power for the F/A-18 SuperHornet it offered for the contest.
6. The previous IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik, apprehended graft complaints by the losers to the Chief Vigilance Commissioner.
7. The Eurofighter is the only aircraft of the MMRCA-6 that has never given a back-seat ride to any Indian.
8. Only the MiG-35 has never been in a combat operation, after Libya 2011.
9. How long to sign on the Rafale? IAF Mirage-2000 upgrade took 5 years to bargain to USD 2.4 B & USD 1.23 B for MICA missiles.
10. Normally, the Ministry of Defense sends loser the letter and calls winner in for a chat. In the case of the MMRCA, it was the reverse.
11. The F-16 aircraft has a really stiff joystick on the left side of the seat.
12. All you TopGun fans, that fighter was the F-14. Tomcat pilots initially hated the idea of converting to Hornets.
13. The F-16 is flown by 24 other countries. 25, now, with the Iraqi order.
14. Even after selection of Rafale, all 5 other aircraft cos wait with curiosity. Yes they do. Context.
15. The math for comparing the bids of Rafale & Eurofighter was completed by the 1st week of Dec 2011.
16. The contest is governed by 2006 rules, though rules were last updated in Jan 2011 | StratPost
17. Indian security minsters group can disregard the lowest bid and award the contract for strategic reasons.
18. Rafale won only because Eurofighter was the only other aircraft shortlisted.
19. Gripen replaced MiG-21 in the Czech Republic and Eurofighter replaced MiG-29 in Germany (brought about to replace the F-4).
20. In theory, this is how Gripen would operate off public roads.
21. Gripen only aircraft built by UN Security Council non-member, hence claimed to be free of political considerations.
22. Proof of concept: F/A-18 can operate off public roads too.
23. Only F/A-18 SuperHornet & F-16IN of the six aircraft satisfy the key IAF requirement of an operational AESA radar.
24. The F-16IN had the single most powerful engine of all 6 aircraft in the competition.
25. F/A-18 Super Hornet was accused of being underpowered, inspite of having offered a more powerful engine.
26. Rafale pissed off the UAE last year when a newspaper owned by Dassault said Israel provided it security assistance.
27. Rafale lost to F-16 in Morocco and Sarkozy said ‘the better aircraft won’ (see Wikileaks).
28. India will be the first and largest export customer for the Rafale if the contract is signed.
29. Rafale was once thrown out of the contest.
30. At the time of being kicked out, the excuse given was Rafale had low thrust to weight ratio .
31. Eurofighter’s left wing built in Italy, right in Spain & fuselage divided between UK & Germany.
32. Four of the six aircraft also made offers to Indian Navy, even though only 2 of them were carrier capable. F-35 JSF also pitched.
33. Eurofighter and Gripen offered Indian Navy a carrier-borne naval concept. F/A-18 SuperHornet & Rafale were other two.
34. The 4 aircraft ejected from the contest have only recently begun having their bid documentation returned to them.
35. IAF considered a total of 643 parameters to test the six aircraft in field evaluation trials.
36. Four of the six aircraft were ejected from the contest exactly the day before their commercial bids were to expire.
37. The contest saw lost files & attempted bribery at the Bangalore Air Show, AeroIndia.
38. The last US ambassador to India resigned the day after both the two US aircraft were ejected.
39. The F-35 JSF is waiting in the wings it it doesn’t work out. Kinda: US offers India the JSF.
40. Rules require MMRCA winner to plow back 50% of the order value into Indian industry.
41. The cost of the Rafale and Eurofighter was evaluated from the exchange rate at the Parliament Street branch of the State Bank of India in New Delhi.
42. Dassault stock rose 22% when the Rafale was announced L1, but could practically benefit only stockholders with 3.13% share.
43. EADS, one of the parent companies of the Eurofighter, owns 46% of Dassault, the manufacturer of the Rafale.
44. This contest tested all six aircraft by requiring them to land and take off from the highest altitude, ever.
If France and Israel materials tech used for AMCA that could be better tech for AMCA. However if this plane shall going to test in 2016-17 Better to have Graphene use for allElectronics andAvionics RadarsAnd airframes.
Abingdonboy
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Interesting points, just a few things:
The EFT also came out cheaper in that particular contest because the demands of the a/c by Austria were significantly less- AESA, supercruise, weapons suite and many other things were not key requirments in Austrian competition. Hence EADS offered a cheaper bid with less tech on offer.
irrelevant, the IAF constantly stated they would only ***** the a/c they were presented with and and allowed to test not any bids after, otherwise the process would never end! Another disadvantage for the Gripen- they brought older Gripen-D versions to India and some, limited, testing of NG was done by IAF in Sweden.
This is not the fault of the French, typical MoD/GoI bureaucratic nonsense. Similarly BAE (major partner in EFT) Hawk deal took almost 2 decades to come to fruition.
Not true, the EFT and Rafale already won, to some extent, in Aprill 2011 during down-select as this decision was taken on purely TECHNICAL grounds so the Rafale in turn had already beaten those 4 candidates and then finally beat EFT on price and "sweeteners" Dassualt offered, not to mention IAF's inherent bias towards it.
Engine and most of the avionics are made in US (a member of UNSC!) not to mention many subsystems. So point is utterly irrelevant. Additionally it is said the joint Israeli-AESA offer was halted due to US pressure. Free from political consideration my arse.
The eventual Rafale IAF will get will have SNEMCA's latest engine- M88-3 which produces 90KN of thrust.
These are MoD rules that state this can only happen when L1 competitor has been established. Otherwise returning the bids to the companies could affect the program.
Good read all the same!
The EFT also came out cheaper in that particular contest because the demands of the a/c by Austria were significantly less- AESA, supercruise, weapons suite and many other things were not key requirments in Austrian competition. Hence EADS offered a cheaper bid with less tech on offer.
irrelevant, the IAF constantly stated they would only ***** the a/c they were presented with and and allowed to test not any bids after, otherwise the process would never end! Another disadvantage for the Gripen- they brought older Gripen-D versions to India and some, limited, testing of NG was done by IAF in Sweden.
This is not the fault of the French, typical MoD/GoI bureaucratic nonsense. Similarly BAE (major partner in EFT) Hawk deal took almost 2 decades to come to fruition.
Not true, the EFT and Rafale already won, to some extent, in Aprill 2011 during down-select as this decision was taken on purely TECHNICAL grounds so the Rafale in turn had already beaten those 4 candidates and then finally beat EFT on price and "sweeteners" Dassualt offered, not to mention IAF's inherent bias towards it.
Engine and most of the avionics are made in US (a member of UNSC!) not to mention many subsystems. So point is utterly irrelevant. Additionally it is said the joint Israeli-AESA offer was halted due to US pressure. Free from political consideration my arse.
The eventual Rafale IAF will get will have SNEMCA's latest engine- M88-3 which produces 90KN of thrust.
Irrelevant as US was offering VERY little TOT on AESA radars (key requirement) and by the time Rafale will enter service in 2014015 with IAF it will have an AESA radar. The requirement was to have an operational AESA radar by the time the platform entered service which I'm sure all 6 would have been able to do.
These are MoD rules that state this can only happen when L1 competitor has been established. Otherwise returning the bids to the companies could affect the program.
Good read all the same!
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