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MMRCA: Counter Point | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses
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IDSA COMMENT MMRCA:- Counter Point
by- Ramesh Phadke
February 13, 2012

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Since the announcement of the French Rafale as a
possible winner (possible because serious
negotiations on the final price based on life cycle
costs and Transfer of Technology (ToT) are yet to
be concluded) on January 31, 2012, a number of
very strong views against the decision have been
published. Academics, strategic affairs analysts
and journalists have generally highlighted two
major points. Firstly, that the Rafale is too
expensive; India could have purchased a larger
number of less expensive fighters because, with
the threat of a ‘two front war’, India needs
numbers rather than technology. Secondly, that
the choice of the USD 10 to 20 billion worth
contract should have been based more on
consideration of strategic gains instead of
technology alone. While at first glance, there
appears some substance in these arguments, a
deeper analysis of the various associated issues
and the long history of India’s choices in defence
procurement would lead us to different
conclusions.
A brief overview of India’s past decisions would
show that until the current buy, all defence
purchases were made without an ‘open tender’
process. As such, why the IAF chose a particular
piece of equipment or why the then government
gave it the green signal is shrouded in secrecy.
But, it is evident that there were many weighty
security and foreign policy issues behind such
decisions.
In 1948, India decided to buy an unspecified
number of Vampire jet fighters from Britain
because at the time Britain was the only country
that was ready to sell defence equipment to non-
aligned India. India also had a sizeable ‘sterling
balance’ or credit with the UK and did not have to
pay cash. That this sterling balance was very
quickly exhausted is another matter. In 1950-51,
tensions mounted following the issue of refugee
influx from the erstwhile East Pakistan. The then
Prime Minister of Pakistan Liaqat Ali Khan showed
increasing belligerence as time passed. Nehru, as
a precautionary measure, alerted the Indian
armed forces and even moved an armoured
brigade closer to the borders in the Punjab. To its
surprise, the IAF found that while it had plenty of
spares of all types, the vital ‘firing mechanism’ for
the Vampire guns was nowhere to be found.
Whether by design or default, the British
appeared to have placed the IAF in great difficulty.
The senior officers of the IAF then felt that India
needed to diversify her sources of defence supply
in the event one or the other supplier decided to
impose sanctions, as happened later during the
1965 Indo-Pak War. The IAF then chose the
Dassault Ouragon (called Toofani in India) instead
of the British Meteor, even though at that time a
senior British Officer Air Marshal Gibbs was the
Chief of the Air Staff of the IAF.
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......................For full article please visit above link
 
I doubt if this will happen !! French are stubborn - they really wouldnt want to take away any market share from Local arms manufacturers (Damocles) - esp if they are willing to drop the price !! On the other hand - India should just keep up the pressure - Litening is considered to be advanced that Damocles - and also there will be commonality of systems.

I wouldn't call it stubborn, but as you mentioned the have a LDP too and logically wants to sell it in the first place. Litening 3 is considered to be better than Damocles, but Rafale will get the new Damocles XF by the time IAF gets the first squad, so it might depend on how close it is to Litening 4 and if the US might allow the integration, which could be more tricky.
The best hint will be the Mirage 2000 upgrade, because most of the techs and weapons will be chosen with Rafale in mind as well I think.
 
IAF defends Rafale pick

The Indian Air Force, on Monday rubbished reports in the Western media, especially in the UK, criticising India picking Dassault’s Rafale over Eurofighter in the $10.4 billion medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal that will see India procure 126 of the selected aircraft.

Deputy Chief of Air Staff, Air Marshal R K Sharma, defending the decision, said: “All aspects, including the technical and cost aspects, were considered before the decision was made.”

He was answering a specific question after the silver jubilee celebrations of Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE), a DRDO laboratory. He said: “To put it short, not everything being reported is true.”

Earlier, while delivering his speech, Sharma said: A good portion of the Staff Qualitative Requirements (SQRs), which the aircraft had to comply with, were on its potential for upgradation, avionics and radar.” Sharma was part of the selection committee of the aircraft.

In all, Rafale complied with 600-odd parameters laid down in the Air Staff Qualitative Requirements. Sources said that the evaluation was done keeping in mind the life-cycle costs (a time span of 40 years), cost of other aspects like the electronic warfare equipment, avionics etc.

His statements come on the same day as Britain sought to raise the pitch for Eurofighter Typhoon. The Press Trust of India has quoted UK Minister of State for Foreign Affairs Jeremy Browne: “We feel that the Typhoon is the strongest offer...obviously, otherwise we wouldn't be hoping that’s the competitive bid... some considerations still need to be made.”

Further, stating that the new Defence Offset policy will be out soon, Sharma said: “...Even in the MMRCA deal there will be enough for India to benefit, including in some critical technology coming our way.”

Conceding that the Defence Procurement Policy (DPP) and the offset policy do not have the country’s research establishments––including DRDO–– mandate and charter listed clearly, he said: “There is however enough scope for DRDO and the likes to send in their representations to the Centre.”

In the new offset policy, he said, transfer of technology (ToT) will become a more validated option, giving a boost to the research sector in the country.

Reacting to this, V K Saraswat, Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister and Director General (R&D), DRDO said: “Even we (DRDO) should become more proactive. So as we learnt that an aircraft has been chosen by the IAF, we should have began listing what kind of technology we need and so on.”

LCA-Navy, Agni V soon: Saraswat

V K Saraswat, scientific advisor to the Defence Minister, said that the first flight of LCA-Navy will happen in a month while the launch of Agni-V, is scheduled for March-end, reports DHNS.

Taxing trials are already under way for LCA while
Agni-V, he said, is being integrated at Hyderabad and at Wheeler Island. “The launch will happen subject to ships being available for down-range tracking,” he added.

IAF defends Rafale pick
 
Finally found the Rafale video !!

All Rafale fans enjoy - Some excellent quality footage. I had posted shorter version of the video - this is the full one ..


[video]http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/marin.du.ciel/5607/[/video]
 
U.K. Officials Talk to India About Fighter Decision
Feb. 8, 2012 - 12:14PM By ANDREW CHUTER

LONDON — Britain has used a defense trade mission to India, led by a government minister, to hold talks with New Delhi on how it can reverse its decision to buy the French Rafale rather than the Typhoon for an $11 billion fighter requirement.

Defense Minister Gerald Howarth has held discussions with the Indian government to “discuss what can be done,” ministerial colleague David Willetts told industry executives and politicians at a dinner held by the ADS trade lobby group here Feb. 7.

Howarth, the minister for international security strategy at the U.K. Ministry of Defence, has already had talks with Pallam Raju, the Indian minister of state for defense, during the first part of what is a long-planned weeklong trade mission involving business leaders from 20 defense and security companies — including Eurofighter partners BAE Systems and the U.K. arm of EADS.

A spokesman for the British government’s defense exports organization said Howarth was in India to support the opportunities for the defense and security sector rather than to pursue the Typhoon bid.

Earlier this week, the Financial Times in London reported that BAE Chief Executive Ian King said he would consult with partners in Germany, Italy and Spain over how to revive the Typhoon bid. All options were on the table, including a possible reduction in the price, he said.

Last week, Dassault’s Rafale fighter was selected as the preferred option on cost grounds to supply the Indian Air Force with 126 multirole fighters in one of the biggest combat aircraft deals in a decade.

The decision caused a storm in Britain, where it was attacked by British government ministers, including Prime Minister David Cameron, who said the Indians should rethink the decision, claiming Typhoon was a better aircraft with cheaper through-life costs than its French rival.

Even the continuation of Britain’s large aid program to India, which rankles with the public here anyway, was questioned by some British politicians.

In contrast, quiet diplomacy rather than gunboat politics appears to have been the reaction in Germany, where the overall bid is being led through EADS.

U.K. Officials Talk to India About Fighter Decision | Defense News | defensenews.com
 
Sorry.. but yes it is fairly crappy.
You should have watched an episode of sherlock instead.
;)
 
Sorry.. but yes it is fairly crappy.
You should have watched an episode of sherlock instead.
;)


HAHAHA! Watched all of them, many numerous times. But I get the (nost so subtle) hint- I'll take care of it.
 
UK veech kay he chadayga hhahahahhahahhaa :rofl::rofl:
 
HAHAHA! Watched all of them, many numerous times. But I get the (nost so subtle) hint- I'll take care of it.

Waiting anxiosly for the next season then are we?

On the topic..
what is the next step.. ?
who and when will ink the concrete agreement?
 
I would admire if deal with France sealed in presence of UK trade commission in India.
 
India: Rafale Decision Final | Aviation International News

India’s Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne confirmed to AIN here at the Singapore Airshow that the country’s resolve to select the lowest bidder for the contract for 126 medium multirole combat aircraft remains in place. The contract negotiation committee (CNC) opened Dassault Aviation’s bid proposing its Rafale on February 13 and identified the French OEM as the lowest bidder. The decision to involve another manufacturer is “procedurally untenable,” said Browne. “We have a procedure as per the defense procurement policy that stipulates the contract goes to the lowest bidder.”
The CNC, which gets into action once the lowest bidder has been identified, is scheduled to start price negotiations with Dassault from March 5. Discussions will be held on electronics, radar, transfer of technology and offsets.

Asked if he was satisfied with the Rafale selection, Browne said it was, “Brilliant! We got it at the best cost possible. The decision was based on performance and Rafale passed all qualifications.”

However, Browne said the requirement for the fighters was “as of yesterday,” meaning that, in reality, he expects the process to be completed by the end of the year. The air force plans to start pilot training soon, he added.

Browne also said Brazil has asked India to share its acquisition process, including evaluation and lifecycle costs. Coincidentally, India’s state minister, Pallam Raju, is visiting Brazil at the end of March to view the flight of the second, fully modified aircraft for the indigenously developed Indian airborne warning and control system aircraft, the EMB-145, at Embraer’s facilities at São José dos Campos in Brazil.
 
Waiting anxiosly for the next season then are we?

On the topic..
what is the next step.. ?
who and when will ink the concrete agreement?

Well the next step is price negotiations with Dassualt, a specialized negotiation team from MoD will meet with Dassualt representative and try and to get the best price possible. It has been reported this could be finished and a deal signed in March- given how this deal goes April/May might be a more realistic timeline.
 
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