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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

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I don't see it. The case for the Rafale is well understood and the IAF aren't going to let that happen.

IAF is in no position to demand Rafale, they couldn't even get Mirage 2000-5, that they actually wanted, because the government (no mater which one) has to see the bigger picture and not only IAFs sight. The current government put a big focus on inproving of the industrial side, we will have to see where a BJP government might see their forcus. Not to mention that there is still the EF consortium loitering in the background, eager to see a government change, with the hope to provide a new offer.

To be fair none of those noises have been coming out of the BJP, nothing to indicate the Rafale deal is in jeopardy.

True, but there was neither an official statement that they back it, in fact that would be pretty stupid at this point and so close to the elections, since that would signal that the MMRCA / Rafale deal of the current government is right and the BJP would loose a chance to attack them.

Dassualt have already said they are prepared to deal with whomever gets into power so they must have done their research and must have their arguments ready.

Do they have another choice? No! But does a new government have another choice? Yes (EF, LCA)!
That's exactly why I said for month that it's silly of Dassault to delay things from their side, instead of doing anything to fix the deal as fast as possible.[/quote][/quote]
 
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I don't see it. The case for the Rafale is well understood and the IAF aren't going to let that happen. To be fair none of those noises have been coming out of the BJP, nothing to indicate the Rafale deal is in jeopardy. If there was the BJP would've already been up in arms about it but instead they aren't interested. With the industry offsets involved with this deal I think someone as pragmatic as Modi will be able to see the benefits of this deal. Dassualt have already said they are prepared to deal with whomever gets into power so they must have done their research and must have their arguments ready.

I do think there is actually much danger of Modi scrapping the deal to be honest.
its not only the new modi led bjp gov bro but we hav to wt n watch who gonna be the next DM .sancho is quite reasonable by saying it will be a different ball of game both for the Dassualt officials and IAF to force a new gov and a new DM. They have to change some of their strategy.

But here the lacuna lies somewhere else, my fingers are towards our H.A.L. imo HAL is one of the main cause behind the slow negotiation,slow adoption of techs,slow production and fallacious indigenous products in every international strategic deal be it MMRCA or FGFA.or LCA

I wish, the MODI led gov will take some measures to curtail its monopoly in our aero industry and let pvt guys to come in
 
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I do think there is actually much danger of Modi scrapping the deal to be honest.
I think you are correct.. Modi is a hardcore nationalist.. Though he prefers desi made goodies, but case is of national security and choice of IAF.. And as you said taking offset in to consideration and TOT (partial) he would go ahead with the deal.. Remember, BJP govt in 1998 went straight away for nuclear test....
 
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imo HAL is one of the main cause behind the slow negotiation,slow adoption of techs,slow production and fallacious indigenous products in every international strategic deal be it MMRCA or FGFA.or LCA

That's difficult to say, what we know from official statements is, that the MoD and IAF wants HAL to be the lead company for the production of the overall fighter. The crucial systems however, will be provided by others:

Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions | Page 600


Dassault has 2 issues, once that they want to divert workshare from HAL towards their prefered partner Reliance and secondly that the governments wants them to be responsible for possible delays in the licence production too.
The earlier is an issue mainly of Dassault and not negotiable for IAF or the current DM. The second point is more tricky, since they don't to pay penality for HALs mistakes, but at the same time MoD has learned from earlier mistakes in the MKI, or Hawk licence productions, where delayes were caused due to slow transfer of technology by the vendors, after they supplied the kits they produced. So it is important for India to hold Dassault, or any other vendor accountable in legal form, for the whole deal, not just for the first 18 fighters!
 
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Abingdonboy man u r quiet confident about this RAFALE, so i was.

It really a sad day,and a matter of pity, and how the dolt,dork,boor,dumbasshole ANTONY anounced that "we had left with no money" and that to on a occasion like DEFEXXPO ,it will only help to tarnish our industry confidence and image globally ...

India cant never be, even a regional south asian power frgt abt CHINA, with this kind of atrocious and sucking democracy, where there is money for all the populist scheme to get votes but there is nothing for the national security.......
 
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Abingdonboy man u r quiet confident about this RAFALE, so i was.

It really a sad day,and a matter of pity, and how the dolt,dork,boor,dumbasshole ANTONY anounced that "we had left with no money" and that to on a occasion like DEFEXXPO ,it will only help to tarnish our industry confidence and image globally ...

India cant never be, even a regional south asian power frgt abt CHINA, with this kind of atrocious and sucking democracy, where there is money for all the populist scheme to get votes but there is nothing for the national security.......
It's not blind optimism mate, its rooted in logic and what I can see. I don't see any reason to be overly pessimistic on the Rafale deal :).
 
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If Rafale deal really is increased to 30 billion USD, then how can India afford it given its annual budget of 36 billion in 2013? :coffee:
 
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If Rafale deal really is increased to 30 billion USD, then how can India afford it given its annual budget of 36 billion in 2013? :coffee:

Who said it is? Most sources talk about something between $15 -20 billion and you don't really expect to pay us all at once right? :disagree:
 
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India, Dassault Rafale Deal Appears Stalled

NEW DELHI — Negotiations over the multibillion dollar deal to sell 126 Dassault Rafale jets to India have stalled, according to Indian Defence Ministry sources, who say the sticking point involves issues governing license-production of the jets at state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL).

A series of meetings held over the past three months have failed to resolve the stalemate, the sources said, meaning it is unlikely the deal will be finalized during the current New Delhi administration.

At the beginning of the year, Rafale-maker Dassault met with the MoD, Indian Air Force and HAL to break the impasse, sources said. A planned visit by HAL Chairman R.K. Tyagi for Jan. 27-31 has been postponed, putting a question mark over the entire program.

A Dassault executive said the company was informed at the last minute about the postponement of the HAL team visit to Paris and gave no details.

However, a senior HAL executive said the visit was postponed due to a sudden company board meeting at home. He said the visit has just been postponed, not canceled.

At issue is the Indian Air Force’s insistence that HAL provide guarantees on the delivery schedule for the Rafale aircraft. According to the tender, 108 of the 126 jets are to be license-produced at HAL.

HAL in turn has shifted the onus of providing guarantees to Dassault, which initially refused before agreeing to help HAL adhere to the delivery schedule.

However, HAL has failed to take responsibility and guarantee the work of its sub vendors, which includes state-owned companies, including Bharat Electronics Ltd. (BEL), which would supply auxiliary systems, the Air Force sources said.

At the same time, the framework governing work share has not been finalized because the Indian side wants a greater percentage of subsystems and auxiliary work in the license production deal. The French say HAL will need to absorb Western technologies, so the work share can increase only as the license production progresses, MoD sources said.

The Air Force, having suffered delays from HAL, is adamant that the delivery schedule is followed. Air Force sources say the delay in procurement of the fighter will severely affect the fleet strength of the force. The service had to search for a fighter aircraft in the overseas market because the homegrown light combat aircraft, proposed to replace Russian MiG fighters, is more than 15 years behind schedule.

MoD sources say the delay over the Rafale deal has led to a steep rise in the cost of the project — from an estimated $11 billion to more than $14 billion — due to inflation and a more than 20 percent fall in the value of the Indian rupee against the US dollar in the last three years.

The first request for information for the program was floated in December 2005, followed by a request for proposal in August 2007.

As part of the contract negotiations, the Indian MoD set up four subcommittees in the run up to the finalization of the deal with Dassault. These include subcommittees on technology of production, offsets, logistics and cost negotiations.

MoD sources said the Air Force’s tough stance and delivery guarantees have stalled the negotiations.

Rafale was shortlisted alongside the Eurofighter Typhoon after the first round of competition; the US-made F-16 and F/A-18, Sweden’s Gripen and Russia’s MiG-35 were ejected after the technical evaluation.

After the flight trials and life cycle cost phase, Rafale was selected due to its low cost. Contract negotiations began in early 2012, with the goal of signing a contract in the current financial year ending in March.

“The project, regarded as a prestigious project for the MoD, is not getting the right priority by the MoD,” said New Delhi-based defense analyst Nitin Mehta. “The ruling government could be seen as avoiding taking a decision on the big ticket project ahead of the general elections.”

Email: vraghuvanshi@defensenews.com.

India, Dassault Rafale Deal Appears Stalled | Defense News | defensenews.com
 
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NO ONE WANTS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.HOW WILL THIS WORK? :fie::fie: :cray::cray::cray:
 
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If Rafale deal really is increased to 30 billion USD, then how can India afford it given its annual budget of 36 billion in 2013? :coffee:
Its gonna be a max 20 billion USD and no country pay money at once. It would be paid over the period of 6-7 years respective to Rafale induction in batches.
 
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Indian defense budget was 40 billion dollars I think not 36 billion.
 
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MMRCA deal will materialise soon: Antony

Defence Minister A.K. Antony Thursday said negotiations to calculate "life-cycle cost" in the purchase of the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) were not settled yet but he was hopeful that the contract will materialse in the coming fiscal.

Talking to media persons at Defexpo '14 here, Antony denied there was any delay in concluding the MMRCA deal.

Antony said there were some complaints about the procedure to calculate life-cycle cost. "That's still not settled... (But) that is not affecting the process," he said.

The minister said that before taking the matter to the Cabinet Committee on Security, the defence ministry wanted clear cut answers on life-cycle cost of the combat aircraft.

"We do not want to shortcut the procedures," Antony said.

He said the ministry has already spent 92 percent of its capital budget for 2013-14 fiscal and there was no money this year for new projects.

"Major procurements are humanly possible only in next financial year," Antony said.

"(I hope) MMRCA will materialise next year," he said.

French firm Dassault Aviation bagged in 2012 the $10 billion deal for purchase of 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA).

Officials said the MMRCA deal is "complicated" and the contract has "technicalities and legal issues".

MMRCA deal will materialise soon: Antony | Business Standard

Indian defense budget was 40 billion dollars I think not 36 billion.

India's Defence Budget 2013-14

...The net defence outlay of INR 2,03,672.12 crore (USD 37 bn) for 2013-14 represents a growth of 5.31 per cent over the defence outlay of INR 1,93,407.29 crore (USD 35 bn) for 2012-13...

..:: India Strategic ::. MoD Updates: India's Defence Budget 2013-14
 
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