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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

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I think i have posted this link before, but most people won't find it in recent pages, so here is detailed info on Rafale and its omnirole capabilities which i think played major role in its selection.

FLIGHT TEST: Dassault Rafale - Rampant Rafale

IAF went for Rafale because
#1: commanlity with Mirrage

#2: Omnirole...prooved its worth in libiya campain

#3: Spectra prooved its worth in libiya campain

#4: Lower Infrared signature + better stealth

#5: much easy to maintain , as IAF oparates Mirrage 2000

#6: price

#7: french repution of sanction free supply of part's& wepon's

#8: Full TOT withsoucre code's of AESA Radar's

#9: better kick backs
 
Paris to the hilt | idrw.org
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Paris to the hilt[/size]
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SOURCE: TELEGRAPH INDIA
The French kiss is running deep for India’s
defence establishment this season.Tuesday’s
decision to select the Dassault Aviation-made
Rafale fighter jet over the Eurofighter Typhoon as
the aircraft that will power the Indian Air Force for
the next 40 years is easily the biggest prize that
France has won on any military order.
Some 800 French companies operate in India but
only a select few in the defence sector. Areva in
the nuclear power sector and Airbus (European
conglomerate) in civil aviation have expanded
their businesses, too.
But in the lucrative defence business, France is still
behind Russia and Israel as a supplier to India.
The award of the Rafale contract, possibly in
April, will expand its lead hugely over the US, the
UK and Western European countries. The Indian
military has been steadily diversifying its arsenal
this past decade even though nearly 70 per cent
of the hardware is of Russian/Soviet origin.
It would be sweeter still for France because India
has selected the Rafale after it was rejected by a
clutch of countries that were or are looking to
refurbish their air forces. Among them are
Switzerland, the UAE, Brazil and South Korea.
Also, even all of these countries put together
were not looking to buy as many as 126 — and
possibly another 63 more — of the aircraft.
France’s year for India’s defence began with the
announcement in the first week of January that
MBDA was being awarded a contract for 490
Mica infrared and radar-controlled air-to-air
missiles. The package will cost the defence
budget $1.2 billion (about Rs 6,600 crore).
The award of the weapons package follows the
order to upgrade the Indian Air Force’s 51 Mirage
2000H fighter jets. France was given the contract
in July last after years of negotiations that almost
frustrated it. The Mica missiles from MBDA will
equip these refurbished fighter jets.
MBDA is also in the race to sell Asraam missiles to
arm the Indian Air Force’s 100 Jaguar fighter-
bomber aircraft. MBDA heavy-duty weapons
used in Libya and Afghanistan, like bunker
busting and deep penetration ground attack
missiles, will arm the Rafale, too.
The Mirage modernisation order to French
companies Dassault and Thales will cost about
$2.4 billion (about Rs 11,000 crore). The total
upgrade order, with the weapons package, will
top Rs 17,500 crore.
French companies are preparing to race for an
order for a second line of submarines for the
Indian Navy that could be in the region of Rs
62,000 crore. France’s DCNS got the contract in
2005 to build six Scorpene submarines. The
delivery of the submarines, being built in
Cherbourg in France and also at Mazagon Docks
in Mumbai is delayed because work languished
over pricing issues in 2008.
The first of the submarines is now expected only
in 2015. The contract was signed initially for $3
billion after a meeting between Prime Minister
Manmohan Singh and President Jacques Chirac in
September 2005. The price was revised to $4.5
billion after the contract was re-negotiated amid
allegations from German rival HDW of a scandal.
Cutting across the various defence contracts that
France is executing is French company Thales.
Thales is a partner for the Mirage upgrade, the
submarine development and will partner Dassault
for the Rafale. It supplies night-vision devices to
the Indian Army for its tanks.
French engine-maker Snecma powers the Mirage
2000 fighter aircraft and two Snecma M88
engines will go into each Rafale.
French company Safran has won a contract for
an unspecified amount from Hindustan
Aeronautics to supply Turbomeca Ardiden 1H
helicopters for the Dhruv-II advanced light
helicopter. Each helicopter has two engines and
the Dhruv is steadily becoming one of the main
rotorcraft for the army, the air force and the navy
as also for central police organisations. The
Turbomeca engines are made by Safran.
 
IAF went for Rafale because
#1: commanlity with Mirrage

#2: Omnirole...prooved its worth in libiya campain

#3: Spectra prooved its worth in libiya campain

#4: Lower Infrared signature + better stealth

#5: much easy to maintain , as IAF oparates Mirrage 2000

#6: price

#7: french repution of sanction free supply of part's& wepon's

#8: Full TOT withsoucre code's of AESA Radar's

#9: better kick backs
So that's why they went for Rafale, huh?
And I did tell you that I saw all the people involved in the trials of MMRCA right from their pilots of their aircrafts to our pilots of their aircraft, playing Cricket instead of doing the flying and evaluating thingy. But I just feel that 'I told you so' just doesn't cut it here.
 
source:- Livefist: Eurojet's India Hopes Fade
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DSC05029.jpg

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Eurojet's India Hopes Fade.
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India's selection of the Rafale constitutes a major blow to EADS,
but little or nothing has been said about its implications for
Eurojet, the four nation cooperative entity that
builds the EJ200 turbofan that powers the
Typhoon. With the Typhoon losing out in the
MMRCA, it now appears likely that Eurojet Turbo
GmbH will never do business with India.
In September 2010, the Indian government
announced that it had chosen the GE F414 to
power the indigenous Tejas Mk.2, a huge
disappointment for Eurojet, which had been
confident of upstaging its American rival. I visited
Eurojet headquarters in Hallbergmoos, Germany
nine months before that, and the company had
been quite confident that it would beat General
Electric.
While India does a fair bit of business with Rolls-
Royce -- which has a maximum 34 per cent
production share in the Eurojet consortium -- it
has little or nothing to do with Avio, MTU Aero
Engines and ITP, the other three partners. As
things stand, the EJ200 turbofan may now never
power an aircraft for India.
 
IAF went for Rafale because
#1: commanlity with Mirrage

#2: Omnirole...prooved its worth in libiya campain

#3: Spectra prooved its worth in libiya campain

#4: Lower Infrared signature + better stealth

#5: much easy to maintain , as IAF oparates Mirrage 2000

#6: price

#7: french repution of sanction free supply of part's& wepon's

#8: Full TOT withsoucre code's of AESA Radar's

#9: better kick backs:rofl::rofl:

US of A may have provided them much more than expected :devil:
 
1.India got an operational ready platform which has tested & proven capabalities while EF 2000 typhoon was like a post dated cheque for india in which many
capabilties are going to be installed in remote future & also many system is going to be funded by
india if it inducts it like


*Captor E AESA radar in 2015.
*Operational AIr to ground launch capabilty of Air Launched Cruise Misilles around 2016
*Thrust vectoring nozzles



so who knows in future if there is any time warlike situation may erupt due to increasingly volatile & hostile neighbourhood of india unlike that before ,so it always better to have an operational ready platform.



2. India already has/going to have 2 air superiority fighters like Super SU 30mki & FGFA so it's better to have a fighter with good /proven air to ground capabilties & rafale is the best candidate for it.
Also in Air to Air warfare Rafale thanks to it's 5th gen SPECTRA EW suite, has the unique abilty of
Passive detection of aerial targets from greater distance than it's own aesa radar when it's target are in active mode (i.e radar turn on) & also it can cue it's air to air missile towards it's target with
the help of SPECTRA only without turning on it's own AESA radar for stealth reason .





3.India could now get all technological help from french for LCA mark2 / future fighters like AMCA in key departments

* KAVERI engine development with Scenema
* 5th gen Avionics/ EW suite (spectra) codevelopment with THALES
* Meteor missile development with MBDA & it could be used in development of Ramjet powered
ASTRA A-A missile
* AESA Radar development


4.India can now have the ability to arm twist france to veto /stop all
potential arms sales to PAKISTAN
atleast similar platforms which they are selling to
INDIA.



5.EF2000 typhoon is a joint venture between 4 european countries out of which 2 are marred by economic crisis so it could be risky to invest in such joint venture project when u always have a risk of collapsing,
well Rafale is a single country project whom india has good relationship & has already
operated it's mirage fighters & satisfied with it.





6.India now have a much more deeper strategic relationship with france like russians,it can now
utilize it's relationship to get access in french Islands in the gulf region UAE & in african region like Djibouti to patrol the maritime area & protection of it's SHIPS & tankers from
pirates
by basing it's naval ships in those islands .Also india now would have the
support & backing of another imporant powerful ally in future conflicts .
FRENCHNAVALBASES.jpg


7.India could get secretly the technology of ASMP missile for INDIA's own Long
range Cruise missile
programs through french as french cannot sell this weapon.
It could be a effective cruise missile like that of Brahmos but not codeveloped like it .
indiasmissile.jpg


8.Rafale's excellent features which gives clear advantage compare to EF 2000 typhoon
i) Much advanced & sophisticated Avionics likes that RECCO NG reconnaise pod & ECM suites likes that of 5th GEN spectra Sytem
ii) Much better Air to air missile likes that MICA /meteor MISSILE even could be armed with foreign weapons
iii) 14 weapons hard points & more weapons payload carring capacity
iv) Tested & proven multi role fighter
v) More manuverabilty thanks to it's close coupled canards
vi) Operational ready AESA radar


9.India is going to get all F3 standard of RAFALE well india can also develop it further with French to F4 standard
which can have increased stealth features like
* Enclosed weapons pods
* more advanced avionics & EW warfare suite
* Less infra red sinature emitting a nine ton thrust version of the M88 engine.

RAFALESSTEALTHCONCEPT.jpg


10.French are more transparent & friendlier in transfer of all critical
technology & they dont attach any strings of condition while selling weapons & also they wont put sanctions in future
unlike the EF 2000 partners countries which are more pro US .


CONCLUSION
So all in all india really made a wise decision of selecting Rafale as the winner of the 128 MMRCA jet contract & is a truly a complete & tested multirole fighter which fullfills india's all criteria & needs


IAF VISION 2020
iaf2020.jpg



and for EF 2000 typhoon's fanbouy's well it is just this for us now
t2348.gif

02052012155457.jpg
 
thats a great analysis doc.
Now about your 6th point.
I have heard of two-three listing posts jointly held by the French and India in Indian-Ocean region.
I will try to find it and post it.
 
i agree with OP

remember some months ago Germany was thinking not to sell EFT to India.

Except UK we don't have close relations with other 3 nations.

Even UK cant be trusted like France and Russia.
 
thats a great analysis doc.
Now about your 6th point.
I have heard of two-three listing posts jointly held by the French and India in Indian-Ocean region.
I will try to find it and post it.
well talks were happening much before ,and this deal would give us a boost to india's request of using french naval bases in the
region

---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ----------

wow there was a thread of same kind but with 9 reasons and now Somanath's nehle pe dehla. good analysis buddy.
arre woh crimemaster gogo is back ,

yes buddy similiar threads were there but they are not created by DR somnath 999 (lord of 32 teeth) :D

---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 PM ----------

i agree with OP

remember some months ago Germany was thinking not to sell EFT to India.

Except UK we don't have close relations with other 3 nations.

Even UK cant be trusted like France and Russia.
all are indirectly related to USA & we all know they are not as friendly as FRENCH
 
Can you give more info on Stealth version of Rafale....
 
3.India could now get all technological help from french for LCA mark2 / future fighters like AMCA in key departments

* KAVERI engine development with Scenema
* 5th gen Avionics/ EW suite (spectra) codevelopment with THALES
* Meteor missile development with MBDA & it could be used in development of Ramjet powered
ASTRA A-A missile
* AESA Radar development

and afcorse AURA
 
Can you give more info on Stealth version of Rafale....
well it is in concept stages right now , intially french offered to codevelop it with UAE i.e rafale's F4 standard
Dassault-UAE May Have Rafale Deal This Year | Gannett Government Media | defensenews.com
but if india wants to develop it further the french could coperate

here is an article
Rafale F3-O4T and beyond
Last May 19, The French Defense Procurement Agency (DGA) invited all the international defense press in order to expose the last Rafale milestones reached as well as the futures upgrades planned.












First, the Rafale F3-O4T (former Rafale roadmap) : 60 fighters ordered (25C, 25B, 10M) deliveries from 2013 to 2019
RBE-2 AESA : Final evaluation in June-July with a qualification expected before the end of 2011
DDM-NG : new missile warning receiver compatible with a future active IR jammer.
OSF-IT : improved front sector optronic suite
Damocles-XF : add a sharper TV channel to the current IR channel for better identification in urban zones. Should be introduced in 2016.
M88-2-E4 engine : extended service life and 2 to 4% less consumption
Export option : 9 tonnes M88 engine. Require a 1.5 cm air intake enlargement and material change to keep low RCS. Proposed to the UAE.

2025 MLU :
RCS improvements
Conformal AESA : increase the radar coverage and seen as a better solution than a single moving antenna
Thrust Vector Control for the M88 engine
Sat Com system
UCAV control system
Unfortunately, no word about a possible HMD...
Rafale News: Rafale F3-O4T and beyond

---------- Post added at 05:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------

and afcorse AURA
well why not DASSAULT can help us as they are going to launch Neuron UCAV soon
 
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