Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Skull and Bones]

Let's see:



The Ministry of External Affairs has said the understanding (only an understanding?) between India and France over the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets will soon (whenever Indians say 'Will Soon"- it will be 15 years +... ) be translated into a government to government agreement.

"What has been agreed is an understanding and it will be translated into a government to government agreement. For this, the French and the Indian Defence Ministers will sit with their technical officials and their financial people and will work out all the details (great! as if Indians were good at details) ," MEA official spokesperson Syed Akbaruddin told ANI.

"Now, that there is an agreement in principle ( in principle?! ) , please give some time for the nitty-gritty to be worked out ( I saw these words millions of times here from the Indians, few are positive though) . And once this is worked out (oke, think 15 years plus) by the technical people, these will be (what Indians can do without "will"? ) certainly made public," he added.



Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who is presently on a two-day visit to France, had on Friday ordered 36 "ready-to-fly" French-made Rafale fighter jets.

The 36 Rafale jets are expected to be inducted into the Indian Air Force (IAF) within a span of two years (2 years or 20? it's quite hilarious )

Chinese are never known for their English comprehension, therefore I don't blame you for your limited hold over the language.

 

[uparyupari]

As expected you desi low lives resort to abuses at last

Apparently not enough to save your policemen from naxalites.

Its "low life" you dumb $hit ........and we have all identified you as one. Now crawl back under that rock.

 

[SR-91]

High altitude alright but not all warfare will be on high altitude , you would need Heavy gunships like Apache in big numbers in open terrain warfare involving tanks.


U r

So shall i dance , i have never been to Gujarat and never wish to , i am born american and will die american , dont have much affinity towards India.

u r one of those fake Indian American. Most of us Indian Americans are proud Indians n u r making us look bad. U should leave.

 

[mad_max]

u r one of those fake Indian American. Most of us Indian Americans are proud Indians n u r making us look bad. U should leave.

Its personal opinion and I find nothing to be proud of , i dont even hang out with many desi's.
And I will leave when I wish so.

 

[Koovie]

Good luck defending yourself with 4 hard point light chopper with very limited payload and radar capability , seriously your quote suits you comparing a non existent useless chopper to Apaches ?

Its called Light Combat Helicopter for a reason. Heavy choppers like the Apache will have problems operating in high altitude areas, thats why India was forced to develop its own lighter combat helo for its border regions.

 

[uparyupari]

Its personal opinion and I find nothing to be proud of , i dont even hang out with many desi's.
And I will leave when I wish so.

This will help you, Mr. " i am born american"

Madrassa's are a terrible place to learn English.

 

[mad_max]

Its "low life" you dumb $hit ........and we have all identified you as one. Now crawl back under that rock.

so we are grunting here over typos , cheers !!

 

[uparyupari]

so we are grunting here over typos , cheers !!

LOL. Its MUCH more than just typos

IF you knew English, you would have realized it.

 

[mad_max]

LOL. Its MUCH more than just typos

IF you knew English, you would have realized it.

** YAWN **

 

[uparyupari]

** YAWN **

Very articulate

I think we are all convinced

 

[mad_max]

Very articulate

I think we are all convinced

Is it time for your medication , GOOD BYE , I dont have time for this nonsense.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Our friend @Gessler tried checking with PSK (Trishul blogger) about rafale order. A good reply from PSK

Gessler said...So, Prasunji, we would eventually end up with 189 Rafales or 63 Rafales?
Prasun K. Sengupta said...To GESSLER:
Eventually, in the fullness of time, the IAF will end up with 189 Rafale M-MRCAs. That's a given. But the negotiations had got stuck over the cost of licenced-production of the 108 units. India was haggling over the labour cost parameters that are graded from 1 to 10. While the Russians had obtained Grade 6 for Su-30MKI, the French were asking for 8, while the Indians wanted it to be limited to 7. So, in the end, a compromise was struck under which India would order 36 Rafales off-the-shelf without any offsets of any kind & the French in turn would tone down their stance & come down to 7. Therefore, in nett terms, the French have won & India’s illogical negotiating shortsightedness (from 2012 till now) has been fully exposed. And NaMo too has realised at last that there are clear technological & human resource limits to how far the ‘Make in India’ mantra can be flogged. And this deal for 36 Rafales was conceived entirely by Union Finance Minister Arun Jaitley & was fully endorsed by NaMo. Everyone else was in the dark on this issue. If 153 Rafales can be similarly ordered in successive tranches, then that will be the ideal solution. Because paying an exorbitant price for the so-called licenced-production of Rafales just to keep a few thousand employees of HAL gainfully employed for the next 20 years DOES NOT stand up to logic. Nor does such licenced-produiction lead to self-reliance of any kind anywhere. Far better therefore to utilize the money saved for the Tejas Mk2/LCA (Navy) Mk2 R & D effort, where at least 80% indigenisation can be expected in all domains except for the propulsion system.


@halloweene @sancho @Abingdonboy
Anyone of you had heard about the labour cost parameters and scale issues (france wanting 8 versus India stating 7)?
Its a new news to me. Till now i had heard about liability, guarantee and higher productivity cost due to lower manpower efficiency of HAL..

Another new dimension

Sitanshu Kar @SpokespersonMoD · 27m27 minutes ago
#MMRCA A car can not run on two paths simultaneoulsy: Defence Minister @manoharparrikar talking about the status of the existing RfP.

New Delhi, Delhi
Sitanshu Kar @SpokespersonMoD · 37m37 minutes ago
#MMRCA Negotiation under the existing RfP had 'gone into a loop with no solution in sight': Defence Minister @manoharparrikar


Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 1m1 minute ago
#36Rafale Essence of @manoharparrikar 's explanation on @narendramodi deal with France: MMRCA tender scrapped, Rafale purchase cap at 36


Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 30m30 minutes ago
#36 Rafale @manoharparrikar indicatees that IAF will have to make do with less than authorised strength of 42 combat squadrons


Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 31m31 minutes ago
"#36Rafale @manoharparrikar MMRCA tender's slipped into vortex.36 flyaway Rafales.May decide diff no for Make in India Rafales. Options open

Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 33m33 minutes ago
4/n #36Rafale @manoharparrikar 42 combat squadrons for IAF a target, but have to manage with less. Costs for 126 Rafales a "steep slope

Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 35m35 minutes ago
3/n #36Rafale @manoharparrikar: HAL's manpower reqt ratio of 2.7:1 (visavis OEM) high,driving up costs Details on Make in India in 2 months


Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 37m37 minutes ago
2/n @manoharparrikar hints Rafale numbers to be below 126. Only 36 flyaway imports. Options open on Make in India.HAL costs were a problem


Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 39m39 minutes ago
FLASH: #36Rafale @manoharparrikar: MMRCA tender to be scrapped. Entire Rafale procurement in government-to-government deal 1/N

 

[migflug]

Sitanshu Kar– ‏@SpokespersonMoD

#MMRCA G-2-G route better than the RfP path for acquisition of strategic platforms: Defence Minister Manohar @manoharparrikar


MMRCA looks to be scrapped

Our friend @Gessler tried checking with PSK (Trishul blogger) about rafale order. A good reply from PSK

Gessler said...So, Prasunji, we would eventually end up with 189 Rafales or 63 Rafales?
Prasun K. Sengupta said...To GESSLER:
Eventually, in the fullness of time, the IAF will end up with 189 Rafale M-MRCAs. That's a given. But the negotiations had got stuck over the cost of licenced-production of the 108 units. India was haggling over the labour cost parameters that are graded from 1 to 10. While the Russians had obtained Grade 6 for Su-30MKI, the French were asking for 8, while the Indians wanted it to be limited to 7. So, in the end, a compromise was struck under which India would order 36 Rafales off-the-shelf without any offsets of any kind & the French in turn would tone down their stance & come down to 7. Therefore, in nett terms, the French have won & India’s illogical negotiating shortsightedness (from 2012 till now) has been fully exposed. And NaMo too has realised at last that there are clear technological & human resource limits to how far the ‘Make in India’ mantra can be flogged. And this deal for 36 Rafales was conceived entirely by Union Finance Minister Arun Jaitley & was fully endorsed by NaMo. Everyone else was in the dark on this issue. If 153 Rafales can be similarly ordered in successive tranches, then that will be the ideal solution. Because paying an exorbitant price for the so-called licenced-production of Rafales just to keep a few thousand employees of HAL gainfully employed for the next 20 years DOES NOT stand up to logic. Nor does such licenced-produiction lead to self-reliance of any kind anywhere. Far better therefore to utilize the money saved for the Tejas Mk2/LCA (Navy) Mk2 R & D effort, where at least 80% indigenisation can be expected in all domains except for the propulsion system.


@halloweene @sancho @Abingdonboy
Anyone of you had heard about the labour cost parameters and scale issues (france wanting 8 versus India stating 7)?
Its a new news to me. Till now i had heard about liability, guarantee and higher productivity cost due to lower manpower efficiency of HAL..

manohar parrikar saying the same

 

[PARIKRAMA]

The series of twets is disturbing.. Rafale capped at only 36 with MMRCA dead means either another bird in that category or PAKFA earlier variants coming in or may be rumored Su35Stealth (really)?) or eprhaps the beginning of the AMCA in a big way.


So logically Dassault played too hard ball and lost a scope for 200 birds? and had to be content with just 36???


@MilSpec @Abingdonboy @sancho @halloweene

 

[uparyupari]

Is it time for your medication , GOOD BYE , I dont have time for this nonsense.

"Is it time for your medication" ends with a question mark "?", not a comma

Goodbye is a single word ...and ends with a full stop or a exclamation mark , not a comma.

"I dont" is actually "I don't" ........... see the apostrophe ?