Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[uparyupari]

The series of twets is disturbing.. Rafale capped at only 36 with MMRCA dead means either another bird in that category or PAKFA earlier variants coming in or may be rumored Su35Stealth (really)?) or eprhaps the beginning of the AMCA in a big way.

So logically Dassault played too hard ball and lost a scope for 200 birds? and had to be content with just 36???

@MilSpec @Abingdonboy @sancho @halloweene

Similar to the 49 Mirage 2000 deal in the 1980's

This time its 36 Rafale, just history repeating itself. Hopefully we will learn our lesson this time and focus on indigenous design and manufacture.


The more things change, the more things remain the same.

 

[duhastmish]

"Is it time for your medication" ends with a question mark "?", not a comma

Goodbye is a single word ...and ends with a full stop or a exclamation mark , not a comma.

"I dont" is actually "I don't" ........... see the apostrophe ?

Bhai le lee

Good one.

--------/----/

Apache will be much needed boost for indian army. Although india don't have grave need right now, for any domestic issue such as Maoist. Having said that we must be prepared for any future endeavour.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Our friend @Gessler tried checking with PSK (Trishul blogger) about rafale order. A good reply from PSK

Gessler said...So, Prasunji, we would eventually end up with 189 Rafales or 63 Rafales?
Prasun K. Sengupta said...To GESSLER:
Eventually, in the fullness of time, the IAF will end up with 189 Rafale M-MRCAs. That's a given. But the negotiations had got stuck over the cost of licenced-production of the 108 units. India was haggling over the labour cost parameters that are graded from 1 to 10. While the Russians had obtained Grade 6 for Su-30MKI, the French were asking for 8, while the Indians wanted it to be limited to 7. So, in the end, a compromise was struck under which India would order 36 Rafales off-the-shelf without any offsets of any kind & the French in turn would tone down their stance & come down to 7. Therefore, in nett terms, the French have won & India’s illogical negotiating shortsightedness (from 2012 till now) has been fully exposed. And NaMo too has realised at last that there are clear technological & human resource limits to how far the ‘Make in India’ mantra can be flogged. And this deal for 36 Rafales was conceived entirely by Union Finance Minister Arun Jaitley & was fully endorsed by NaMo. Everyone else was in the dark on this issue. If 153 Rafales can be similarly ordered in successive tranches, then that will be the ideal solution. Because paying an exorbitant price for the so-called licenced-production of Rafales just to keep a few thousand employees of HAL gainfully employed for the next 20 years DOES NOT stand up to logic. Nor does such licenced-produiction lead to self-reliance of any kind anywhere. Far better therefore to utilize the money saved for the Tejas Mk2/LCA (Navy) Mk2 R & D effort, where at least 80% indigenisation can be expected in all domains except for the propulsion system.


@halloweene @sancho @Abingdonboy
Anyone of you had heard about the labour cost parameters and scale issues (france wanting 8 versus India stating 7)?
Its a new news to me. Till now i had heard about liability, guarantee and higher productivity cost due to lower manpower efficiency of HAL..

Another new dimension

Sitanshu Kar @SpokespersonMoD · 27m27 minutes ago
#MMRCA A car can not run on two paths simultaneoulsy: Defence Minister @manoharparrikar talking about the status of the existing RfP.

New Delhi, Delhi
Sitanshu Kar @SpokespersonMoD · 37m37 minutes ago
#MMRCA Negotiation under the existing RfP had 'gone into a loop with no solution in sight': Defence Minister @manoharparrikar


Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 1m1 minute ago
#36Rafale Essence of @manoharparrikar 's explanation on @narendramodi deal with France: MMRCA tender scrapped, Rafale purchase cap at 36


Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 30m30 minutes ago
#36 Rafale @manoharparrikar indicatees that IAF will have to make do with less than authorised strength of 42 combat squadrons


Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 31m31 minutes ago
"#36Rafale @manoharparrikar MMRCA tender's slipped into vortex.36 flyaway Rafales.May decide diff no for Make in India Rafales. Options open

Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 33m33 minutes ago
4/n #36Rafale @manoharparrikar 42 combat squadrons for IAF a target, but have to manage with less. Costs for 126 Rafales a "steep slope

Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 35m35 minutes ago
3/n #36Rafale @manoharparrikar: HAL's manpower reqt ratio of 2.7:1 (visavis OEM) high,driving up costs Details on Make in India in 2 months


Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 37m37 minutes ago
2/n @manoharparrikar hints Rafale numbers to be below 126. Only 36 flyaway imports. Options open on Make in India.HAL costs were a problem


Vishal Thapar @thaparvishal · 39m39 minutes ago
FLASH: #36Rafale @manoharparrikar: MMRCA tender to be scrapped. Entire Rafale procurement in government-to-government deal 1/N

MMRCA Tender "Gone with the Wind" !!!

 

[Ind4Ever]

So for :

TEJAS IS OUR REPLACEMENT FOR MIG21

There are 12/13 issue like blacklisting , offset procedures . So commitity will be formed in 7 days . And discussion will take place for the next 60 days or so. To form a credible procurement procedures

 

[SRP]

India says any future Rafale jet purchases will be govt-to-govt

Reuters) - Any future purchases of Rafale fighter jets will be through direct negotiations with the French government, India's defence minister said on Monday, calling into question an ongoing commercial negotiation with Dassault Aviation(AVMD.PA) for 126 aircraft.

India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Friday announced a plan to buy 36 jets from Dassault through the government-to-government route.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said Modi's decision came after the commercial negotiation went into a "vortex," but stopped short of saying the government had scrapped the negotiation for a contract with Dassault, worth up to $20 billion.

"This had to be done to break the vortex," he said, adding that the preferred method was now to talk directly to the French government.

"A car cannot travel on two roads," he told reporters.

(Reporting by Sanjeev Miglani; Writing by Frank Jack Daniel)


India says any future Rafale jet purchases will be govt-to-govt| Reuters

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

India says any future Rafale jet purchases will be govt-to-govt

Reuters) - Any future purchases of Rafale fighter jets will be through direct negotiations with the French government, India's defence minister said on Monday, calling into question an ongoing commercial negotiation with Dassault Aviation(AVMD.PA) for 126 aircraft.

India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Friday announced a plan to buy 36 jets from Dassault through the government-to-government route.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said Modi's decision came after the commercial negotiation went into a "vortex," but stopped short of saying the government had scrapped the negotiation for a contract with Dassault, worth up to $20 billion.

"This had to be done to break the vortex," he said, adding that the preferred method was now to talk directly to the French government.

"A car cannot travel on two roads," he told reporters.

(Reporting by Sanjeev Miglani; Writing by Frank Jack Daniel)


India says any future Rafale jet purchases will be govt-to-govt| Reuters

BUT YOU MISSED MOST IMPORTANT THING.

#36Rafale Essence of @manoharparrikar 's explanation on @narendramodi deal with France:
MMRCA tender scrapped, Rafale purchase cap at 36

— Vishal Thapar (@thaparvishal) April 13, 2015

 

[PARIKRAMA]

What i make of the tweets is that if the MMRCA is being scrapped the most likely reason is because there are things that are things within the negotiations that are unlikely to be fully agreed upon mutually. So if you unshackle dassault from the MMRCA there is really nothing stopping them from choosing to exercise "MAKE IN INDIA" with the rafale by partnering with a company that it wanted to partner with all along. Meaning Reliance and Dassault would produce Rafale in India and perhaps GOI will buy from them. It may lead to a second line of production outside France in India from a strategic perspective.

The carrot for Dassault in all this is obviously the chance to sell follow on's and the long term support and upgrade. And PM Modi pitch for Make in India becomes a proper reality

 

[Ind4Ever]

SCORPENE subs will undergo serious testing till 2016 before it get inducted . From then every 9 months 1 sub will be inducted .

Rafale deal is an important decisions in the interest of the country . Which will replace aging Mig 27 s . From today discussion will take place with French counter parts. As till now discussion took place between two leaders. So from now clear info will be conveyed to the contracts and all other issue.

On Dr.swami filling case on Rafale deal :

Swami is our most respected member , I will invite him one day to explain him about the contracts which we will sign is clear and may be one of the best deal for India than UPAs MMRCA . 70% is missile 30% is missiles ( overall cost of the deal)

I saw the comment made by dogvijay on modi buying jets like buying Fish . But let me tell you Fish has protein which can improve his mental capacity Lol

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Did he tell about Rafale NUMBERS

What after 36

 

[Ind4Ever]

Rafale deal is major step for iAF

On fDI and Make in India .

The idea of make in India is to buy weapons and make then here when we are importing more than 60 % from abroad . So we 30% -50% on some cases will help to achieve this

 

[Stephen Cohen]

on Which channel interview is going on

 

[uparyupari]

What i make of the tweets is that if the MMRCA is being scrapped the most likely reason is because there are things that are things within the negotiations that are unlikely to be fully agreed upon mutually. So if you unshackle dassault from the MMRCA there is really nothing stopping them from choosing to exercise "MAKE IN INDIA" with the rafale by partnering with a company that it wanted to partner with all along. Meaning Reliance and Dassault would produce Rafale in India and perhaps GOI will buy from them. It may lead to a second line of production outside France in India from a strategic perspective.

The carrot for Dassault in all this is obviously the chance to sell follow on's and the long term support and upgrade. And PM Modi pitch for Make in India becomes a proper reality

The Only problem is the Dassault is unlikely to do a genuine ToT with Reliance and Modi govt. is unlikely to fall for the CON job.

If dassault was genuinely interested in a ToT, then HAL was a proven partner.

 

[Ind4Ever]

30000 cr for additional purchase other than budget .

On New mountain strike Corp : There are no motive to use all our reserve . We are using just a few but not to a level where it's uncomfortable level . Before there was no fund a looted . That's why I have kept some 30 K cr for this purpose

I conveyed my Good will to Mr Vk Singh for operation Rahat. Fabulous operation by any country . I Congo all who wr involved in it

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Rafale numbers ????

 

[Stephen Cohen]

BUT YOU MISSED MOST IMPORTANT THING.

#36Rafale Essence of @manoharparrikar 's explanation on @narendramodi deal with France:
MMRCA tender scrapped, Rafale purchase cap at 36

— Vishal Thapar (@thaparvishal) April 13, 2015

ABSOLUTE Nonsense

36 is PEANUTS

They want more 36 is the Carrot for Dassault