Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Dash]

I always hear this but I don't like it.

They say no news is good news.

Unfortunately it true for MMRCA

 

[randomradio]

Yes but then

"Now, we all know that a lot of things can go happen between the interviewee’s brain and the interviewer’s keyboard, but the idea that the F-35 is stealthier than the F-22 contradicts pretty much everything that has been said about the program for the past 20 years, including the reporting of my former colleague, the usually well-informed Dave Fulghum.

The statement is curious for other reasons. Nobody ever suggested in the program’s formative years that the goal was to beat the F-22's stealth - and indeed that would be extremely unlikely since the JSF was designed for export. Stealth, along with other requirements, was also subject to trades in the development of the final JSF requirement, and less important than life-cycle cost.

The geometrical basics of stealth -- sweep and cant angles, minimized small-radius curves and nozzle design -- favor the F-22, and everything anyone has said about radar absorbent materials for years has been about life-cycle cost rather than performance.

Hostage is effusive about the value of the F-35’s sensor fusion and datalinks, too:

“Fusion says here’s what’s out there. You told me, this one right here’s a threat. Here’s what it’s doing right now. Here’s what your wingman (knows): he sees he’s got a missile on the right, so I’m not going to waste a missile because I already see that my wingman’s taking care of it.”"

Source: Google "aviationweek & f-35-stealthier-f-22" again first link

There have been major upgrades since the F-22.

Shaping is losing its relevance in stealth. The F-22 has slightly better shaping but the F-35 has better materials and avionics. The F-35 deflect and absorb waves much better than the F-22. That's why the smaller RCS.

And modern avionics means the F-22's current stealth techniques have become obsolete. The FGFA will be the new standard for stealth in a few years.

More modern aircraft are being built with radar absorbent structures. The F-22 doesn't have it.

 

[Abingdonboy]

not much .. Since MP can showcase how he is getting offers from LM, Boeing and Saab by not signing Rafale order.

LM has already come out with big guns and and talked about 35 and 22E.. Boeing may be out soon with new competitive offer. Saab already gave an offer.. So he has things to back up his stone walling ..

But those other offers are entirely seperate to the Rafale deal, I don't see why he is letting them interfere with the Rafale deal signing


Such bhanyia logic

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Hmmm.... if I am optimistic I see US getting some competition .....

https://twitter.com/x/status/751320147164598272

 

[[Bregs]]

But those other offers are entirely seperate to the Rafale deal, I don't see why he is letting them interfere with the Rafale deal signing


Such bhanyia logic

sometimes our leaders try too hard to shown them self as best ever minister and this seems to be the case of MP. despite being an educated minister he has made many goof up with his tongue too and now this criminal delays again

 

[Abingdonboy]

Hmmm.... if I am optimistic I see US getting some competition .....

https://twitter.com/x/status/751320147164598272

Go with the French and don't look back, the US aren't looking for partners (the French are), they are looking for subservient "allies" and India cannot afford to become another Japan, Canada, Australia or UK, it should look to tie up with the only major Western nation with an independant foreign policy and autonomous strategic industry......France.

 

[Dash]

@PARIKRAMA man, those are MII deals why will they be discussed in DAC?

I see no logic @Abingdonboy

 

[Abingdonboy]

sometimes our leaders try too hard to shown them self as best ever minister and this seems to be the case of MP.

100% this.

Whilst others in the Cabinet are letting their actions speak for themselves, MP is chosing to use his big mouth to compensate for his pathetic lack of (tanigble) results.

@PARIKRAMA man, those are MII deals why will they be discussed in DAC?

I see no logic @Abingdonboy

If they are being pursued under the DPP-2016 (strategic chapter) then the DAC will have to clear/discuss any such offer/deal.

 

[#hydra#]

F16 and SH18 on the table. India not interested.

F35 on the table. India even don't open an eye.

Now F22 on the table... Please, wait ! in some weeks USA will offer you the tech for Seawolf and Virginia SSN, plus Falcon 9 one, plus EMALS and THAAD tech....

In my opinion if they offered b2 spirit,then India shouldn't close its eye. Any thing less than b2 isn't a worthy buy for India.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

agreed but all these offers have nothing to do at least with the signing of 36 Rafale aircrafts, he can delay rafale MII but not the ready made deal for 36

But those other offers are entirely seperate to the Rafale deal, I don't see why he is letting them interfere with the Rafale deal signing


Such bhanyia logic

What i really understand is perhaps the financial position of paying signing amount is more desired in Q3 or Q4 .. May be that is the whole reason of this game being played out. Even in case of MII being chosen in Q4 or by Marc 2017, again the actual signing and any kind of firm financial commitments would spill over..

It is understood that this december Indo Russian summit will see a much aggressive announcement in PAKFA successful testing being over. So a amount of substantial $$$ has to be paid that side as well. That along with confirmation payments of S400 and N sub lease which may join us in 2018-19.

Perhaps all this, is making DM play it out and probably French side is aware of it (being told) bcz they had been quiet and had been waiting without creating any fuss or negative comment anywhere.

 

[Dash]

100% this.

Whilst others in the Cabinet are letting their actions speak for themselves, MP is chosing to use his big mouth to compensate for his pathetic lack of (tanigble) results.


If they are being pursued under the DPP-2016 (strategic chapter) then the DAC will have to clear/discuss any such offer/deal.

DAC doesn't work like that. You need MOD approval for any discussion on any strategic or tactical things to be discussed in DAC. in case we all forgot here "MMRCA is being actively pursued by PMO and MOD is a secondary stakeholder.

That means if you need to discuss MII with a link to MMRCA it needs backing of PMO.

I clearly don't see that's the case here. For MMRCA Modi is the boss not Parikar. No matter what.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

The conversation ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/752925990037381123

https://twitter.com/x/status/752936964555468800

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I also asked vstol in another forum parallel..
see here

With this i have more confidence that tomorrow may be a better outcome with DAC discussion (not like in May and June ones where everything i said back in April is over was supposed to be signed and taken fwd).

Again his timeline is also similar to what i wrote just few mins back that deal may see actual movement in Q3/Q4 from the perspective of payment and how french side may be aware of it..

 

[Abingdonboy]

DAC doesn't work like that. You need MOD approval for any discussion on any strategic or tactical things to be discussed in DAC. in case we all forgot here "MMRCA is being actively pursued by PMO and MOD is a secondary stakeholder.

That means if you need to discuss MII with a link to MMRCA it needs backing of PMO.

I clearly don't see that's the case here. For MMRCA Modi is the boss not Parikar. No matter what.

For a deal to be pursued through the DPP-2016 it will need to have DAC approval. But you are right that MII deals will go through the PMO.

The conversation ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/752925990037381123

https://twitter.com/x/status/752936964555468800

Old news (France imposing "new" unfair conditions that aren't actually new or unfair conditions at all).

Sputnik is nothing but propoganda.

 

[BON PLAN]

Yes, and then General Hostage showed up and said the F-35 has a smaller RCS and is more stealthy than the F-22.

? Always read the contrary.
Maybe, maybe F35 is stealthier than F22 in front sector, but it was said that F35 is mainly stealthier in front area, while F22 is all sector stealthier.
And when you have a look to F35, it is less pure and clean design than F22.
No bump, same diamond nose, same tilted fin, better shaped air entry in the F22. It must help in final RCS result.

* please note that the French don't have plans to induct a SINGLE 5th gen type

Our 5th gen plane will be a UCAV developped with GB (and Deutchland?)