Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[randomradio]

@Blue Marlin This saga is turning into an utter joke,either Indians buy it or not,that's simple.
In some months of negociations we sold 48 jets to two countries. (Option for 12 more = Qatar)
-
We are fast approaching the "anniversary" of the announcement to buy 36 jets and still nothing....
We expected the deal to be signed soon after Modi's visit = Nothing.
We expected the deal to be signed before the end of 2015 = Nothing.
We had our last hope to see this deal signed during India's republic day = Nothing.

You must be very patient with India seriously....

Bro each time the deal specifics have changed.

Earlier IAF wanted MMRCA configuration, this was expected to be signed in the IGA by September. Then they added 50% offsets and Make in India, so negotiations took more time. Then they changed the configuration for more Indian specific equipment and new engine. So all of these have contributed to delays.

You can't compare the Qatar and Egypt deal because they haven't opted for a major change in specification from the French version and neither do they plan on building 200+ of them in their own country.

Don't forget that IN is yet to complete evaluation of Rafales. IN's decision can add 50-150 Rafales, depending on their own priorities. So final Make in India numbers are yet to be finalized. This can also contribute to delays.

The MMRCA deal was canceled after it was completed.

 

[Blue Marlin]

@Blue Marlin This saga is turning into an utter joke,either Indians buy it or not,that's simple.
In some months of negociations we sold 48 jets to two countries. (Option for 12 more = Qatar)
-
We are fast approaching the "anniversary" of the announcement to buy 36 jets and still nothing....
We expected the deal to be signed soon after Modi's visit = Nothing.
We expected the deal to be signed before the end of 2015 = Nothing.
We had our last hope to see this deal signed during India's republic day = Nothing.

You must be very patient with India seriously....

im guessing they have broken you @Vauban !
let me pu it to you like this, im staring to feel happy that they chose the rafale over the typhoon. the negotiations would be twice as long after negotiating with 3 companies in 4 countries. heck 2020 would be a conservative time frame!
well acording to @Abingdonboy a deal would be concluded before 31st of march. I'm gonna try keep quiet till then after that i will be under the assumption they are not interested in the rafale no more as yes its taken way to long. in their defense they are external forces(companies) that want to break the deal so they can buy their own jets instead. heck even lockheed Martin offered to build f16's in india! thats desperate even for the world largest defense contractor.
if they dont trust the yanks and find europe to expensive then go for the mig 35 and more mki's play it safe rather than suicidal. the tejas is quiet strange but the should just continue with it and ignore the gripen too. the way india planned it out was awful and was a disaster from the beginning. i dont think we are to interested in selling them typhoons to them. if the rafale is too big for them then the typhoon will give them a heart attack!

 

[Abingdonboy]

MIC is the acronym for Military Industrial Complex coined by President Eisenhower
who knew both sides very well.

Former general and great visionary:

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961


In terms of what we now know of US history, his words are almost prophetic.

 

[SirHatesALot]

End this drama go with Russians they are better and know Indian market better than anyone.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@waz @Oscar @HRK sirs, can we get this thread moved to the Rafale discussions sticky?

 

[Dr Gupta]

You chaps need to understand how business works and why we can wait..... the aim is to get the best deal

Egypt case is very different they had a pressing need... India does not and the defence minister is absolutely right there will be no ink until there is a drop in price.

 

[Hulk]

I think India should seriously start looking at other options for taking care of depleting numbers. Rafale seems difficult to be done, I am losing faith.

 

[randomradio]

@waz @Oscar @HRK sirs, can we get this thread moved to the Rafale discussions sticky?

@waz @Oscar @HRK

No, please don't, it will only add 6 pages of ranting to the sticky. It's built on an anti-Dassault lobby anyway.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@waz @Oscar @HRK

No, please don't, it will only add 6 pages of ranting to the sticky.

Haha, well it may also encourage some less informed members to read back through the sticky and see the complexity of the situation. These despair "cancel the Rafale deal" threads pop up every other day so it would be better for all those getting emotional about it to see the reality and not just what the Indian media's vested interests produce or what games the DM is trying to play.

 

[Dr Gupta]

I think India should seriously start looking at other options for taking care of depleting numbers. Rafale seems difficult to be done, I am losing faith.

It will be done but it's a game of poker

 

[Hulk]

The Indians will of course buy the 36,because Modi needs this deal. (Face saving,you know...) @C130
And as we found new clients for the Rafale (Qatar,Egypt) and soon a deal could be signed with the UAE for 60 Rafale,(Deal in final stages!),we are in better positions in the negociations than we were 4 years ago.
-
The target might have decreased from 126 to 36,but at least,the 36 will be built in France. (Compared to 18.)

You don't know Modi. A Gujarati businessmen can never have ego. No business should/can be done for face saving.

 

[Dr Gupta]

We are tight its just the way we are they will reduce the price watch.....

 

[cerberus]

Yes, there are always sudden issues that cause the end.

This Small Deal Very Little in Its Dynamics To Make Impact in Diplomacy Btw India And France

There Deals which are Already Going Smooth Like Scorpene Submarines And TATA -Airbus or Mahindra & Airbus
other than That FDI in Indian Corporate Sector By French Firms.Rafale is one more Ingredient in this that's all

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Pls keep this thread clean...

Humble request

 

[The Eagle]

This Small Deal Very Little in Its Dynamics To Make Impact in Diplomacy Btw India And France

There Deals which are Already Going Smooth Like Scorpene Submarines And TATA -Airbus or Mahindra & Airbus
other than That FDI in Indian Corporate Sector By French Firms.Rafale is one more Ingredient in this that's all

Indeed I will be watching here about the end result. These are MoD words that a little sign of stalled deal that I showed my concern about. My opinion.