Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Abingdonboy]

why we are even negotiating on the RFP terms and conditions ? Isn't that agreed at the time of participation ?

Ask any lawyer, there is no such thing as an iron clad agreement. Wording and the "spirit" of the terms are all open for debate. When hundreds of millions are on the line, if not billions, then both sides are going to be putting their interpretation of the agreements very forcefully and this is why we are seeing the current storm around the Rafale deal.

 

[Gandhi follower]

Ask any lawyer, there is no such thing as an iron clad agreement. Wording and the "spirit" of the terms are all open for debate. When hundreds of millions are on the line, if not billions, then both sides are going to be putting their interpretation of the agreements very forcefully and this is why we are seeing the current storm around the Rafale deal.

I will go by the words of DM, as the deal is stalled because of dassault intransigence to meet the RFP terms & conditions. They have taken India for a ride by delaying the deal and almost doubling the price.

 

[sancho]

why we are even negotiating on the RFP terms and conditions ? Isn't that agreed at the time of participation ?

WE aren't, Dassault is!

Mr. Antony clarified that the criteria in the request for proposal for the MMRCAs were final and non-negotiable, setting at rest speculation that their licensed production may be curtailed or taken out of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.

Antony rules out budgetary cuts affecting defence priorities - The Hindu

The French group has also formed a joint venture with the Indian conglomerate Reliance, which has no former military production experience but will be involved as a supplier.

Said the air chief in response to a question that, "The contract between Dassault and Reliance does not bother us, as per the RfP production has to be carried out in India jointly with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited."

Deal to procure Rafale planes highest priority: Air Chief Browne - Indian Express

Parrikar said that the government must stand its ground and not give in during negotiations. Parrikar’s opinion is seconded by the Joint Secretary and Acquisition Manager (Air) Rajeev Verma, who plays a key role in the deal. Verma, a 1992 UT-cadre IAS officer, has made it clear that till the French side agrees to ministry’s demand, which was specified in the original tender, there will be no progress on the matter. During recent meetings of the negotiations committee, Verma has been virtually hostile towards the deal, say sources.

Rafale Deal Nosedives in Negotiation Combat -The New Indian Express

Rafale needs to meet RFP requirements for deal: Parrikar

...Asked about the long stuck deal for buying medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), the minister, in an interview to Headlines Today, said: "Ultimately, it has to fit the RFP... if it does not fit the RFP, nothing can be done."

Rafale needs to meet RFP requirements for deal: Parrikar

 

[DrSomnath999]

Typhoon progress includes ongoing work to integrate Storm Shadow and the capability to change target in flight, prior to launch. Meteor integration work is also progressing, and the first trial fits of Brimstone have been made.
In the RAF 2015 publication, the commander of the Typhoon force suggests that the next priority is getting funding to integrate RAPTOR, or a reconnaissance pod offering similar tactical imagery capability, to ensure that when Tornado goes out of service, the impact on capability is limited to numbers, instead of complete gaps.
On the other hand, funding for adding Conformal Fuel Tanks isn't likely to appear anytime soon.
AESA radar development is finally under contract, but there isn't, for now, a funded plan for retrofitting the radar to the Tranche 3A.
UK Armed Forces Commentary: The Equipment Plan and major projects report 2014

 

[sancho]

At least some news from Rafael :

Rafael’s ‘gatekeeper’ of the skies

...Rafael has recently unveiled the new version of its RecceLite self-contained, self-cooled, multi-sensor tactical reconnaissance system.

The Reccelite XR is based on the fourth generation of the system.

RecceLite simultaneously collects infra-red (IR) visual (VIS) and near IR digital images of large areas. The images and the data are recorded on a solid state recorder and transmitted to the ground exploitation station via the RecceLite data link...

...The new gimbaled version can be controlled from the ground to focus on “areas of interest”. In case of a data link failure, the system will send the images to the ground station immediately after the connection is re-established.

According to Yuval Miller, Rafael’s executive vice-president and the general manger of its Air and C4ISR systems division, the new version has improved sensors, resulting in longer range and better resolution...

...According to a Rafael source, the new upgraded version can look at a number of targets simultaneously and at ranges of up to 100km

Rafael's 'gatekeeper' of the skies - Ariel View

Litening offered to the U.S navy’s F-18

Rafael and Northrop Grumman are in advanced stages of developing a fifth generation of the Litening targeting pod that will be offered to the U.S navy F-18...

...This contract will include 300 pods and the demonstration is expected in 2017. A Rafael source said that the RFI set a standard that is far better from what the navy aircraft have today and “we will demonstrate something that is better than anything else on the market”...

...Rafael sources said that the new version will have greater range and better resolution.

Litening offered to the U.S navy's F-18 - i-HLS

Rafael developed a new precision-guided glide bomb with a 100 kg warhead under the brand name SPICE-250. Soon in service with IAF (Israeli Air Force)...

...the SPICE-250 offers a complete solution with a 250 pound (100 kg) warhead to a range of 100 km. The new bomb is offered with a range of warheads for various missions, such as destroying lightly-fortified bunkers, SSM and SAM batteries, vehicles or radar stations. The SPICE-250 will be showcased for the first time at the Aero India 2015 exhibition.

“In the past, a fighter aircraft had to cover a long distance and eventually release two munitions which did not always hit their targets. Now we have fighter aircraft that can destroy close to 30 targets in a single pass. A formation of four F-15 fighters can carry more than 100 munitions on a mission. This changes the way air power is employed. In fact, we are breaking the paradigm regarding the effectiveness of a sorties,” says Miller...

http://www.israeldefense.com/?CategoryID=483&ArticleID=3305

 

[Abingdonboy]

Typhoon progress includes ongoing work to integrate Storm Shadow and the capability to change target in flight, prior to launch. Meteor integration work is also progressing, and the first trial fits of Brimstone have been made.
In the RAF 2015 publication, the commander of the Typhoon force suggests that the next priority is getting funding to integrate RAPTOR, or a reconnaissance pod offering similar tactical imagery capability, to ensure that when Tornado goes out of service, the impact on capability is limited to numbers, instead of complete gaps.
On the other hand, funding for adding Conformal Fuel Tanks isn't likely to appear anytime soon.
AESA radar development is finally under contract, but there isn't, for now, a funded plan for retrofitting the radar to the Tranche 3A.
UK Armed Forces Commentary: The Equipment Plan and major projects report 2014

All talk of the EFT should stop vis a vis the MMRCA (@sancho I'm looking at you ) as I had suspected (and vocalised) there is no way for the L2 bidder to come back into a bid. The EFT's chances are precisely zero now.

it is between the Rafale and Su-30 MKI now and I'm pretty confident it is going to go the right way.

 

[Dr Gupta]

Upgrade the Sukhois we have and place a order for the S-400 system the rest can be invested in improving the domestic aerospace industry.

 

[sancho]

All talk of the EFT should stop vis a vis the MMRCA (@sancho I'm looking at you ) as I had suspected (and vocalised) there is no way for the L2 bidder to come back into a bid. The EFT's chances are precisely zero now.

it is between the Rafale and Su-30 MKI now and I'm pretty confident it is going to go the right way.

On the contrary my friend, the interview even showed the opposite, because the DM didn't ruled it out, nor did he admitted that the MKI is the only alternative! Instead he made it clear, that they can negotiate only with the L1 now and that the MKI is always an option, because we produce it, so it has no relation to the MMRCA as such. In case the L1 is not able to provide the product according to the requirements, the MoD will re-tender and logically will talk to the next acceptable choice, which is the L2, before they take a decision either to move on with the MMRCA or to go for the MKI option.

 

[Dr Gupta]

if MOD starts to negotiate with the L2 bidder it will drag on for another 1-2 years

 

[ejaz007]

India’s M-MRCA Fighter Deal: Finish Line in Sight?

Latest Update:

Jan 12/15: India to Dassault: Take It or Leave It

Anticipating a need to finally have the MMRCA buttoned down before leaders meet in April, India’s Defense Ministry has been talking in the press

about its willingness to walk away from the deal

unless Dassault agrees to binding assumption of certain time and cost liabilities. Dassault can be forgiven for not wishing to assume these, given the changing and still somewhat squishy requirements the Ministry has developed. For its part, the MoD is using strong language, indicating that Dassault is “reneging” on RFP requirements.

India’s M-MRCA Fighter Deal: Finish Line in Sight?

 

[SpArK]

 

[DrSomnath999]

what is the production rate /year of SU 30mki if it is from HAL or irkut??

CHEERS

 

[Superboy]

Not up to scale?

 

[sancho]

@halloweene

Here is another excerpt of the DPP2013, isn't that part talking about the responsibility of Dassault wrt the production line as well?

 

[DrSomnath999]

i have some nice goody goody info about Spice 250 PGM & it's relation to IAF
but i wont post it here now let the IAF disclosed it themselves later in future

CHEERS