CV-18 Fujian - Type 003 Aircraft Carrier News & Discussions

[帅的一匹]

Guys ... can You both calm down please and leave Your personal accusations on the one side and taking any critics as an insult or attack on the other?

This statement is surely not meant as a proof that China's catapult technology has already proven superior than the US' and even less in operational use, since there is no operational EMALS in CHina, anyway following the reports, it seems as if they are at least confident enough that during their tests it achieved a rate of success better or equal to the US systems that in fact faces difficulties.

The final testimony - and that even the biggest enthusiasts or fans cannot and wont deny - will be the operational use and here the Chinese Navy surely knows that it still lack years of expertise and experience they won't catch up easily.

Quite interesting my publisher had a meeting with the Chinese military attaché in Vienna and they were also speaking about their progress in carrier aviation and he openly admitted that they are practicing, practicing and practicing the hard way to learn and gain and that they surely know that the almost 70-years of experience the USN has cannot be catched up over night. Therefore they are practicing, practicing and practicing even more and they know that it will take time.
However he admitted that the progress achieved in recent years is promising enough to be confident that the technology will be mature and advanced enough to be comparable (or even better) with the latest US technology.

Deino

We lack a nuclear reactor, that's all we lack. Some more patience, we will pull it off next few years. China is doomed to challenge USA's supremacy on this planet, it can't be stopped. China is the first Country kicked US army's a$$ In Korea after World War II. China has too many talents and resources, all we need to do is buying time.

 

[Deino]

We lack a nuclear reactor, that's all we lack. Some more patience, we will pull it off next few years. China is doomed to challenge USA's supremacy on this planet, it can't be stopped. China is the first Country kicked US army's a$$ In Korea after World War II. China has too many talents and resources, all we need to do is buying time.

Honestly ... that's probably exactly that attitude that some guys like Gambit are criticising or mocking about: This is highly likely if the current trend will continue, but far from sure.

As such, claims "CHina is already superior in EMALS-technology" are plain stupid and not even anyone in the PLAN says so since they are all fully aware that CHina so far does not have a single operational catapult, not one working under different conditions day and night since years ... only the operational day-to-day-reliability proves if a certain design is better, more advanced than another one.

Otherwise it is like comparing a proven serial-system with one at an advanced stage of conception on CAD, maybe in mock-up form and claiming the new one is superior.

 

[帅的一匹]

Honestly ... that's probably exactly that attitude that some guys like Gambit are criticising or mocking about: This is highly likely if the current trend will continue, but far from sure.

As such, claims "CHina is already superior in EMALS-technology" are plain stupid and not even anyone in the PLAN says so since they are all fully aware that CHina so far does not have a single operational catapult, not one working under different conditions day and night since years ... only the operational day-to-day-reliability proves if a certain design is better, more advanced than another one.

Otherwise it is like comparing a proven serial-system with one at an advanced stage of conception on CAD, maybe in mock-up form and claiming the new one is superior.

I'm very confident and optimistic about the Chinese EMALS development. Please don't use the insulting word Like " plain stupid", please remember you are a moderator. As to who is real stupid we will see in the future.

 

[Deino]

I'm very confident and optimistic about the Chinese EMALS development. Please don't use the insulting word Like " plain stupid", please remember you are a moderator. As to who is real stupid we will see in the future.

Agreed, and it was not as an offence, but comparing a naval system that is probably older but mature since decades, a navy that has experiences since decades with a prototype system that is just working since a few months - even if reliable - and then telling the PLAN is more advanced in its EMALS system that is stupid.

Again and please don't get me wrong, how much advanced a system is, can only be judged after a longer period of use, in operational use under adverse conditions, and THIS final testimony has the Chinese EMALS yet to prove.
The fact that on paper and during these early tests it is more promising is not really the point.

So in conclusion You are correct: the future will tell and I'm indeed confident but as a nature-scientist at this stage and with the current experience available I would be very, very careful to come to such a strong conclusion.
Deino

 

[帅的一匹]

Agreed, and it was not as an offence, but comparing a naval system that is probably older but mature since decades, a navy that has experiences since decades with a prototype system that is just working since a few months - even if reliable - and then telling the PLAN is more advanced in its EMALS system that is stupid.

Again and please don't get me wrong, how much advanced a system is, can only be judged after a longer period of use, in operational use under adverse conditions, and THIS final testimony has the Chinese EMALS yet to prove.
The fact that on paper and during these early tests it is more promising is not really the point.

So in conclusion You are correct: the future will tell and I'm indeed confident but as a nature-scientist at this stage and with the current experience available I would be very, very careful to come to such a strong conclusion.
Deino

Deino. I hope one day German could get strong again. not in Nazi way, but a gloried German under Bismark. I hope you will support China rise.

 

[Deino]

Deino. I hope one day German could get strong again. not in Nazi way, but a gloried German under Bismark. I hope you will support China rise.

Yes I do support China's way; especially as an utmost political counterweight to the US.
Concerning Germany, I think it's fine right now. We are already strong again, esp. our economy. There's no need to be strong again in the military. We surely could do a lot more - esp. in terms of international engagement - and even more to stand responsible for the things of our past, but IMO the future lies in a greater European cooperation and not again in nationalistic "I go my own way" tendencies. I see some heavy times for the UK following the Brexit, I have fear in mind of the latest developments in Hungary, Poland, the Netherlands and France ... and in Germany I can only hope that these right-wing tendencies will be only a brief episode.

Deino

 

[j20blackdragon]

As such, claims "CHina is already superior in EMALS-technology" are plain stupid and not even anyone in the PLAN says so since they are all fully aware that CHina so far does not have a single operational catapult,

Actually, the PLAN is saying it (or at least implying it). Article from 2015.

http://eng.mod.gov.cn/DefenseNews/2015-03/10/content_4574056.htm

And the PLAN is saying it again.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...-the-us-in-electromagnetic-technology.481861/

Ma Weiming is not some random, irrelevant scientist. Google his name and do some research. I am not here to take sides in this debate. I am simply putting the facts out there.

 

[Deino]

Actually, the PLAN is saying it (or at least implying it). Article from 2015.

http://eng.mod.gov.cn/DefenseNews/2015-03/10/content_4574056.htm

And the PLAN is saying it again.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...-the-us-in-electromagnetic-technology.481861/

Ma Weiming is not some random, irrelevant scientist. Google his name and do some research. I am not here to take sides in this debate. I am simply putting the facts out there.

I know who he is but You seem to misquote him:

Navy expert: China's electromagnetic launch technology no inferior to America

That post does not imply it is better and that the Chinese system; he noted it is not inferior which is a difference.

Also ...

...that China is indisputable tech leader in electromagnetic technology

simply means, the technology is probably more advanced, has a greater potential or reliability in tests, but that does not mean their prototype system is better than an operational system.

Otherwise it is or would be stupid: You simply cannot compare an already established working reliable operational system with a concept and tell that You are already better ! No true scientist or engineer would be that arrogant.

 

[Title123]

Bullshit.

You started it here...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/type...-news-discussions.416166/page-22#post-9271384

I understand that the Chinese member in the admin staff favors his fellow Chinese and that I fully expect to be negatively treated. But this is for the readers out there. It is YOU who made race an issue in this.

I visit this topic for China news but find you idiot mention that waste my time

 

[j20blackdragon]

I know who he is but You seem to misquote him:

That post does not imply it is better and that the Chinese system; he noted it is not inferior which is a difference.

Where is the misquote?

Direct quote from the article:

Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, inventor of China's electromagnetic catapult and specialist in electrical engineering, pointed out that China's catapult-assisted take-off technology for the carrier-borne aircraft has no problem at all and has been proved successful in various repeated tests. He emphasized that China's catapult-assisted take-off technology in hand is no inferior to that of America, and is even more advanced.

http://eng.mod.gov.cn/DefenseNews/2015-03/10/content_4574056.htm

Here's a Chinese language article for extra confirmation. You translate it yourself.

http://news.ifeng.com/a/20150309/43301854_0.shtml

No true scientist or engineer would be that arrogant.

Ma Weiming is a scientist/engineer and he just said it. In fact, he is much more than just a run-of-the-mill scientist. He is considered a national treasure in China. You want to put up your resume against his?

 

[Deino]

....
Ma Weiming is a scientist/engineer and he just said it. In fact, he is much more than just a run-of-the-mill scientist. He is considered a national treasure in China. You want to put up your resume against his?

Not sure why we discuss this at all regardless what he said - esp. since we don't know WHY - and why the news-agency posted this, but when my son comes to me with a brilliant sketch or model of a concept car and tells me he surpassed already technology-wise my own car, he must be WRONG.
As such I can understand his pride and the future prospect that this technology is not behind but still anyway as long there is no Chinese carrier operational with such a system, as long as this has not proven its reliability during years of service even under adverse conditions, as long all that has not happened, all further claims can only be seen as pure hubris.

Again, don't take this as an insult or offence: that test-stand can probably be superior technology-wise but to say Chinese EMALSs IS ALREADY superior - and that's the point; not what WILL or COULD be in a few years - is either naïve, arrogant or stupid and from the talk I know (besides newspaper-propaganda) the person responsible for the development of these systems know that quite well (even if not in the public).

Deino

 

[j20blackdragon]

Not sure why we discuss this at all regardless what he said - esp. since we don't know WHY - and why the news-agency posted this, but when my son comes to me with a brilliant sketch or model of a concept car and tells me he surpassed already technology-wise my own car, he must be WRONG.
As such I can understand his pride and the future prospect that this technology is not behind but still anyway as long there is no Chinese carrier operational with such a system, as long as this has not proven its reliability during years of service even under adverse conditions, as long all that has not happened, all further claims can only be seen as pure hubris.

Again, don't take this as an insult or offence: that test-stand can probably be superior technology-wise but to say Chinese EMALSs IS ALREADY superior - and that's the point; not what WILL or COULD be in a few years - is either naïve, arrogant or stupid and from the talk I know (besides newspaper-propaganda) the person responsible for the development of these systems know that quite well (even if not in the public).

Deino

You posted two paragraphs filled with your opinion only. However, Ma Weiming's direct statements have not been discredited or debunked. The "national-treasure-class" scientist made his statements directly to a reporter. His words were not taken out of context.

 

[Deino]

And if he would say the sky is pink, would you simply believe him without doubt ? Would the sky be pink only due to his statement?

 

[j20blackdragon]

And if he would say the sky is pink, would you simply believe him without doubt ? Would the sky be pink only due to his statement?

The assertion that the sky is pink can be disproven by looking up at the color of the sky. However, Ma Weiming's claim regarding the EMALS cannot be disproven so easily. Therefore, we are still left with the fact that he made the statements. He has never retracted his statements. In fact, he continues to say it again and again.

The burden of proof is on Ma Weiming himself. If you want more information, you should set up an interview with him.

 

[Deino]

The assertion that the sky is pink can be disproven by looking up at the color of the sky. However, Ma Weiming's claim regarding the EMALS cannot be disproven so easily. Therefore, we are still left with the fact that he made the statements. He has never retracted his statements. In fact, he continues to say it again and again.

The burden of proof is on Ma Weiming himself. If you want more information, you should set up an interview with him.

I think I should end this discussion here and we should agree to disagree. IMO the difference is plain and simple our different perception and as such definition on "what is more advanced" ?I ... but I'm sure time will tell.

Deino