Count Down begins for Arrival of the 100th JF17 Thunder

[khanasifm]

https://asianmilitaryreview.com/2017/02/rolling-thunder-jf-17/

 

[ghauri05]

If we play our cards right and bring up the cash, there should be no reason why we can't get them.

And as I said in my previous post, air to air comes into play after you have captured territory. Before that, forget about deep strikes inside India.

And that's the whole point..Pak sucks at diplomacy..trust me if we had done ..or still pursue in right diplomatic efforts we can convince russkies to allow china the sale of j-11..it all depends on your effort...and Pak is really pathetic at these efforts.
As for..Air-to-air is concerned, we need it bcoz this time indians will try to be offensive and enter our territory...so we need to stop them and only way is to shoot them..there is no alternative

 

[rcrmj]

I am expecting an AESA and better avionics on JF-17 very soon!
if Pakistan's economy gets better we have many more deadly stuffs you guys can choose````FC-31's fate is still uncertain to some extent

but my bet is that PAF will have 5th gen fighter earlier than IAF````thats just my bet```

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

or still pursue in right diplomatic efforts we can convince russkies to allow china the sale of j-11..it all depends on your effort...and Pak is really pathetic at these efforts.

You just never know we might have been doing it for the last 2 years or so but Russians seemed reluctant or they might be asking us to buy from them directly. Though Pak-Russia relations has improved a bit but still India does have some influence over them. So to me, Pakistan should vehemently ask China to convince them if we really want their tech in our inventory.

FC-31's fate is still uncertain to some extent

FC-31 needs a foreign backer just like in case of JF-17 to grow. For now, we lack funds but perhaps after 2020 we really may go for it provided our economy goes better. Also after US-India defense pact, Pakistan should look for alternate options for top tier weapons now on wards.

 

[CriticalThought]

...

@Centurion2016
You are very bad at quoting.

Anyway, do a search for Block 52 radar and KLJV2 radar. They are both neck and neck. Mechanical steering actually increases the scan angle and is even used in Gripen.

Your idea of 'world beating' isidplaced. You don't want a 'world beating' platform that wins a paper war, you want a lethal platform that can go head to head against other fighter jets in the world and achieve kills. And Thunder is that platform today. Masha Allah. Alhamdulillah.

And that's the whole point..Pak sucks at diplomacy..trust me if we had done ..or still pursue in right diplomatic efforts we can convince russkies to allow china the sale of j-11..it all depends on your effort...and Pak is really pathetic at these efforts.
As for..Air-to-air is concerned, we need it bcoz this time indians will try to be offensive and enter our territory...so we need to stop them and only way is to shoot them..there is no alternative

Recently the news cropped up that PAF has rejected SU-35 because of no AESA radar. There are definitely efforts going on behind the scenes.

You can shoot the plane down using S-400. With A-100 you can jam them to make them ineffective as well. It is a lethal combination.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Instead of making a whole new plane as block 3 why not we first update our block 2s into block 3 standards by having AESA radars,turkish pods,HMDs etc over them. Quality should always have preference over quantity.

 

[Baby Leone]

just wondering that its a joint production between Pakistan & China. How many JF 17 China is using?

 

[ghauri05]

You just never know we might have been doing it for the last 2 years or so but Russians seemed reluctant or they might be asking us to buy from them directly. Though Pak-Russia relations has improved a bit but still India does have some influence over them. So to me, Pakistan should vehemently ask China to convince them if we really want their tech in our inventory.

how can u leave china out of such effort....to convince russia...if Pak hasn't involved china yet..then i deem it as a stupid move.
but as we know there is still some influence of india over russia....how can we buy directly from russia?

@Centurion2016
You are very bad at quoting.

Anyway, do a search for Block 52 radar and KLJV2 radar. They are both neck and neck. Mechanical steering actually increases the scan angle and is even used in Gripen.

Your idea of 'world beating' isidplaced. You don't want a 'world beating' platform that wins a paper war, you want a lethal platform that can go head to head against other fighter jets in the world and achieve kills. And Thunder is that platform today. Masha Allah. Alhamdulillah.



Recently the news cropped up that PAF has rejected SU-35 because of no AESA radar. There are definitely efforts going on behind the scenes.

You can shoot the plane down using S-400. With A-100 you can jam them to make them ineffective as well. It is a lethal combination.

I know they can..but do u think..is it a reliable idea to put all your hopes on SAM system in modern netcentric warfare???

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

how can we buy directly from russia?

just like we bought Mi-35s from them

 

[Mav3rick]

You have gotten from MNNA only that which foreign powers wanted to give you. Now whether it was achieved by them creating hurdles, or through collusion of our own officials, is debatable. But you could not have gotten more even if you wanted to. Sit back and think. The America who is backing the potty mouthed diatribe of its two darlings India and Afghanistan, the Australia that is providing nuclear fuel to India while completely shutting its eyes to India's blatant disregard of any limits to nuclear accretion, the France that is providing nuclear submarines, were they ever going to do a good turn to us? The great game is only now unfolding and even then we are blind to its aims and objectives. I'll make a very controversial statement: it was in Pakistan's best interests if America remained involved in Syria forever. Now that Syria is getting wrapped up, America is shifting its full focus to Afghanistan. Long story short, you could not have, and you will not, get any meaningful weapons from Western countries. Hats off to PAF for negotiating with Italy, Spain and Britain. They have been working under severe limitations to bring this nations the best they could achieve.

As I said earlier, in 2003/4, things were very different. It may be tough for us to do a lot of things today, but back in those days, we had access to some of the best equipment that money could buy. Sure, America has been backing the spawn of Satan for the past couple of years but that was nowhere close in 2003/4. Even NSG waivers were granted to India just a few years back.

French would provide those same, or better, Nuclear Submarines to us if we have money to buy them, the French were selling to us even when the US was not. The Swedes, Germans, Ukraine etc. are all the same. And now, perhaps in a very very long time, Russia too is opening to us, we need to grab all opportunities available to us. We also need to offer military security to the Saudi's for disproportionate financial return.

As per your opinion, long term US engagement in Syria was good for Pakistan, I do not agree with that. Afghanistan has been a graveyard for Super Powers; let it devour another Super Power. Besides, if we play our cards right, Afghanistan can be very beneficial to us. Peace in Afghanistan is paramount to our security and stability, it has to be ensured at any cost.

We could, and we did. You are seeing the result. If you think you could pump 3.5 billion dollars in 2004 - and please remember the state of Pakistan's industrial maturity in 2004 - and 15 years later have a 4.5 gen fighter ready to take over the world, then unfortunately you are severely mistaken. Sit, and think on just one aspect: the jet engine. Which country would be agreeable to let you use their jet engine? The real world gave us its answer in the form of RD-93. That's it. That's all you could get. Come down from cloud 9 and face the reality. This is all we were always going to get. It doesn't get any better than this.

We invested like USD 500 million and JF-17 was born. Imagine what could have been achieved had we invested USD 3.5 Billion in the JF-17 program or if we had split the amount amongst a fighter Jet program, a UCAV and a Nuclear submarine program. We we actually quite well off in 2003/4 as compared to now, we were getting rid of IMF conditions and loans and we had money pouring in from US and Saudi Arabia.

At that time, we could have procured Jet engines from Britain or Europe. We could have made the procurement from the US too but I wouldn't want any interaction with an unreliable partner. Even today, we can get a much better engine from Russia.

Who says we want to keep only 70 odd Vipers? We want more. And we want other aircraft as well.

And they aren't "70 odd" Vipers today. They have been MLUed from Turkey, we have acquired indigenous capability to maintain them, and funnily enough, we learnt recently that AGM-65 has been integrated on Thunder.

Now this is what I do not understand, the undying love for a platform, excellent as it may be, which is inherently doomed depending upon our Topsy turvy relations with the supplier. And what happens when India decides to acquire Block 70+ of F-16's and we are still looking for 2nd/3rd hand MLU units???

The point being?

It was a response to your claim that a detailed list of equipment that was purchased with the F-16's was not public knowledge, I countered that it was.

It's OK to level constructive criticism on the forces. Constructive criticism is the lifeblood of any forward thinking, progressive nation. The forces are manned by humans like us. They make mistakes. As long as we learn from them we should be OK.

Our lack of expertise in electronics today is a blunder of the same magnitude, as it would be if we hadn't started our nuclear programme in the 1970s. Or if we didn't have POF and HIT today. None of this has private involement at a large scale right? I mean, individual companies supply parts, but the overall initiative is that of the armed forces. We needed a similar initiative in the realm of electronics and radar. Today it is limiting our forces in a manner that cannot be quantified.

And we can't even say that today's situation is because of lack of vision. People like Ghulam Ishaque Khan, Agha Hasan Abidi were true visionaries. IF, GIKI had been supported and continued towards the original aims envisioned by GIK, we would have been an advanced industrialized nation today. It was absolute treason of the highest order to let GIKI become just one more useless university. I want to cry as I write this.

Agreed. There have been many, many missed opportunities, some could even be labeled 'criminal negligence'. The best we can do, when down, is to get up, rub off the dirt and just continue.

I don't think you got me correctly. I am saying PAF should buy these aircraft. Our pilots are creative enough to learn the platform thoroughly in a few years.

I did get it, what I mean is we don't really need to buy these diverse platforms when we have access to them through our friendly countries. I mean even IAF has access to Block-52+ of Singapore Air Force which are based in India.

Nothing should be ruled out. PAF people are smart enough to realize the threats they are facing and what steps they need to take to neutralize them.

Perhaps. However, what I have always found is that we are capable of looking at our problems so intensely that we can overlook the simplest of solutions. This is precisely why we need an external set of eyes, to look at those problems and find a solution outside the box. This is what military & private consortium are meant to achieve......that and financial stability in both sectors.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

IMHO, need to focus on the following: AESA Radar, composites to bring the airframe weight down, HMCS, more powerful engine to enhance perfromance, look for incountry powerplant assembly and overhaul, and full fly-by-wire capability to reduce pilot fatigue under high G manouvers.

 

[CriticalThought]

I know they can..but do u think..is it a reliable idea to put all your hopes on SAM system in modern netcentric warfare???

There are two theatres of concern: land and sea.

For both Eastern and Western flanks, ramping up Thunder production, plus limited SU-35s, plus A-100 and S-400 would make as formidable. A force to be reckoned with.

For the naval theatre, 2-3 squadrons of SU-35s would allow us to project power deep into the Arabian sea. This needs to be paired with better SAM coverage for our naval assets. Also, we will need AEWACS like A-100 for the naval theatre as well.

Unfortunately, available funds do not allow for this to happen. So my approximation is:

1. Ramp up production of Thunder. Involve Saudi by setting up manufacturing there in addition to PAC.
2. Limited numbers of SU-35s with AESA radars.
3. A-100, at least 1.
4. S-400 at least 2 systems.

 

[Falcon26]

There are two theatres of concern: land and sea.

For both Eastern and Western flanks, ramping up Thunder production, plus limited SU-35s, plus A-100 and S-400 would make as formidable. A force to be reckoned with.

For the naval theatre, 2-3 squadrons of SU-35s would allow us to project power deep into the Arabian sea. This needs to be paired with better SAM coverage for our naval assets. Also, we will need AEWACS like A-100 for the naval theatre as well.

Unfortunately, available funds do not allow for this to happen. So my approximation is:

1. Ramp up production of Thunder. Involve Saudi by setting up manufacturing there in addition to PAC.
2. Limited numbers of SU-35s with AESA radars.
3. A-100, at least 1.
4. S-400 at least 2 systems.

What advantages will A-100 bring that you currently don’t have with the Erieyes?

 

[CriticalThought]

What advantages will A-100 bring that you currently don’t have with the Erieyes?

1.Its precursor A-50U is battle tested in Syria.

2. Range of 600+ km. With Network Centric usage, it's utility will increase exponentially.

3. Combines radar with EW. It will be a better jammer because it's large size means more available power.

 

[ghauri05]

just like we bought Mi-35s from them

But fighters are big ticket tems with atleast 2-3 squardons..not only 4

There are two theatres of concern: land and sea.

For both Eastern and Western flanks, ramping up Thunder production, plus limited SU-35s, plus A-100 and S-400 would make as formidable. A force to be reckoned with.

For the naval theatre, 2-3 squadrons of SU-35s would allow us to project power deep into the Arabian sea. This needs to be paired with better SAM coverage for our naval assets. Also, we will need AEWACS like A-100 for the naval theatre as well.

Unfortunately, available funds do not allow for this to happen. So my approximation is:

1. Ramp up production of Thunder. Involve Saudi by setting up manufacturing there in addition to PAC.
2. Limited numbers of SU-35s with AESA radars.
3. A-100, at least 1.
4. S-400 at least 2 systems.

how much effective coverage we will get with only 2 S-400..and how many missiles 1 system carries?