Count Down begins for Arrival of the 100th JF17 Thunder

[fitpOsitive]

The JF17 Approaches the 100 Fighter Jet Mark , after a modest start to it's history
The PAF inducted its first JF-17 squadron in February 2010

Seven Years have passed and now the JF17 Thunder is safely safe guarding Pakistani Skies from Evil Doers.

Having not only impressed with it's performance in Pakistan , the JF17 Program hit a major mile stone by securing contracts with International Parterns world wide Client in Asia East , Africa (Nigeria) and Central Europe (Azerbijan). The success of JF17 Program mean the Jets are viewed as capable platform which offers tones of flexibility and meaningful defence of skies over Sovreign nations of all size.

New Mile stones were hit in 2017 with Arrival of Duel Seating JF17 Thunder which ensured a high degree of capablity to train and also carry out more advance missions

The Thunders have proven to be the Shinning example of forward thinking by planners and various analyst how to safe guard Pakistan's Airspace , from Enemies and Intruders. Due to the Thinking and planning done 20 years ago today we bear the fruits of that by being in advance stages of yet another mile stone in JF17 successful story

The Thunder has now impressed every one on global scale , and how a Nation like Pakistan can manufacture a product of such high quality with Chinese Collaboration. Able to meet the world standard in Fighter Jet manufacturing and Air defence

The Thunder also recieved a wonderful enhancement with the "Turkish Sniper Pods" giving the Thunders valueable vision and precision from skies even able to spot a cat or dog walking in the streets of a crowded place

Limitation on the JF17 THUNDER are only in our imagination, and the Thunder will continue to evolve based on the imagination of our Engineers and planners.

Not to forget the Block 3 Thunder will be Used by Ellite Academy armed with High Visualization and Enhanced , visual display and awareness Helmets. The Introduction of such Technology Gambits will ensure our Pilots are able to Maintain a high Kill Ratio

Whistleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

 

[Eagle_storm]

I personally like jets, but have less knowledge as compare to others,
i remember two time i was entered to PAF base,location unknown
SSG were looking beautiful.

 

[volatile]

I beg to differ specially the engine part ,strucute wise we have some experience due to US stoppage of critical supplies in mid 90`s similarly for engine as well but to call it rebuilding facility its a far cry . I must say keeping jets in flyworthy condition is some thing else and regenerate many components is another .e.g Mirage rebuild factory is doing what the OEM was doing and they are making the bird as OEM standard .

Actually,not everything is advertised. Recently, there were pics shared on the forum about Turkish forms running courses at PAC for F-16 maintenance. Similarly, pics were shared of F-16s refurbished within Pakistan. And PAC has been overhauling F-16 engines since ages.

 

[Mav3rick]

If, in 2005 PAF announced that they are going to spend 3.5 billion USD on Thunder, there would have been an almighty uproar and possibly you could have been one of the people raising hue and cry.

Today, I believe we should be ramping up production of Thunder. And here is how. Secure an economic zone in Saudi and set up the factory there. It can supply both export orders and PAF needs. And the good thing would be redundancy. In case of war, India cannot target factories inside Saudi or UAE.

@Khafee @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

I think we would have posts from 2005, you may as well read up on my comments back then and tell me if I have changed my mind.

I learnt my lesson from Pressler Amendment, I learnt a very long time ago that the US is not only an unworthy and untrustworthy partner, I also learnt that it sheds it's friends and allies like hot rock when it suits it's policies.

True but that's a hindsight.... however I hope, now the road to foreign fighter planes is sealed for good.

Please read my post above.

 

[danger007]

Okay 250 su-30 mki and 50 rafale and much more.
But thats not the real point. There is difference between buying and developing air craft. Any country can buy leading air craft if they can afford like Dubai,Qatar,Saudia Arabia. But none of them manufacture jets.

There nothing to feel proud buying jets.
But induction of 100 jets homemade jets is huge boost to PAC which is something to be proud of.


Respected Sir,
IAF might be getting advance aircraft.
But there is difference between buying and manufacturing them.
We are happy because it is huge achievement for PAC.
Furthermore, I think looking at the circumstance in 2005 when Pakistan purchased 2 squadron of f-16
its was the best decision under the circumstances because Pakistan required urgent need of Capable jet.Pakistan could not put all of his money in research and development which will further delay jf-17 production.
If pakistan did it in 2005 than today we might me enjoying 1st squadron of jf-17.

Meanwhile, progress of jf-17 programme is going in right direction. Upcoming variants will fill the gap.

One more thing, Kids of today will be Man of tomorrow.

Thread is about JF-17 so stick to the topic... By the way it is JV ..

 

[Mav3rick]

Respected Sir,
IAF might be getting advance aircraft.
But there is difference between buying and manufacturing them.
We are happy because it is huge achievement for PAC.
Furthermore, I think looking at the circumstance in 2005 when Pakistan purchased 2 squadron of f-16
its was the best decision under the circumstances because Pakistan required urgent need of Capable jet.Pakistan could not put all of his money in research and development which will further delay jf-17 production.
If pakistan did it in 2005 than today we might me enjoying 1st squadron of jf-17.

Meanwhile, progress of jf-17 programme is going in right direction. Upcoming variants will fill the gap.

One more thing, Kids of today will be Man of tomorrow.

My friend, for starters, please read my post above.

And then, please recall Kargil and 2002 (Indian parliament attacks). In the former, India employed 35k military and almost 10 squadrons of IAF to combat roughly 4-5k lightly armed non-regulars and in the later they amassed almost a million troops at our border..........both times, they dared not cross an inch of the border!!

What that tells you is that India is smart, it is smart because it knows that a war with Pakistan will not be in her favour, that if she even wins a military war, she may never completely recover from the effects of such a war (strictly non-nuclear effects). Now, from 1999 to 2002 and then to 2005, there was no imminent danger, we could just as easily have invested in JF-17 especially since the F-16's too took years to be delivered.

Today, JF-17 should have had a better engine, seriously advanced avionics and sensors package, extremely lethal weapons load and potential to take on the best of the best 4.5 gen aggressor in the air with a 50:50 chance.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I recall the first time when I heard about the JF17 Program it was quite a ambitious program and goal. I was quite keen to see how will PAKISTAN coup with rigorous requirement of developing a fully functional Fighter Jet with collaboration with China.

Because prior to it's conception we only had moderate success with the Super Mushhaq and K-8 platform which our engineers were gradually mastering. The Mirage program for modernization was under the table and no one quite understool the level of workmanship we were doing under the hood with Mirage.

So almost every one was suprised that we managed to come up with the first prototye flying so quickly and that platform was quickly moved into Serial Production after 2-3 years of refinement and adjustments

The AL Khalid Tank's successful launch from Pakistani manufacturing facilities was also a feat we achieved but it was a different beast compared to making a fully functional complex machine like JF17 Thunder which took the best elements of the F16 the agility and dependability and then incorporated more advance Avionics package and faster of every thing you can imagine.

Even today Next generation Avionics package is due with Block 3 Thunder and with even more technological advancement planned with Arrival of Enhanced engine and Weapons selection mode.

Earlier this year 2017 We did saw the lauch of 2 Seat JF17 Thunder

The 2 Seat Varient certainly enhances our functional capabilities in Air as the 2 Pilot Solution allows the second officer at back to engage ground targets and help the main pilot with input coming in from various system for more complex operation in Air.

Also the 2 Seater versions enable the Ace pilots to take their collegues up in air and give them active lessons for training purpose and share valuable skill and knowledge

Another less mentioned fact about the JF17 Thunder is the constant presence in World Aviation Shows

• France (Europe)
  
• UK (Europe)
• Turkey (Euro-Asia)
  
• China (Asia)
  
• UAE (Asia)

• Pakistan (Asia )

KAMRA Aviation , was making a name for itself being present in Prominent shows and all the efforts and planning resulted in Inital orders for the Thunder with external clients

Another honor went Thunder's way when it escorted the Plane for Chinese Head of state
The picture really summerized how far the JF17 Thunder program has come !!!!

A testiment to Pakistan - Chinese , collaboration between two neighbouring countries
And surely shows what a Promominent role the Thunders perform on a Day to Day

This did not happen in a day it took lot of planning and alot of dedicated people some of whome may have dedicated best part of their lives to help bring the Thunder from conceptual design to reality

That is why the 100th makes it all more special !!! We have finally arrived at the door step of a small mile stone

 

[CriticalThought]

Today, JF-17 should have had a better engine, seriously advanced avionics and sensors package, extremely lethal weapons load and potential to take on the best of the best 4.5 gen aggressor in the air with a 50:50 chance.

Your aims are commendable but unrealistic. That's because you are denied cutting edge technology by almost all advanced countries, not just the Americans.

What we don't realize about the F-16 is the amazing amount of R&D invested by US to make it top of its class. The Block 50+ are a very potent counter to SU-30s. The Yankees go to extreme lengths to test their entire platforms against enemy systems and make sure they actually work. And they gave this to us at throw away prices. You probably don't have ANY idea what we obtained from US. No one who actually knows what they are talking about will criticize the decision of investing in F-16.

Now, about making Thunder potent. The Americans aren't going to sell you anything. The French won't either. And the Italians etc will refuse to provide the info to integrate with Chinese systems. PAF has to fight an uphill battle for every piece of technology.

If you want to criticize, you can criticize our three service branches army, Navy, air force for not acquiring expertise in designing, developing, and manufacturing electronics and radar equipment in 70 years of our existence. As a matter of fact, you can criticize all governments as well.

At this point, the judicious use of funds is as follows. We need to test Thunder against Indian platforms in realistic environments. The most ideal case is having access to a handful of systems in PAF inventory. Towards this aim, PAF is actively looking at SU-35. Even if we acquire 4 planes with latest radar and weapons, it is enough. Similarly, if just 4 of Qatar's Rafales can be provided to us, that should be enough. PAF can then hone Thunder with the full confidence that it can counter Indian threats.

And, for Block 4, they should be looking at modifying the airframe for stealth. For the rest, it makes perfect sense to simply keep following the technology curve of MIG for engines.

 

[GeraltofRivia]

Congratulation to Pakistan for this milestone. There are very few countries in the world have the engineering capability to manufacture jet fighter. To me, the success of Thunder program also contributes to an approach of setting realistic goals, achieving them, and making continuous improvement.

 

[-angRyPlayeR]

Your aims are commendable but unrealistic. That's because you are denied cutting edge technology by almost all advanced countries, not just the Americans.

What we don't realize about the F-16 is the amazing amount of R&D invested by US to make it top of its class. The Block 50+ are a very potent counter to SU-30s. The Yankees go to extreme lengths to test their entire platforms against enemy systems and make sure they actually work. And they gave this to us at throw away prices. You probably don't have ANY idea what we obtained from US. No one who actually knows what they are talking about will criticize the decision of investing in F-16.

Now, about making Thunder potent. The Americans aren't going to sell you anything. The French won't either. And the Italians etc will refuse to provide the info to integrate with Chinese systems. PAF has to fight an uphill battle for every piece of technology.

If you want to criticize, you can criticize our three service branches army, Navy, air force for not acquiring expertise in designing, developing, and manufacturing electronics and radar equipment in 70 years of our existence. As a matter of fact, you can criticize all governments as well.

At this point, the judicious use of funds is as follows. We need to test Thunder against Indian platforms in realistic environments. The most ideal case is having access to a handful of systems in PAF inventory. Towards this aim, PAF is actively looking at SU-35. Even if we acquire 4 planes with latest radar and weapons, it is enough. Similarly, if just 4 of Qatar's Rafales can be provided to us, that should be enough. PAF can then hone Thunder with the full confidence that it can counter Indian threats.

And, for Block 4, they should be looking at modifying the airframe for stealth. For the rest, it makes perfect sense to simply keep following the technology curve of MIG for engines.

I think its not right to criticize Pak military or air force for noy developing advance avionics and jet engine.
But to private sector Lockheed Martin or General Electronics are private companies which build avionics or jet for US army. Same is the case with other advance fighters.
Developing weapons for army is primarily role of private sector.

But private sector have no interest in manufacturing avionics because its very costly to obtain and gamble to invest in.

Under the circumstances PAC is only industry under Government which manufactures jets for Pakistan.

No other airforce does that.

I think thats a great job from our Strategic Forces.

 

[Mrc]

All eyes on project azm... 5th gen + fighter hopefully soon

 

[Mav3rick]

Your aims are commendable but unrealistic. That's because you are denied cutting edge technology by almost all advanced countries, not just the Americans.

Ever since we were presented the "dishonor" of MNNA (Major Non-NATO Ally) in 2003/04, we had the options to engage any and every vendor out there. We could have courted the French, flirted with the Swedes, enticed the British and engaged with most of the hardcore vendors for ToT on AESA Radars, commonality of interface and sensor fusion with the entire war network; we had the world within our grasp and we let it all slip away because of our fetish for some sanction prone F-16's!! Treasonous love affair I say.

What we don't realize about the F-16 is the amazing amount of R&D invested by US to make it top of its class. The Block 50+ are a very potent counter to SU-30s. The Yankees go to extreme lengths to test their entire platforms against enemy systems and make sure they actually work. And they gave this to us at throw away prices. You probably don't have ANY idea what we obtained from US. No one who actually knows what they are talking about will criticize the decision of investing in F-16.

What we realize is a step ahead of your realization. That the F-16 turned out to be the beast it is because of investment from dozens of countries who purchased the basic version of that platform. Thousands of F-16's have been produced so far in the 50-60 odd years, their initial R&D aside, most of the remaining R&D along with Billions in profit were all made possible because USA decided to invest in its own capabilities and abilities. We could have started on that path in 2003/4 but what of the F-16 fetish!!

F-16's are a potent counter to SU-30MKI's you say, perhaps they are. But are 70 odd sanction prone F-16's of various blocks enough to take on 272 Super MKI's???? NO!!, they are NOT!

And we are well aware of what we received for the 3.5 Billion USD! It is because the entire work order has to be approved from the US Senate, which is a public affair. The entire world know's exactly what we received, the quantity, the versions...hell they may well be aware of the serial numbers.

Now, about making Thunder potent. The Americans aren't going to sell you anything. The French won't either. And the Italians etc will refuse to provide the info to integrate with Chinese systems. PAF has to fight an uphill battle for every piece of technology.

If you want to criticize, you can criticize our three service branches army, Navy, air force for not acquiring expertise in designing, developing, and manufacturing electronics and radar equipment in 70 years of our existence. As a matter of fact, you can criticize all governments as well.

Today, it is another ball game altogether. But 2003/4 was a different story. Today, the Chinese may possibly be where the US was 30-35 years ago in terms of engines and 15-20 years ago in terms of avionics, sensors and radars. I have read that the Chinese did not accede to Russian requests for joint development of a 5th Gen fighter platform because the Chinese believe that their technology on 5th Gen is superior to what Russians have so far. So we have the Chinese and the Russians whom we can approach for our defense needs.

I cannot criticize the forces enough. But I may not be fair in that criticism as my opinions are based on the level of information that I have. The Army is evidently quite self sufficient, it is the Naval and Aerial branches that have been unable to develop self sufficiency, understandably because their share of funds is nothing compared to that of the Army.

What I would like to see is a lot of private and commercial involvement in development of next gen weapon systems. The military cannot do everything on its own; US model is perfect, they have commercialized the R&D of warfare which has yielded dividends that the US has reaped over the decades. It is time other countries adopted the same.

At this point, the judicious use of funds is as follows. We need to test Thunder against Indian platforms in realistic environments. The most ideal case is having access to a handful of systems in PAF inventory. Towards this aim, PAF is actively looking at SU-35. Even if we acquire 4 planes with latest radar and weapons, it is enough. Similarly, if just 4 of Qatar's Rafales can be provided to us, that should be enough. PAF can then hone Thunder with the full confidence that it can counter Indian threats.

That is a good start. But we need to acknowledge that IAF pilots are a generation better than any Qatari pilot. And IAF has had decades of practice on the SU systems, they know it's strengths and weaknesses just as we do of the F-16 Platform. What we need is regular, frequent and lengthy engagements, detailed counter plans and appropriate platform development to counter what IAF will have in the next 10-20 years.

And, for Block 4, they should be looking at modifying the airframe for stealth. For the rest, it makes perfect sense to simply keep following the technology curve of MIG for engines.

Stealth, they have ruled out. Stealthier can probably be accommodated if the JF carries its weapons internally but may require radical redesigning of the air frame. Stealth, or a level of it can also be achieved the way Rafael does it, with it's sensors that deny the enemy to achieve a lock on it. Basically, Rafael's systems fool the adversary into believing that it is just not present.

 

[Rank]

eek he jahaz ko jaazzz bananay ke koshish kar rahay hain sab kuch use may dali ja rahe hey phat phut jayega end may yeh lol

 

[MastanKhan]

Ever since we were presented the "dishonor" of MNNA (Major Non-NATO Ally) in 2003/04, we had the options to engage any and every vendor out there. We could have courted the French, flirted with the Swedes, enticed the British and engaged with most of the hardcore vendors for ToT on AESA Radars, commonality of interface and sensor fusion with the entire war network; we had the world within our grasp and we let it all slip away because of our fetish for some sanction prone F-16's!! Treasonous love affair I say.





What we realize is a step ahead of your realization. That the F-16 turned out to be the beast it is because of investment from dozens of countries who purchased the basic version of that platform. Thousands of F-16's have been produced so far in the 50-60 odd years, their initial R&D aside, most of the remaining R&D along with Billions in profit were all made possible because USA decided to invest in its own capabilities and abilities. We could have started on that path in 2003/4 but what of the F-16 fetish!!

F-16's are a potent counter to SU-30MKI's you say, perhaps they are. But are 70 odd sanction prone F-16's of various blocks enough to take on 272 Super MKI's???? NO!!, they are NOT!

And we are well aware of what we received for the 3.5 Billion USD! It is because the entire work order has to be approved from the US Senate, which is a public affair. The entire world know's exactly what we received, the quantity, the versions...hell they may well be aware of the serial numbers.





Today, it is another ball game altogether. But 2003/4 was a different story. Today, the Chinese may possibly be where the US was 30-35 years ago in terms of engines and 15-20 years ago in terms of avionics, sensors and radars. I have read that the Chinese did not accede to Russian requests for joint development of a 5th Gen fighter platform because the Chinese believe that their technology on 5th Gen is superior to what Russians have so far. So we have the Chinese and the Russians whom we can approach for our defense needs.

I cannot criticize the forces enough. But I may not be fair in that criticism as my opinions are based on the level of information that I have. The Army is evidently quite self sufficient, it is the Naval and Aerial branches that have been unable to develop self sufficiency, understandably because their share of funds is nothing compared to that of the Army.

What I would like to see is a lot of private and commercial involvement in development of next gen weapon systems. The military cannot do everything on its own; US model is perfect, they have commercialized the R&D of warfare which has yielded dividends that the US has reaped over the decades. It is time other countries adopted the same.





That is a good start. But we need to acknowledge that IAF pilots are a generation better than any Qatari pilot. And IAF has had decades of practice on the SU systems, they know it's strengths and weaknesses just as we do of the F-16 Platform. What we need is regular, frequent and lengthy engagements, detailed counter plans and appropriate platform development to counter what IAF will have in the next 10-20 years.





Stealth, they have ruled out. Stealthier can probably be accommodated if the JF carries its weapons internally but may require radical redesigning of the air frame. Stealth, or a level of it can also be achieved the way Rafael does it, with it's sensors that deny the enemy to achieve a lock on it. Basically, Rafael's systems fool the adversary into believing that it is just not present.

Hi,

Thank you---an excellent post---.

The engine technology gap and EW suite gap is not static---but it is converging---. For every calender year that goes by---the gap narrows down by 2 to 5 years---.

In the next 5 years---the EW suite would be some 1 to 2 years behind---and the engine would be around 10 years behind---it is like you are at the base of the spear tip and moving forward---.

The EW breakthrough would not become known just like that---. The engine once it gets closer---the news would be formidable.

I personally like jets, but have less knowledge as compare to others,
i remember two time i was entered to PAF base,location unknown
SSG were looking beautiful.

Son,

You have a problem with language as well---. women look beautiful---warriors look nasty mean and destructively badass---. Thank you.

I think its not right to criticize Pak military or air force for noy developing advance avionics and jet engine.
But to private sector Lockheed Martin or General Electronics are private companies which build avionics or jet for US army. Same is the case with other advance fighters.
Developing weapons for army is primarily role of private sector.

But private sector have no interest in manufacturing avionics because its very costly to obtain and gamble to invest in.

Under the circumstances PAC is only industry under Government which manufactures jets for Pakistan.

No other airforce does that.

I think thats a great job from our Strategic Forces.

Paf will sabotage every private sector major major development---. Paf wants to dictate the terms.

Okay 250 su-30 mki and 50 rafale and much more.
But thats not the real point. There is difference between buying and developing air craft. Any country can buy leading air craft if they can afford like Dubai,Qatar,Saudia Arabia. But none of them manufacture jets.

Hi,

What a piece of sh-it post---and why not---it is from a 20 years old know all pakistani kid.

You are not a father yet---when you are---and you have a little baby daughter---and she is dying of pneumonia---you would careless where the medicine is made in---you would want it to be available and given to your child---.

That is how nations are----they don't give a sh-it who builds the aircraft or who does not---.

The nations says---go get the fcking aircraft from wherever you can and fight to protect me.

The bullet in the criminals gun blows the brains of a victim regardless of its origin.

 

[-angRyPlayeR]

Hi,

Thank you---an excellent post---.

The engine technology gap and EW suite gap is not static---but it is converging---. For every calender year that goes by---the gap narrows down by 2 to 5 years---.

In the next 5 years---the EW suite would be some 1 to 2 years behind---and the engine would be around 10 years behind---it is like you are at the base of the spear tip and moving forward---.

The EW breakthrough would not become known just like that---. The engine once it gets closer---the news would be formidable.



Son,

You have a problem with language as well---. women look beautiful---warriors look nasty mean and destructively badass---. Thank you.



Paf will sabotage every private sector major major development---. Paf wants to dictate the terms.



Hi,

What a piece of sh-it post---and why not---it is from a 20 years old know all pakistani kid.

You are not a father yet---when you are---and you have a little baby daughter---and she is dying of pneumonia---you would careless where the medicine is made in---you would want it to be available and given to your child---.

That is how nations are----they don't give a sh-it who builds the aircraft or who does not---.

The nations says---go get the fcking aircraft from wherever you can and fight to protect me.

The bullet in the criminals gun blows the brains of a victim regardless of its origin.

I respect your seniority,
But i doesn't give to right to mock other on bases of their age.

Did i ever said SU-30 mki is worse than a JF.

All I said is induction of 100th jet is a proud moment.

Yes, You rightly said if my daughter will be ill , I have to buy medicine for her but its not locally produced. I will definitely import it. But You know what is more proud moment when that rare and special Medicine is made in Pakistan and other imports it thats a Proud moment.

Same is the case with JF-17.

You truely said "The bullet in the criminals gun blows the brains of a victim regardless of its origin" but i will be more Proud when our locally manufacture bullet will gun blows the brains of a victim regardless of its origin.

This form is for dicussion.Not for telling other that you are young and mocking them.

Everyone has its own opinion and you should respect it.