Count Down begins for Arrival of the 100th JF17 Thunder

[Mav3rick]

Thread about JF-17, stay on topic.. IAF got 200+ mki not few dozen besides that m2k and mig- 29... Do little research before commenting.. and Rafale : it is only initial order, there will be more follow on orders..

Please let the kid enjoy as he is happy with what PAF will have in a few years whereas he completely ignores that 270 IAF SU-30MKI will be Super MKI, 36 Rafael will become 72 or more, there will be dozens of Tejas and possibly advanced version of Gripen, F-16, F-35 or SU-35 etc.

And while my countrymen rejoice on the 100th JF-17, I mourn the lost opportunities, the 3.5 Billion USD spent on 2 squadrons of F-16's in 2005 which could have done wonders for JF-17, to the point of making the JF better than block 60 of F-16's and so on....

 

[CriticalThought]

Please let the kid enjoy as he is happy with what PAF will have in a few years whereas he completely ignores that 270 IAF SU-30MKI will be Super MKI, 36 Rafael will become 72 or more, there will be dozens of Tejas and possibly advanced version of Gripen, F-16, F-35 or SU-35 etc.

And while my countrymen rejoice on the 100th JF-17, I mourn the lost opportunities, the 3.5 Billion USD spent on 2 squadrons of F-16's in 2005 which could have done wonders for JF-17, to the point of making the JF better than block 60 of F-16's and so on....

If, in 2005 PAF announced that they are going to spend 3.5 billion USD on Thunder, there would have been an almighty uproar and possibly you could have been one of the people raising hue and cry.

Today, I believe we should be ramping up production of Thunder. And here is how. Secure an economic zone in Saudi and set up the factory there. It can supply both export orders and PAF needs. And the good thing would be redundancy. In case of war, India cannot target factories inside Saudi or UAE.

@Khafee @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[BATMAN]

I mourn the lost opportunities, the 3.5 Billion USD spent on 2 squadrons of F-16's in 2005 which could have done wonders for JF-17, to the point of making the JF better than block 60 of F-16's and so on....

True but that's a hindsight.... however I hope, now the road to foreign fighter planes is sealed for good.

 

[New World]

oday, I believe we should be ramping up production of Thunder. And here is how. Secure an economic zone in Saudi and set up the factory there. It can supply both export orders and PAF needs. And the good thing would be redundancy. In case of war, India cannot target factories inside Saudi or UAE.

it means that we should seal PAC here in Kamra?

do you know how much it will cost to set up a factory in KSA, and move all machinery and secrets to another country..

 

[CriticalThought]

it means that we should seal PAC here in Kamra?

do you know how much it will cost to set up a factory in KSA, and move all machinery and secrets to another country..

You basically need to re-read my post to understand what I am saying.

And oh, the cost should be much less than 3.5 billion USD, especially if JV is involved.

 

[New World]

You basically need to re-read my post to understand what I am saying.

And oh, the cost should be much less than 3.5 billion USD, especially if JV is involved.

there is already a JV between Pak-China..

as for 2005, in that time JF-17 program was subjected to shutdown as at that time Mushy and PAF chief was convinced that there will not be any sanctions again on Pakistan as they were happy with F-16 and with their commissions.. but thanks to GOD that JF-17 program survived mainly because JF-17 was being made in China and Chinese continue that program...

1990 and 2000 are being called as lost decades of PAF. because in 1990 they cancelled a done deal of advanced Mirage 2000. and in 2000 they chooses what they already have(18 F-16). against Rafale, EFT and Gripen and excuse for rejecting these aircraft was that these aircraft are too advanced for PAF.

 

[airmarshal]

JF-17 is a product of US sanction. This shows that sanctions actually work!

 

[CriticalThought]

there is already a JV between Pak-China..

as for 2005, in that time JF-17 program was subjected to shutdown as at that time Mushy and PAF chief was convinced that there will not be any sanctions again on Pakistan as they were happy with F-16 and with their commissions.. but thanks to GOD that JF-17 program survived mainly because JF-17 was being made in China and Chinese continue that program...

1990 and 2000 are being called as lost decades of PAF. because in 1990 they cancelled a done deal of advanced Mirage 2000. and in 2000 they chooses what they already have(18 F-16). against Rafale, EFT and Gripen and excuse for rejecting these aircraft was that these aircraft are too advanced for PAF.

And the result if Chinese JV doesn't provide enough redundancy. PAC should open another factory in Saudi.

The Thunder went through 6 prototypes, with extensive inputs from PAF pilots thoroughly early to mid 2000. I don't believe in conspiracy theories.

The capital spent on operationalizing M2Ks could have made Thunder infeasible. At this point it is very hard to determine.

Thunder is a direct competitor of Gripen. No need to acquire the same platform twice.

Rafale, when it was offered had serious technical issues, due to which it was rejected. Also, Dassault could involve us on very expensive game if selling one solution to us, its counter to India, so on and so forth.

The EFT, till early 2000s, was an air superiority fighter. This is NOT what PAF required. Possibly this is the root of the perception that it was rejected for being 'too advanced'.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If Kamra Expands , into a new facility in different city it will certainly enhance our monthly capabilities to manufacture and export the fighter jets to external client

The Thunder can quickly be enhanced into a near Air Superiority fighter with CFT addition which should free up 2 extra missile hardpoints

The call to modernize the F16 C/D was necessary step to extend the life of F16 and which played a vital role against ground operation against Terrorism due to Sniper targeting pods

So it was good purchase

Now Thunders are maturing a 7-10 years later from it's inception turning out to be a wonderful platform which we can enhance anytime

 

[New World]

And the result if Chinese JV doesn't provide enough redundancy. PAC should open another factory in Saudi.

The Thunder went through 6 prototypes, with extensive inputs from PAF pilots thoroughly early to mid 2000. I don't believe in conspiracy theories.

The capital spent on operationalizing M2Ks could have made Thunder infeasible. At this point it is very hard to determine.

Thunder is a direct competitor of Gripen. No need to acquire the same platform twice.

Rafale, when it was offered had serious technical issues, due to which it was rejected. Also, Dassault could involve us on very expensive game if selling one solution to us, its counter to India, so on and so forth.

The EFT, till early 2000s, was an air superiority fighter. This is NOT what PAF required. Possibly this is the root of the perception that it was rejected for being 'too advanced'.

After reading your comment. i think you should have re-read history again..

@MastanKhan

 

[-angRyPlayeR]

Thread about JF-17, stay on topic.. IAF got 200+ mki not few dozen besides that m2k and mig- 29... Do little research before commenting.. and Rafale : it is only initial order, there will be more follow on orders..

Okay 250 su-30 mki and 50 rafale and much more.
But thats not the real point. There is difference between buying and developing air craft. Any country can buy leading air craft if they can afford like Dubai,Qatar,Saudia Arabia. But none of them manufacture jets.

There nothing to feel proud buying jets.
But induction of 100 jets homemade jets is huge boost to PAC which is something to be proud of.

Please let the kid enjoy as he is happy with what PAF will have in a few years whereas he completely ignores that 270 IAF SU-30MKI will be Super MKI, 36 Rafael will become 72 or more, there will be dozens of Tejas and possibly advanced version of Gripen, F-16, F-35 or SU-35 etc.

And while my countrymen rejoice on the 100th JF-17, I mourn the lost opportunities, the 3.5 Billion USD spent on 2 squadrons of F-16's in 2005 which could have done wonders for JF-17, to the point of making the JF better than block 60 of F-16's and so on....

Respected Sir,
IAF might be getting advance aircraft.
But there is difference between buying and manufacturing them.
We are happy because it is huge achievement for PAC.
Furthermore, I think looking at the circumstance in 2005 when Pakistan purchased 2 squadron of f-16
its was the best decision under the circumstances because Pakistan required urgent need of Capable jet.Pakistan could not put all of his money in research and development which will further delay jf-17 production.
If pakistan did it in 2005 than today we might me enjoying 1st squadron of jf-17.

Meanwhile, progress of jf-17 programme is going in right direction. Upcoming variants will fill the gap.

One more thing, Kids of today will be Man of tomorrow.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Sometimes it is important to focus on our own success , and not keep ourselves preoccupied with what Enemy is doing

We are thousand time better that what the scenario would have been had we not started the JF17 Program 20 years ago.

Manufacturing our own platform means we can always extend the capabilities of our Jets to Infinity and our imagination

a) Radar
b) Weapons package

All can be enhanced at any given time together with advance Visual Visors and gadgets to make them ready for 2017 on wards vs a fighter jet we export from outside which we can't modify to our specifications or requirement

 

[volatile]

Furthermore, I think looking at the circumstance in 2005 when Pakistan purchased 2 squadron of f-16
its was the best decision under the circumstances because Pakistan required urgent need of Capable jet.Pakistan could

With due respect the negotiation till final delivery it was almost 10 years so your definition of quick doesnt fit in ,how ever buying F16 was some what justified (considering the kill switch and Us being unreliable partner it is/was/will be big No) J10 was quick and affordable missing out the platform will haunt us and it was a step in establishing AL series Engine maintenance facility ,This is what we are celebrating here ? the manufacturing and keeping in house every thing ,Do you ever wonder why there is no F16 rebuild factory we have Mirage/F6/F7/A5s factory but no F16 this is how much F16 is tricky

 

[CriticalThought]

With due respect the negotiation till final delivery it was almost 10 years so your definition of quick doesnt fit in ,how ever buying F16 was some what justified (considering the kill switch and Us being unreliable partner it is/was/will be big No) J10 was quick and affordable missing out the platform will haunt us and it was a step in establishing AL series Engine maintenance facility ,This is what we are celebrating here ? the manufacturing and keeping in house every thing ,Do you ever wonder why there is no F16 rebuild factory we have Mirage/F6/F7/A5s factory but no F16 this is how much F16 is tricky

Actually,not everything is advertised. Recently, there were pics shared on the forum about Turkish forms running courses at PAC for F-16 maintenance. Similarly, pics were shared of F-16s refurbished within Pakistan. And PAC has been overhauling F-16 engines since ages.

 

[MastanKhan]

After reading your comment. i think you should have re-read history again..

@MastanKhan

Hi,

I don't understand what you are trying to say---. If you could be a little clearer---then I can respond in a better manner. Thank you.