Cold Start? Mutually Assured Destruction by Lt. Gen (R) Tariq Khan

[Jackdaws]

No one is going to war. The Pakistani author, although erudite misses the point - it is the job of the Armed Forces of every country to keep various options ready. This is just one of the doctrines. Their will be a doctrine for a major terror strike in India; one for fighting a two-front war with Pak-China. This doesn't mean we are all going to war.

His argument about non-state actors in Pak is also fairly stupid. Pak should round them up and try them expediently is they want peace. When the world sees Pak imprisoning the guy Afridi whose information led to the killing of Osama while guys like Hafeez Saeed walk free - no one really takes Pakistan seriously.

Pakistani leadership seems to have a tribal mindset relying on friendship in international affairs instead of economics. First they were American slaves now they are Chinese slaves assuming that in all international conflicts one of their "allies" will support them. When push comes to shove, no one ever comes to militarily rescue Pakistan.

 

[The Accountant]

We apparently have 1.2 million men in Kashmir alone according to both your politicians and media. How difficult is it to have 1 million in Pakistan?



Experts claim only one thing. Russia is not longer an existential threat. That's it. If Russia is not a threat, what makes you think Pakistan is one? Especially to a country the size of India.

India is an existential threat to Pakistan. Pakistan is not an existential threat to India.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-is-an-existential-threat-to-pakistan-says-musharraf-451243


Basically what this means is you can use all your nukes, but India will survive while Pakistan will cease to exist. Your own experts are saying this, not Indians.

No, nukes can't destroy the world. Nukes are quite small, too small to destroy the world. Even the biggest nuke can only have a blast radius of around 5-10Km. The circumference of the world is 40000Km, the surface area is millions of square kilometers. And thousands of nukes is too small. Even during Cold War, with 80000 nukes on both sides, it wasn't enough to destroy the world.

India will happily survive the piddly 100 nukes that you have in your arsenal.



Attacking cities requires too many men and materials and takes too much time. We will need WW2 style armies. The better option is to cut off supply lines, the cities will empty themselves.

If they nuke us, apart from retaliating with nukes, we will destroy their biggest dams also. The flooding will further weaken cities. Follow that up with the destruction of power plants and Pak will be in the stone age for the next 50 years.

Once the economic activity is dead, it will be easy to split the country by doling out carrots to the remaining population. They will be willing to accept change in order to better their condition.

Yes and they are begging to get out sometime by videos ... sometime by running to Azad Kashmir ... just watching video of rerurn of your soldier who came to Pakistan to get rid of you ...

Secondly kashmir is occupied since 70 years still not able to win their heart ... they are unarmed ... on the contrary our mainland people are prepared and properly armed ... you have no idea how much armed a common pakistani is and you have no idea about how much they want to fight india ... you are being feed entirely baseless data by your media ... by the grace of Allah our difficult times of internal rift over ... your monkeys have failed ...

Our armed forces are a boon to you guys otherwise we have much larger force of common people ready to make havoc in india and is very well equiped for gurilla warfare ...

 

[randomradio]

Yes and they are begging to get out sometime by videos ... sometime by running to Azad Kashmir ... just watching video of rerurn of your soldier who came to Pakistan to get rid of you ...

Secondly kashmir is occupied since 70 years still not able to win their heart ... they are unarmed ... on the contrary our mainland people are prepared and properly armed ... you have no idea how much armed a common pakistani is and you have no idea about how much they want to fight india ... you are being feed entirely baseless data by your media ... by the grace of Allah our difficult times of internal rift over ... your monkeys have failed ...

Our armed forces are a boon to you guys otherwise we have much larger force of common people ready to make havoc in india and is very well equiped for gurilla warfare ...

Interesting, so what you're saying is your army is not particularly useful. Ultimately your civilian populace will have to fight. That's not difficult to take care of. We will use heavy weapons, aircraft and artillery, you can use your AK-47 to fight back. We call it a 2.5 front war. I wonder how much of a Pakistan will be left by the time we are done.

Oh, btw, we have won the hearts and minds of the people of Kashmir. The current govt in Kashmir is Modi's NDA. Who do you think voted his party to power there?

Look what the opposition has to say about it.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...p-kashmir-issue-jammu-agitation/1/753022.html

As Kashmir continues to be in state of crisis even after 52 days curfew being finally lifted, senior Congress leader Ghulam Nabi Azad today claimed that Bharatiya Janata Party is in a better position to resolve Kashmir issue.

"Now that the BJP is running the government in the state and in the Centre, it can give a good solution," Azad added after meeting the Congress leaders here.

 

[The Accountant]

Interesting, so what you're saying is your army is not particularly useful. Ultimately your civilian populace will have to fight. That's not difficult to take care of. We will use heavy weapons, aircraft and artillery, you can use your AK-47 to fight back. We call it a 2.5 front war. I wonder how much of a Pakistan will be left by the time we are done.

Oh, btw, we have won the hearts and minds of the people of Kashmir. The current govt in Kashmir is Modi's NDA. Who do you think voted his party to power there?

Look what the opposition has to say about it.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...p-kashmir-issue-jammu-agitation/1/753022.html

What i am sayying you understand it very well ... Still you want to troll then go ahead ... Keep on writing useless stuff as yyou indians can do nothing other than barking ....

You cant do a shit other than waging war on your media ...

On Kashmir ... Last time the highlight was even one of the longest curfew in history could not stop the incidence of raising pakistani flag out in the open public ...

 

[randomradio]

What i am sayying you understand it very well ... Still you want to troll then go ahead ... Keep on writing useless stuff as yyou indians can do nothing other than barking ....

You cant do a shit other than waging war on your media ...

On Kashmir ... Last time the highlight was even one of the longest curfew in history could not stop the incidence of raising pakistani flag out in the open public ...

Heard of demonetization? If you figure out why the protests stopped, then you will know.

 

[The Accountant]

Heard of demonetization? If you figure out why the protests stopped, then you will know.

Now you bring in domentization ... Next time yyou will bring in floods ... Stop posting off topic and if yyou dont have anything realistic to debate stop posting here or at minimum stop quoting me ... Bottom line is despite of pakistan being 5 times smaller we are not readyy to stop yyour hagmonyy ...

Byy grace of Allah we have fought back everytime ...

Be it your nuclear weapons ... Yyour cold start doctrine ... Or any other thing .... Yyou cant do a dime except for funding criminal TTP and BLA ... At max yyou can do SurGKal strike on media ... Thats it ... Nothing for real ... You cant afford a full fledge war with us as we have the capability to i flict equal damage to yyou ... And thats the end of story ...

If you believe differntly than stop being a keyyboard warrior and tell yyour leaders start a real war who seems to be waging everday byy barking on media onlyy ...

I never see a chief of armed forces to tell its war trump card on media ... It is a proof that india cant wage a war on Pakistan other than on media ....

 

[Malik Usman]

SO now how the hindian liars on PDF deny the existence of the Cold Start Doctrine? They have been as usual in the denial mode but now their army chief is claiming.
They bring the cold start or hot start we will finish them off with our full might inshaALLAH...Ghazwa-e-Hind Zindabad.

They have been denying all along since 1971, creation of Bangladesh and now recently their PM accepted that it was India who separate the Bangladesh from Pakistan...............they have born habit to lie..........

 

[randomradio]

Now you bring in domentization ... Next time yyou will bring in floods ... Stop posting off topic and if yyou dont have anything realistic to debate stop posting here or at minimum stop quoting me ... Bottom line is despite of pakistan being 5 times smaller we are not readyy to stop yyour hagmonyy ...

Byy grace of Allah we have fought back everytime ...

Be it your nuclear weapons ... Yyour cold start doctrine ... Or any other thing .... Yyou cant do a dime except for funding criminal TTP and BLA ... At max yyou can do SurGKal strike on media ... Thats it ... Nothing for real ... You cant afford a full fledge war with us as we have the capability to i flict equal damage to yyou ... And thats the end of story ...

If you believe differntly than stop being a keyyboard warrior and tell yyour leaders start a real war who seems to be waging everday byy barking on media onlyy ...

I never see a chief of armed forces to tell its war trump card on media ... It is a proof that india cant wage a war on Pakistan other than on media ....

Haha. So you have no idea what demonetization did to the protests. Typical behaviour that I've seen here. Clueless ranting.

 

[khanmubashir]

That's nothing compared to what your Hindu fascist leaders say.

We apparently have 1.2 million men in Kashmir alone according to both your politicians and media. How difficult is it to have 1 million in Pakistan?
If u. Can hit dams we can. Too especially with tectical nukes u haven't developed yet I hope your gov isn't as stupid as as for nukes yes they blast area in km bit radiation genius spreads far bigger area and persists for decades one nuke of heroshema level would b enough to decimate a big city IE killing most of its people and destroy most of infrastructure nation I'd past have been wiped out by natural calamities and nukes r equal to man made one and for dams u have much more then us means for chances to flood u if we resort to dam busting as for this controlling rest of population if u wipe out big cities rest will follow have u seen Iraq war and Afghanistan it were small cities from where resistance started and went towards big cities read history then make such stupid claim
Kashmir didn't had a well trained battle hardened army around million + as Pakistan has and Still Azad Kashmir and GB kicked u out with local rebels and Nehru had to run to UN for help


Experts claim only one thing. Russia is not longer an existential threat. That's it. If Russia is not a threat, what makes you think Pakistan is one? Especially to a country the size of India.

India is an existential threat to Pakistan. Pakistan is not an existential threat to India.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-is-an-existential-threat-to-pakistan-says-musharraf-451243


Basically what this means is you can use all your nukes, but India will survive while Pakistan will cease to exist. Your own experts are saying this, not Indians.

No, nukes can't destroy the world. Nukes are quite small, too small to destroy the world. Even the biggest nuke can only have a blast radius of around 5-10Km. The circumference of the world is 40000Km, the surface area is millions of square kilometers. And thousands of nukes is too small. Even during Cold War, with 80000 nukes on both sides, it wasn't enough to destroy the world.

India will happily survive the piddly 100 nukes that you have in your arsenal.



Attacking cities requires too many men and materials and takes too much time. We will need WW2 style armies. The better option is to cut off supply lines, the cities will empty themselves.

If they nuke us, apart from retaliating with nukes, we will destroy their biggest dams also. The flooding will further weaken cities. Follow that up with the destruction of power plants and Pak will be in the stone age for the next 50 years.

Once the economic activity is dead, it will be easy to split the country by doling out carrots to the remaining population. They will be willing to accept change in order to better their condition.

with tectical nukes u haven't developed yet I hope your gov isn't as stupid as as for nukes yes they blast area in km bit radiation genius spreads far bigger area and persists for decades one nuke of heroshema level would b enough to decimate a big city IE killing most of its people and destroy most of infrastructure nation I'd past have been wiped out by natural calamities and nukes r equal to man made one and for dams u have much more then us means for chances to flood u if we resort to dam busting as for this controlling rest of population if u wipe out big cities rest will follow have u seen Iraq war and Afghanistan it were small cities from where resistance started and went towards big cities read history then make such stupid claim
Kashmir didn't had a well trained battle hardened army around million + as Pakistan has and Still Azad Kashmir and GB kicked u out with local rebels and Nehru had to run to UN for help

 

[wasileo80]

My take is that in case of a war, India will try to occupy important Pakistani territory, such as Lahore swiftly as they are just on the other side of the border, and would hold until Pakistan gives up. A war between India and Pakistan will be short and will not involve nukes. I think the essence of cold start is to hold Pakistani territory swiftly, and then use it as bargaining chip.

O really, so in your dream that capturing lahore is as simple as you mentioning... Well i appreciate the approach taken by a senior member. why you forget about that these lands of Punjab are highly fortified and in the presence of Pak Army offensive, holding and reserve Corps in these sectors, still you are thinking it is so easy as you are wrote in your comment.
Well for your information, This is also the plan of Pak Army that in case of any conflict, Pak army will launch offensive on indian soil and will try to quickly capture indian land to use as a bargaining chip...
Dear its not as easy and mind it that in case of conflict there would not be a big difference in parity of both forces, both forces will evenly matched in any future conflict whether these numbers are in armored, artillery or troops. And in case of war there would be only the damage on both sides or may be complete destruction of South Asia.

 

[The Accountant]

Haha. So you have no idea what demonetization did to the protests. Typical behaviour that I've seen here. Clueless ranting.

@WAJsal @WebMaster despite of repeated request this guy is repeatedly bringing off.topic maters just to derail the thread ... kindly check ...

 

[Mo12]

Nuclear war will never happen, even if India attacks; it's very unlikely Pakistan will use 'tactical nukes'. Nuclear remarks were made only to keep Indian misadventures at bay as Pakistan was in a vulnerable position because of the bogged down fighting in North West. No matter what, neither side has the capabilities or resources for a proper war. If there is ever a war, it'll be similar to 1965; many casualties but will end up reverting to previous boundaries.

I think nuclear weapons will be used as a last resort, when all military equipment, planes and ships are gone.

Its about weather a ceasefire can be made before that happens.

 

[khanmubashir]

We apparently have 1.2 million men in Kashmir alone according to both your politicians and media. How difficult is it to have 1 million in Pakistan?



Experts claim only one thing. Russia is not longer an existential threat. That's it. If Russia is not a threat, what makes you think Pakistan is one? Especially to a country the size of India.

India is an existential threat to Pakistan. Pakistan is not an existential threat to India.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-is-an-existential-threat-to-pakistan-says-musharraf-451243


Basically what this means is you can use all your nukes, but India will survive while Pakistan will cease to exist. Your own experts are saying this, not Indians.

No, nukes can't destroy the world. Nukes are quite small, too small to destroy the world. Even the biggest nuke can only have a blast radius of around 5-10Km. The circumference of the world is 40000Km, the surface area is millions of square kilometers. And thousands of nukes is too small. Even during Cold War, with 80000 nukes on both sides, it wasn't enough to destroy the world.

India will happily survive the piddly 100 nukes that you have in your arsenal.



Attacking cities requires too many men and materials and takes too much time. We will need WW2 style armies. The better option is to cut off supply lines, the cities will empty themselves.

If they nuke us, apart from retaliating with nukes, we will destroy their biggest dams also. The flooding will further weaken cities. Follow that up with the destruction of power plants and Pak will be in the stone age for the next 50 years.

Once the economic activity is dead, it will be easy to split the country by doling out carrots to the remaining population. They will be willing to accept change in order to better their condition.

russia for now isnt existential threat for west bc it stopped spreading communism and so chances of using nukes which if used would b a global existential threat is minimal

 

[The Eagle]

Oh, really? Is that why we have lost 5500 members of security forces since the 90s in Kashmir?

Fencing came up only in 2003. Before that it was free for all. Thousands of militants have crossed over, their death toll alone is 21000.

Stone pelting has been a recent occurrence, only since a few years.

Then think about once came to Pakistan..... Your own quote about sending men here..... Casualties in IoK is India's own work and results....

Nukes are meant to prevent wars as a deterrence, bringing in massive casualties and making it very expensive when times comes for reparation. But once war starts, they will be used. If Europe, Russia, China and Japan were rebuilt, so will be India.

The difference here is India has the money to rebuild. What about Pakistan?

So can Pakistan..... You are just underestimating here...... See if we can or not and for such, you have to come here..... The question is whether Indian populace will face it or not......

 

[randomradio]

@WAJsal @WebMaster despite of repeated request this guy is repeatedly bringing off.topic maters just to derail the thread ... kindly check ...

Don't brings mods in to cover up your ignorance. Google demonetization and Kashmir protests, you will have your answer.

russia for now isnt existential threat for west bc it stopped spreading communism and so chances of using nukes which if used would b a global existential threat is minimal

Incorrect. Russia is no longer an existential threat because it no longer has an army capable of destroying the West.

Nukes are only a deterrence, what destroys the world is armies. A nuke is only a temporary measure for stopping economic growth.

Then think about once came to Pakistan..... Your own quote about sending men here..... Casualties in IoK is India's own work and results....

What do you mean "sending men here." Kashmir is our territory. It's our business to be here. There was decades of peace in Kashmir before Pak started sending terrorists into Kashmir.

So can Pakistan..... You are just underestimating here...... See if we can or not and for such, you have to come here..... The question is whether Indian populace will face it or not......

Nope. Pakistan has no money to rebuild entire cities. Indian populace will be fine even if Russia nukes India. Only the magnitude of the casualties will be different, but the population will survive comfortably, the nuked areas will be cleaned and rebuilt.

Example: This is Hiroshima's ground zero. The place where the nuke hit.

Even if Russia nukes every city in the West tomorrow, it won't be an existential threat because the Russians don't have an army that can follow up after the nuclear exchange.

In the India-Pak context, India will have an army that can follow up after a nuclear exchange. That's why India is an existential threat to Pakistan.