CM-400AKG: Pakistan's supersonic carrier killer

[seethru]

I know people here might have had to go through several days of debating JF 17 and LCA Tejas but can I ask you, once again. Is JF 17 a 4th generation air craft? can the Platform incorporate this missile? can Pakistanis give a final verdict on JF 17 comparing to Tejas in a single honest statement?

 

[SQ8]

so this is what I said, now we have single system to focus upon since Pak has not done any major defence acquisition in recent past...we know Pak in and out, now bcoz of deals like dis, we are getting to know about red wall which has zero information flow...so dont you expect the logic should be robust and scalable?

And thats a fail again..
The Erieye systems, The ZDK-03's. The SPADAs , The block-52's , The JF-17's.. and the list goes on.
its ok, you made a faux pas.

 

[JohnyD]

Makes no sense

bother to explain why?

 

[SQ8]

I know people here might have had to go through several days of debating JF 17 and LCA Tejas but can I ask you, once again. Is JF 17 a 4th generation air craft? can the Platform incorporate this missile? can Pakistanis give a final verdict on JF 17 comparing to Tejas in a single honest statement?

Nothing that most of you guys will accept...simply because unlike the LCA, there is little in terms of published accurate program figures and details for the Jf-17...what we know.. is through professional and personal contacts. And those when verified through multiple sources.. end up here.

 

[JohnyD]

And thats a fail again..
The Erieye systems, The ZDK-03's. The SPADAs , The block-52's , The JF-17's.. and the list goes on.
its ok, you made a faux pas.

guess, u need to revisit ur own posts...bfn...

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

I know people here might have had to go through several days of debating JF 17 and LCA Tejas but can I ask you, once again. Is JF 17 a 4th generation air craft? can the Platform incorporate this missile? can Pakistanis give a final verdict on JF 17 comparing to Tejas in a single honest statement?

how about this u ur self go and search the Jf 17 info pool there some senior member had placed the international guidelines for the certification of generations of aircraft....now abt comparison with LCA that is a long flame war out here and no one can compare an aircraft until it have seen combat with each other and even thn it is really hard so forget abt the comparison..and search the forum or internet to make ur own mind up abt generation of jf

 

[SQ8]

But i want to know your final judgement on JF 17 in contrast to LCA given the information you know. I promise i won't make any comments on your judegment/opinion.

okay.. but I AM ALSO RESTRICTING any comments on this by other members and will give no replies.

As briefly as possible..so I may leave somethings out.
The LCA was destined to be what the Jf-17 is now. A low cost multi-role solution for a lightweight slot.
The JF-17 gives the PAF the ability to defend on its own turf under its own radar cover and ECM coverage to an acceptable extent.
That was the program goal, it has been met.

The LCA was destined to replace and improve upon the slot that the Mig-21 held in the IAF back in the 90's.
And while it has finally reached that goal today, and has better avionics than the JF-17 in some respects.. its late.
Its late so much that while its a fine platform now, the growth and upgrades will push it out of the original concept it was destined to be. So the Tejas is not a failure.. nor are the technologies developed during the program.. but the program goal is.
There is also another key difference.

The JF-17 has boosted the PAF's potential from its baseline, its given it a boost to compete to a certain extent for its ORBAT.
The Tejas doesn't actually add anything to the IAF's complete arsenal that it does not already have in some form(MKI,M2K) or will have (Rafale). And by all reports, its a program that no service of the Indian armed forces actually displays love for.

On a platform level.
In a knife fight..turning fight.. unless the Tejas gets a first shot kill(which is likely considering its arsenal)..it is dead meat... The JF-17 is a fine dogfighter..and the Tejas suffers from the same limitations that the M2K suffers from when going against the F-16.

In BVR, it may go the Tejas's way since its ECM suite is known to be good while the JF-17's is an unknown.
Moreover, the Derby is a deadly missile while performance figures for the SD-10 cannot be publically disclosed to give an accurate picture.

In reliability.. the Tejas takes the cake with its composite design(more structurally sound)..and engine(GE-404.. reliable).
But only once its in service will official figures show.

But in a nutshell.. I would give JF-17 the better points.. not because its a better aircraft or otherwise..
but simply because its become what it was always set out to be(on time)..and has surpassed those goals to some extent.

The Tejas is like the prodigy no-one cares for, its a brilliant little thing(relatively).. but its just not there on time.

 

[SQ8]

guess, u need to revisit ur own posts...bfn...

Which ones?, please quote me when you claim to have heard to the contrary

This is not a cojones measuring contest..
No more Brahmos here, thank you very much.

 

[araz]

But i want to know your final judgement on JF 17 in contrast to LCA given the information you know. I promise i won't make any comments on your judegment/opinion.


I can do that. But i want a final statement or judgement on JF 17 in contrast to LCA. Please Post your opinion and I won't argue/comment on the judgement you make.

I have reported your posts for your blatant attempts at derailing threads. I think unless you see the light of the day and deszist you will be shown the door. I hope it is soon. By the way thais is a trend rather than an isolated episode and based on observation of multiple posts.
MODS PLEASE TAKE ACTION
Araz

 

[SQ8]

I have reported your posts for your blatant attempts at derailing threads. I think unless you see the light of the day and deszist you will be shown the door. I hope it is soon. By the way thais is a trend rather than an isolated episode and based on observation of multiple posts.
MODS PLEASE TAKE ACTION
Araz

In that case it will lead to infractions and a pink tutu is very very likely.

 

[khail007]

I know people here might have had to go through several days of debating JF 17 and LCA Tejas but can I ask you, once again. Is JF 17 a 4th generation air craft? can the Platform incorporate this missile? can Pakistanis give a final verdict on JF 17 comparing to Tejas in a single honest statement?

IMO, both can be compared against standard KPIs and that is fine; but keyboard comparison among both platforms in real battle seems useless until proven in real scenario.

We are happy with JF 17 performance and as a proof two squadrons already been equipped. Soon, 3rd is going to be raised. At least PAF's plans about JF 17 are on track and reflects PAF's satisfaction and trust in it.

For LCA Tejas you know better that how many numbers inducted in IAF. Thread 'Tejas MK.2 Build Begins' already started; you can refer to that thread for a general opinion about LCA by your own mates.

 

[seethru]

okay.. but I AM ALSO RESTRICTING any comments on this by other members and will give no replies.

As briefly as possible..so I may leave somethings out.
The LCA was destined to be what the Jf-17 is now. A low cost multi-role solution for a lightweight slot.
The JF-17 gives the PAF the ability to defend on its own turf under its own radar cover and ECM coverage to an acceptable extent.
That was the program goal, it has been met.

The LCA was destined to replace and improve upon the slot that the Mig-21 held in the IAF back in the 90's.
And while it has finally reached that goal today, and has better avionics than the JF-17 in some respects.. its late.
Its late so much that while its a fine platform now, the growth and upgrades will push it out of the original concept it was destined to be. So the Tejas is not a failure.. nor are the technologies developed during the program.. but the program goal is.
There is also another key difference.

The JF-17 has boosted the PAF's potential from its baseline, its given it a boost to compete to a certain extent for its ORBAT.
The Tejas doesn't actually add anything to the IAF's complete arsenal that it does not already have in some form(MKI,M2K) or will have (Rafale). And by all reports, its a program that no service of the Indian armed forces actually displays love for.

On a platform level.
In a knife fight..turning fight.. unless the Tejas gets a first shot kill(which is likely considering its arsenal)..it is dead meat... The JF-17 is a fine dogfighter..and the Tejas suffers from the same limitations that the M2K suffers from when going against the F-16.

In BVR, it may go the Tejas's way since its ECM suite is known to be good while the JF-17's is an unknown.
Moreover, the Derby is a deadly missile while performance figures for the SD-10 cannot be publically disclosed to give an accurate picture.

In reliability.. the Tejas takes the cake with its composite design(more structurally sound)..and engine(GE-404.. reliable).
But only once its in service will official figures show.

But in a nutshell.. I would give JF-17 the better points.. not because its a better aircraft or otherwise..
but simply because its become what it was always set out to be(on time)..and has surpassed those goals to some extent.

The Tejas is like the prodigy no-one cares for, its a brilliant little thing(relatively).. but its just not there on time.

Thanks. Especially the last three points are what i wanted.

I have reported your posts for your blatant attempts at derailing threads. I think unless you see the light of the day and deszist you will be shown the door. I hope it is soon. By the way thais is a trend rather than an isolated episode and based on observation of multiple posts.
MODS PLEASE TAKE ACTION
Araz

you don't have to do that. i just wanted your final assesments and i think it's the right time too. If you don't want to do it fine.

 

[batmannow]

And the price of Brahmos is in multiples of millions.
Who will buy such expensive missile.

bangladesh , nepal,& bhutan! lol

 

[Dazzler]

Complete shock and awe on the internet about CM-400AKG speed. The evidence of which can be seen here on PDF as well.For Pakistanis it is very much understandable because they have been listening the rants about Brahmos speed for quite some time.

Prasun K Gupta

Judging from the reaction on multiple fora, it can only be termed just that.

 

[Dazzler]

China Develops CM-400AKG Pakistan's Hypersonic Carrier Killer Missile For JF-17 | ASIAN DEFENSE


China has developed a hypersonic Aircraft carrier killer missile and has been deployed by the PAF.

The missile has been described as the PAF's Hypersonic 'Carrier Killer Missile'
Pakistan has deployed a new hypersonic long-range air-launched missile that officials in the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) have described as "a hypersonic aircraft carrier killer missile".
The CM-400AKG is a Mach 4 plus-capable air-to-surface weapon developed in China and now in service with JF-17 fighter aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force. The weapon, designated CM-400AKG, was designed and developed in China by the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) and was revealed at Airshow China 2012, held in Zhuhai in November.

The CM-400AKG is now part of the operational weapon set of the PAF's JF-17 Thunder multirole fighter. "This is a mature weapon that has been fully tested. It is not conceptual. It is in service," Air Commodore Mahmood Khalid, PAF JF-17 Deputy Project Director stated. "The CM-400AKG is a very high-speed missile that is very tough to intercept. It hits the target at Mach 4 or above and its kinetic impact alone is enough to destroy any high-value target, like an aircraft carrier."


The CM-400AKG first appeared, briefly, in public at last year's Dubai Airshow, when a placard for the weapon was placed alongside a PAF JF-17 - and then removed. The weapon itself was not shown. At the time PAF personnel acknowledged it was a new Chinese-built air-to-surface stand-off missile. However, the initial assumption that it was a derivative of the C-802 anti-ship missile has proved to be very wide of the mark.

The CM-400AKG is a 400 kg solid-rocket-powered weapon that can be fitted with either a penetrator or blast/fragmentation warhead. It is a fire-and-forget precision-guided weapon that can be fitted with several seeker options, which are understood to include an active radar seeker and an imaging infrared seeker with target-recognition (TR) capabilities. PAF sources say the missile can be pre-programmed with digital imagery for highly precise attacks against fixed sites in TR mode, but it can also be retargeted in flight by using the radar seeker option.

The range of the CM-400AKG is estimated to be in the 180-250 km class. It is designed for use against fixed or what were described as "slow moving" targets. CASIC data indicates that after launch the CM-400AKG climbs to high altitude and terminates with a high-speed dive on the target. The PAF describes the missile's impact velocity as "hypersonic" (> Mach 5).
Both CASIC and the PAF note that the CM-400AKG has been developed as a JF-17 Aircraft carrier killer weapon. The PAF currently has two squadrons of approximately 36 JF-17s operational.