CM-400AKG: A tough job for the Indian Navy

[GURU DUTT]

my honest question to all pakistani and chinese posters please tell me how will a JF17 with say 4 SD10 & 2 CM-400AKG will come any where as close say 180 KMs near an indian carrier to launch its deadli ASM's

lets start it this way

1. say a bunch ( 5 JH 17 - 3 for giving air support & 2 with 4 CM-400AKG) takes off from say your faislabad air base to destroy a indian CBG say 500 KMs from Pakistani shore ...now the indian response thanks to owr already very potent ASEA based RADARS your movment will be picked up and bieng tracked and all owr assets bieng alerted (Including CBG)

2. CBG when gets an alert from the shore based assets of India scrambels its heli borne AWACS to scan the entire area and launches its MIG 29 Ks which can detect & track a JF 17 from at least 175 KM's while JF-17 cant do the same ..while having a fighting radius of 850 KMs withowt external feul tanks ..point is a MIG can and will take owt a JF17 before it comes anywhere near say 300km from the CBG

3.OK your JF -17 even if avade the Migs they still have to pass thru the other ships which each carries a long range radar + LR , MR & SR sam and there are at least 8 such ships in any CBG how will you reach any where near them withowt bieng shot at

So my pakistani friends please tell me how will you send a JF17 any where near say at least 240KMS to launch its ASM's on Indian CBG ...please do tell me im waiting

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

On top of that consider the delivery platform jf-17.Jf-17's radar can only pick up a naval surface target at 130 km.Therefore its incapable of taking on the CBG with its own radar from respectable distance to utilize cg-400akg's full range.
Considering jf-17 strike package is certain to be intercepted by mig-29ks out on CAP.

See how they match up.

MANUEVREBILITY and PERFORMANCE-

The MOST important parameter of this attribute is THRUST TO WEIGHT RATIO-

Mig-29k-1.09
Jf-17-.82
Clearly latter is completely outmatched.TW ratio under 1 is not ideal.

2nd most important parameter-

WING LOADING-

Assuming both sides carrying Air to air weaponry[as is norm for CAP fighter protecting carriers and escorting jf-17s of the strike package which would amount to around 3.5 tonnes.By empty weight plus air to air weaponry divided by wing area]

Jf-17 - 371 kg/m^2
MIG-29K -390 kg/m^2

Here due to its lighter weight and single engine jf-17 gets advantage.

Other important parameters-

RATE OF CLIMB-

Jf-17 -175m/s
Mig-29k - 330m/s

Large difference in favour of mig-29k here.

G-limit-
Jf-17-8-8.5 G
Mig-29K- 9.5G

ANGLE OF ATTACK-
Mig-29 has traditionally had awesome angle of attack-
Max 45 degrees.
F-16 has around 30 degrees.
I am guessing mig-29 has large advantage over jf-17 here.Feel free to prove me wrong.

In other parameters of performance-

Service ceiling
Mig-29k-57,400 ft
jf-17-55,500 ft
More or less equal.

Speed-
Jf-17-Max MACH 1.6
Mig-29K -Max Mach 2.2
Solid advantage again for mig-29k.

Use of composites-jf-17- none.
Mig-29K-15%
As seen above Mig-29k almost totally outperforms jf-17 in manuevreability and performance.

NEXT-
AVIONICS-

Both fighters have EW suite and radar warning recievers,countermeasures,Digital FBW,HUD [heads up display] and MFD[multi functional display],HMS.

Key parameters-

RADAR-
JF-17-
KJ-7-5m^2 target at 105 kms.Can track 10 targets in BVR mode and engage 2.Can pick up naval targets only at 135 kms.

Mig-29K-
ZHUK-ME-5m^2 target at 120 kms.Can track 10 and engage 4 simultaneously.Can pick up naval targets at 300kms.
Again solid advantage for mig-29k.

IRST tracker-
Mig-29k-yes
jf-17-no
Another clear advantage of mig-29k.

3.ARMAMENT.

9 HARDPOINTS for mig-29k.
7 hardpoints for jf-17.

jf-17.Can carry 3000kg payload.
Mig-29kCan carry 5500 kg payload.

IMPORTANTLY,
Mig-29k can use R-73 ARCHER/HMS combo with high off boresight capability.
Something the AIM-9L or chinese WVR aams are unable to match.
This would give DECISIVE advantage in close combat to mig-29k.THis was found on luftwaffe mig-29s and thats why all western nations built high off boresight WVRs- example-pythn 4/5 for israel,Aim-9X for usa,IRIS-T germany.

Another fact-
Jf-17 is equipped with a single type of BVR-
PL-12/SD-10.An ACTIVE RADAR HOMING weapon.Range 70km-100kms.

Mig-29k-
Can use BVR missiles with 3 different types of guidance,much more difficult for countermeasures to defeat.

SEMI ACTIVE RADAR HOMING-
R-27R alamo-60-80 KM
R-27ER-Max range 130 km.

PASSIVE INFRA RED HOMING-
R-27T-70 kms
R-27ET-130 kms

ACTIVE RADAR HOMING-
R-77/RVV-AE -80 kms.

Thus in all 3 parameters of performance and manuevreability,armament and avionics MIg-29k holds solid advantage.
Therefore the chances of a jf-17 strike package actually threatening carrier after getting through mig-29k umbrella are nearly non existent.

 

[Beerbal]

^^^^


Except F16 no single engine Aircraft is true Multirole...
FC1 can be used as just "point defense fighter" and nothing else...

 

[GURU DUTT]

well the thing here is first pakistanies get elevated by some news of a forthcoming new wepon and then start fantasizing about its impact totalli forgeting the advances on the other side of the border and hard reality in time they thing the drwemas they thoght are the facts and then come whole hog to prove there fancies as facts but when met by hard facts and when they have no valid answers / links / videos they first abuse the other side and then rubbish the facts / links / videos given by others as false propoganda ...the prime example of this behaviour is they thinkin the pakistani AWACS can guide AA , ASM & other super dupar wepons which they get from there "Friends not masters" & "all weather friends"

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

make No mistake, tomorrow on some other thread, dishonest Pakistanis will come again with same claims and arguments which is debunked many times like now.

 

[alimobin memon]

Lol 1000 thanks and 1000's of posts With PDF Ranked Generals Now are assuming there stupid Strategy How Pakistan Naval airforce will carry the missions and will be destroyed by Mighty Indian Navy. I wonder if they are so Sexy in power Why MMRCA deals and S H I T just Attack us Now !

 

[Mujahid Memon]

my honest question to all pakistani and chinese posters please tell me how will a JF17 with say 4 SD10 & 2 CM-400AKG will come any where as close say 180 KMs near an indian carrier to launch its deadli ASM's

lets start it this way

1. say a bunch ( 5 JH 17 - 3 for giving air support & 2 with 4 CM-400AKG) takes off from say your faislabad air base to destroy a indian CBG say 500 KMs from Pakistani shore ...now the indian response thanks to owr already very potent ASEA based RADARS your movment will be picked up and bieng tracked and all owr assets bieng alerted (Including CBG)

2. CBG when gets an alert from the shore based assets of India scrambels its heli borne AWACS to scan the entire area and launches its MIG 29 Ks which can detect & track a JF 17 from at least 175 KM's while JF-17 cant do the same ..while having a fighting radius of 850 KMs withowt external feul tanks ..point is a MIG can and will take owt a JF17 before it comes anywhere near say 300km from the CBG

3.OK your JF -17 even if avade the Migs they still have to pass thru the other ships which each carries a long range radar + LR , MR & SR sam and there are at least 8 such ships in any CBG how will you reach any where near them withowt bieng shot at

So my pakistani friends please tell me how will you send a JF17 any where near say at least 240KMS to launch its ASM's on Indian CBG ...please do tell me im waiting

faisalabad air base

hahaha, what a joke

bolne se pehle soch lo warna bezati hojati hai

 

[GURU DUTT]

Lol 1000 thanks and 1000's of posts With PDF Ranked Generals Now are assuming there stupid Strategy How Pakistan Naval airforce will carry the missions and will be destroyed by Mighty Indian Navy. I wonder if they are so Sexy in power Why MMRCA deals and S H I T just Attack us Now !

he he he he well sir unlike u we indians dont indulge and waste owr resources on emotional owtbrusts ...what has pakistan to offer us so that we attack it......... well sir there is a lot of difference between India & land of the pure now and love and war is good onli when done between countries of equal stature and pakistan is not worth it ...hope u dont mind Sir

 

[Mujahid Memon]

On top of that consider the delivery platform jf-17.Jf-17's radar can only pick up a naval surface target at 130 km.Therefore its incapable of taking on the CBG with its own radar from respectable distance to utilize cg-400akg's full range.
Considering jf-17 strike package is certain to be intercepted by mig-29ks out on CAP.

See how they match up.

MANUEVREBILITY and PERFORMANCE-

The MOST important parameter of this attribute is THRUST TO WEIGHT RATIO-

Mig-29k-1.09
Jf-17-.82
Clearly latter is completely outmatched.TW ratio under 1 is not ideal.

2nd most important parameter-

WING LOADING-

Assuming both sides carrying Air to air weaponry[as is norm for CAP fighter protecting carriers and escorting jf-17s of the strike package which would amount to around 3.5 tonnes.By empty weight plus air to air weaponry divided by wing area]

Jf-17 - 371 kg/m^2
MIG-29K -390 kg/m^2

Here due to its lighter weight and single engine jf-17 gets advantage.

Other important parameters-

RATE OF CLIMB-

Jf-17 -175m/s
Mig-29k - 330m/s

Large difference in favour of mig-29k here.

G-limit-
Jf-17-8-8.5 G
Mig-29K- 9.5G

ANGLE OF ATTACK-
Mig-29 has traditionally had awesome angle of attack-
Max 45 degrees.
F-16 has around 30 degrees.
I am guessing mig-29 has large advantage over jf-17 here.Feel free to prove me wrong.

In other parameters of performance-

Service ceiling
Mig-29k-57,400 ft
jf-17-55,500 ft
More or less equal.

Speed-
Jf-17-Max MACH 1.6
Mig-29K -Max Mach 2.2
Solid advantage again for mig-29k.

Use of composites-jf-17- none.
Mig-29K-15%
As seen above Mig-29k almost totally outperforms jf-17 in manuevreability and performance.

NEXT-
AVIONICS-

Both fighters have EW suite and radar warning recievers,countermeasures,Digital FBW,HUD [heads up display] and MFD[multi functional display],HMS.

Key parameters-

RADAR-
JF-17-
KJ-7-5m^2 target at 105 kms.Can track 10 targets in BVR mode and engage 2.Can pick up naval targets only at 135 kms.

Mig-29K-
ZHUK-ME-5m^2 target at 120 kms.Can track 10 and engage 4 simultaneously.Can pick up naval targets at 300kms.
Again solid advantage for mig-29k.

IRST tracker-
Mig-29k-yes
jf-17-no
Another clear advantage of mig-29k.

3.ARMAMENT.

9 HARDPOINTS for mig-29k.
7 hardpoints for jf-17.

jf-17.Can carry 3000kg payload.
Mig-29kCan carry 5500 kg payload.

IMPORTANTLY,
Mig-29k can use R-73 ARCHER/HMS combo with high off boresight capability.
Something the AIM-9L or chinese WVR aams are unable to match.
This would give DECISIVE advantage in close combat to mig-29k.THis was found on luftwaffe mig-29s and thats why all western nations built high off boresight WVRs- example-pythn 4/5 for israel,Aim-9X for usa,IRIS-T germany.

Another fact-
Jf-17 is equipped with a single type of BVR-
PL-12/SD-10.An ACTIVE RADAR HOMING weapon.Range 70km-100kms.

Mig-29k-
Can use BVR missiles with 3 different types of guidance,much more difficult for countermeasures to defeat.

SEMI ACTIVE RADAR HOMING-
R-27R alamo-60-80 KM
R-27ER-Max range 130 km.

PASSIVE INFRA RED HOMING-
R-27T-70 kms
R-27ET-130 kms

ACTIVE RADAR HOMING-
R-77/RVV-AE -80 kms.

Thus in all 3 parameters of performance and manuevreability,armament and avionics MIg-29k holds solid advantage.
Therefore the chances of a jf-17 strike package actually threatening carrier after getting through mig-29k umbrella are nearly non existent.

do u know about evasive maneuver. its not a capability of an aircraft, its the quality of our sherdils, your k****a pilots dont have this ability

 

[GURU DUTT]

faisalabad air base

hahaha, what a joke

bolne se pehle soch lo warna bezati hojati hai

he he he so thats the best response u could come up with good

 

[Mujahid Memon]

he he he he well sir unlike u we indians dont indulge and waste owr resources on emotional owtbrusts ...what has pakistan to offer us so that we attack it......... well sir there is a lot of difference between India & land of the pure now and love and war is good onli when done between countries of equal stature and pakistan is not worth it ...hope u dont mind Sir

yes, you true said. both countries dont have equal stature

 

[GURU DUTT]

do u know about evasive maneuver. its not a capability of an aircraft, its the quality of our sherdils, your k****a pilots dont have this ability

aaah yes evasive Maneuvers

what a brilliant answer

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Wow man the thread is over run with trolls... who know jack abt anything...

 

[GURU DUTT]

yes, you true said. both countries dont have equal stature

ya thats right we are a developing nation and world is linig for owr friendship while you get whipped on daily basis by your "friends not masters" and whole world....khair jane do

Wow man the thread is over run with trolls... who know jack abt anything...

ahhh the super intellegent member of PDF is here all hail the mighty Desert Fighter

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

do u know about evasive maneuver. its not a capability of an aircraft, its the quality of our sherdils, your k****a pilots dont have this ability

Ha ha ha ha.Totally lost the argument.Understood jf-17 stands no chance against mig-29k,started ranting....The quality of our pilots.Ask air forces exercising with our pilots.I understand your frustration at the impotency of jf-17 in this scenario.