Clerics attack Ahmadi house, torture family in Punjab

[somebozo]

Nobody questioned Ahmedis status as Muslims during the creation of Muslim homeland in 1947. Years after migrating to West Punjab, they realized they are the unwanted people in the Muslim homeland.

Dont worry....Hazara's and Shia's have also become unwanted.
Christians are on their way.

We will end up like Afghanistan.

 

[Windjammer]

Dont worry....Hazara's and Shia's have also become unwanted.
Christians are on their way.

We will end up like Afghanistan.

Even if it doesn't happen and most likely it will never, but no harm in predicting and cursing the Motherland......Right. !!

 

[xTra]

Why can't mullahs leave the Ahmedis alone.

 

[jayron]

Food for thought..why are we becoming such barbarians! Clearly there is a fault somewhere!! One cannot expect one of the most backward places on earth to come up with a religion of peace and tolerance...to sooner we realize this fault lines the better!


Muhammad's grandfather Abd al-Muttalib almost slaughtered Muhammad's father, Abdullah, at the Kaaba, to satisfy their God, Hubal. From Ibn Hisham: An arrow showed that it was 'Abdullah to be sacrificed. 'Abdul-Muttalib then took the boy to Al-Ka'bah with a razor to slaughter the boy. Quraish, his uncles from Makhzum tribe and his brother Abu Talib, however, tried to dissuade him. They suggested that he summon a she-diviner. She ordered that the divination arrows should be drawn with respect to 'Abdullah as well as ten camels. … the number of the camels (finally) amounted to one hundred. … They were all slaughtered to the satisfaction of Hubal. Ibn Hisham 1:151-155

The worship of stones was commonplace in seventh century Arabia. If a particular stone looked sufficiently appealing it would replace the previously worshipped stone. From Sahih Bukhari we have an account from Abu Raja Al-Utaridi who described the process circumambulating (tawaf) around stones that were worshipped.

Sahih Bukhari 59:661 "We used to worship stones, and when we found a better stone than the first one, we would throw the first one and take the latter, but if we could not get a stone then we would collect some earth and then bring a sheep and milk that sheep over it, and perform the Tawaf around it...".

All religions have things that are ridiculous. But some of them have evolved better than others. The best example is christianity which has purged most of the violent elements and mostly propagates goodness, though superficially.

 

[Zabaniyah]

one can argue that people can pick and choose in islam also..you have the puritan wahabees and salafis..and then you have the grave worshiping sufis~!

Just a question: What are the differences between a "Wahabee" and a Salafi?

From my understanding, "Wahabees" was a term used against followers of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. He wrote the book known as Kitab at-Tawhid (The Book of the Unity of God).

He was very critical of people worshiping graves. They were worshiping dead people!

Of-course, he criticized the practice, and got trolled in return. That is how he and his followers were called "Wahabees".

And to prove the grave worshipers wrong, he wrote that particular book. I'm sure you'll be able to find it. And it is from what I hear a very good book. It's a scholarly at least!

By the way, Al-Wahhab is also one of the 99 names of Allah, which translates into "The Bestower". So I find the term "Wahabee" absurd. And I'm sure many would find it offensive.

Therefore, I believe "Wahabees" and Salafis are the same. And they have had their historical contributions to understanding Islam just like Sufis (not fake Sufis).

And I see little point in dividing a society or nation just because of their works being arranged into "sects". Though, I'm not a great fan of Ahmadi beliefs, these actions are not at all justified.

 

[pkuser2k12]

this government does not want to do anything

7000 people dead in karachi

50000 dead due to terrorism and still no one hanged

the police constitutes of jahil and uneducated idots who are taught to follow their mnas

why is that crime has expanded insanely+terrorism+jis ki lathi us ki behns because they all know that police will not do anything and if they get caught they will simply be released from jail

people don't stop committing crime because every one is good they fear the law and police when there is no law and police why they fear anyone

 

[somebozo]

All religions have things that are ridiculous. But some of them have evolved better than others. The best example is christianity which has purged most of the violent elements and mostly propagates goodness, though superficially.

 

[KingMamba]

one can argue that people can pick and choose in islam also..you have the puritan wahabees and salafis..and then you have the grave worshiping sufis~!

Sufis do not worship graves, that practise was started by Barelvis who happen to be worshipping the graves of Sufi saints lol.

Just a question: What are the differences between a "Wahabee" and a Salafi?

From my understanding, "Wahabees" was a term used against followers of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. He wrote the book known as Kitab at-Tawhid (The Book of the Unity of God).

He was very critical of people worshiping graves. They were worshiping dead people!

Of-course, he criticized the practice, and got trolled in return. That is how he and his followers were called "Wahabees".

And to prove the grave worshipers wrong, he wrote that particular book. I'm sure you'll be able to find it. And it is from what I hear a very good book. It's a scholarly at least!

By the way, Al-Wahhab is also one of the 99 names of Allah, which translates into "The Bestower". So I find the term "Wahabee" absurd. And I'm sure many would find it offensive.

Therefore, I believe "Wahabees" and Salafis are the same. And they have had their historical contributions to understanding Islam just like Sufis (not fake Sufis).

And I see little point in dividing a society or nation just because of their works being arranged into "sects". Though, I'm not a great fan of Ahmadi beliefs, these actions are not at all justified.

The problem with Wahabbis is not the fact that they are against grave worshipping. The problem is their doctrine of clerical rule where clerics must be used to understand Islam and itijihad is not encouraged. They want people to be sheeps to their mullahs and are willing to kill those who do not conform. That along with the money that enables them is the problem with wahabbis. Not to mention the British influence on the doctrine.

You should perhaps know that Muhammad ul Wahabs most vocal critics were his brother and father who rejected his views.

 

[KingMamba]

It is going a bit off topic but Hinduism is a monotheistic religion at its core.

We believe in a nirakaar, nirgun (no form, no attributes) version as well as sakaar, sagun (with form and attributes) version. People can pick and choose.

There is the concept of "swadharma" (personal Dharma or duty) as well. There is a profound spiritual tradition, several ways to realize the divine and so on.

I am just a beginner on the quest. I just know that every path that you take can lead to the divine.

Yes I was reading on the monotheistic aspect of Hinduism, however my question is was the monotheistic aspect the original philosophy of hinduism and than it deviated from its course becoming multiple philosophies?? Or were they just different views from the onset?? I was reading a conversation between a Brahmin and Alexander, it was a great enlightening conversation. You can look it up in yesterdays threads.

 

[Vinod2070]

Yes I was reading on the monotheistic aspect of Hinduism, however my question is was the monotheistic aspect the original philosophy of hinduism and than it deviated from its course becoming multiple philosophies?? Or were they just different views from the onset?? I was reading a conversation between a Brahmin and Alexander, it was a great enlightening conversation. You can look it up in yesterdays threads.

I am not too sure about how it evolved from a historical standpoint. There is a multiplicity of scriptures and some of the scriptures (like various Puranas) may even have the same facts stated differently.

Even the multiple gods are considered to be just the different manifestation of the one Supreme God. We don't think of God as someone "out there, somewhere in the sky" but to be "down here, all around us", in every living and inanimate thing.

But I will invite someone more knowledgeable to answer your question in more detail.

 

[Zabaniyah]

The problem with Wahabbis is not the fact that they are against grave worshipping. The problem is their doctrine of clerical rule where clerics must be used to understand Islam and itijihad is not encouraged. They want people to be sheeps to their mullahs and are willing to kill those who do not conform. That along with the money that enables them is the problem with wahabbis. Not to mention the British influence on the doctrine.

Well, imams are not supposed to be politicians. Let alone heads of state.

Suffice to say, I believe the current problems in this context are due to the fact that Islam is currently being controlled by a bunch of megalomaniacs who are out of control.

And British influence of the doctrine? I heard that is a myth. It is really true?

You should perhaps know that Muhammad ul Wahabs most vocal critics were his brother and father who rejected his views.

Indeed.

In fact, his father disowned him at an early age!

 

[KingMamba]

@Loki @somebozo @revojam btw the twelver shia doctrine of valiyat faqih or whatever it is called is exactly the same as the wahabbi doctrine of taqlid. Both emphasis the need to follow clerics over personal reason and it is ironically this very reason that both are at odds with one another and hate each other so much lol. They are mirror images of the same doctrine shrouded by the cloak of shiaism and sunnism.

 

[revojam]

@Loki @somebozo @revojam btw the twelver shia doctrine of valiyat faqih or whatever it is called is exactly the same as the wahabbi doctrine of taqlid. Both emphasis the need to follow clerics over personal reason and it is ironically this very reason that both are at odds with one another and hate each other so much lol. They are mirror images of the same doctrine shrouded by the cloak of shiaism and sunnism.

Thats why i believe we need two nukes to save islam...one is not enough...both sources of evil must cleansed.Instead stupid muslim world taking a side between two sources of evil as sunni-shia and became collateral damage.

 

[KingMamba]

Well, imams are not supposed to be politicians. Let alone heads of state.

Suffice to say, I believe the current problems in this context are due to the fact that Islam is currently being controlled by a bunch of megalomaniacs who are out of control.

And British influence of the doctrine? I heard that is a myth. It is really true?



Indeed.

In fact, his father disowned him at an early age!

Lawrence of Arabia.

 

[doublemaster]

Yes Hinduism do not teach anybody to become a moral police and disrespect others beliefs, and also nobody found any scripts which say kill anybody who do not believe in Hindu GOD.

Ha ha...Lie.