Christopher Hitchens Goes Nuclear On Pakistan

[Porus]

It's a horrible incident. And there are many more like this. But are you arguing the entire 180 million people are like that? Cuz that's what your racist writer is suggesting. That in every household in Pakistan women are butchered upon birth, or chained to walls until thy grow up to be used for sex and bearing children. That is the writer's argument whom you are defending. If that's how you feel, then just come out in the open and admit it, be a fearless, straightforward, harsh truth speaking one and tell it as how you feel, nothing wrong with that.

And I'm not even gonna go into what horrible crimes against women have been committed in countries around the globe.

Who said that in Pakistan women get themselves raped to go to Canada? If the president of a country has this kind of mindset than what can be said about the normal people. Hitchens didn't say anywhere that all 180 million people are like that, he is just pointing out a fact and isn't it true that women are gang raped to punish them for the crimes their male members of the family have committed? In Punjab and Sindh women are gang raped and in Balochistan they are buried alive and this a fact, don't hate Hitchen for speaking the truth hate and punish those who commit these crimes.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Here is a society where rape is not a crime. It is a punishment. Women can be sentenced to be raped, by tribal and religious kangaroo courts, if even a rumor of their immodesty brings shame on their menfolk. In such an obscenely distorted context, the counterpart term to shame—which is the noble word “honor”—becomes most commonly associated with the word “killing.” Moral courage consists of the willingness to butcher your own daughter.

If the most elemental of human instincts becomes warped in this bizarre manner, other morbid symptoms will disclose themselves as well. Thus, President Asif Ali Zardari cringes daily...A man so lacking in pride—indeed lacking in manliness—will seek desperately to compensate in other ways...

..if Pakistan were a person, he (and it would have to be a he) would have to be completely humorless, paranoid, insecure, eager to take offense, and suffering from self-righteousness, self-pity, and self-hatred. That last triptych of vices is intimately connected. The self-righteousness comes from the claim to represent a religion: the very name “Pakistan” is an acronym of Punjab, Afghanistan, Kashmir, and so forth, the resulting word in the Urdu language meaning “Land of the Pure.” The self-pity derives from the sad fact that the country has almost nothing else to be proud of: virtually barren of achievements and historically based on the amputation and mutilation of India in 1947 and its own self-mutilation in Bangladesh. The self-hatred is the consequence of being pathetically, permanently mendicant: an abject begging-bowl country that is nonetheless run by a super-rich and hyper-corrupt Punjabi elite. As for paranoia: This not so hypothetical Pakistani would also be a hardened anti-Semite, moaning with pleasure at the butchery of Daniel Pearl and addicted to blaming his self-inflicted woes on the all-powerful Jews...

This Hitchens guy sounds like he is having a "hysterical pregnancy".

I can't remember reading any other article with so many ad hominem attacks.

 

[iPhone]

@porus
When the writer begins his rant with, "here is a society where rape is not a crime but punishment....."
What do you think he's talking about, who he's talking about.

He's talkin about the Pakistani society of 180 million. His entire piece is as disgusting a generalization of Pakistani society as a crime of rape itself.

You fail to see it because of..... whatever agenda you have, but the rest here see it just as its written, a disgusting racist article.

 

[ice_man]

BBC News - Afghanistan: Obama orders withdrawal of 33,000 troops

USA IS GOING! FUTURE OF AFGHNISTAN will again be left to the afghanis...and today obama said pakistan aided immensely in breaking the back of al qaeda!

once USA goes terriorsm in South Asia will seize....

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That sometimes occur in NW Pakistan? You have conveniently ignored all those cases that happen every second week in southern Punjab in which a woman is gang raped and paraded naked at the behest of local punchayat and then blaming the Pashtun tribes who live in a more egalitarian and democratic society. There are many areas in Punjab where people are far more backward then those Pashtuns living in the tribal areas.

Horrific acts such as those occur in almost every nation in South Asia - why single out Pakistan alone for criticizm on this count, and then use the argument to malign the entire nation of 180 million?

 

[Guest01]

A scathing view of Pakistan but not justly so. The majority of Pakistanis struggle to make ends meet every day. The interests of these people is not represented in the government. The government is dominated by the land owning elite and this has been the way since the inception of Pakistan. These land owners make sure to stuff any measures that would empower the people and education is a big threat to them. The honour killing Hitchens speaks of occurs in only a small sliver of the country and illiteracy is the main reason behind it.
As for calling Pakistan an untrustworthy ally , well I find that comment nauseating. Pakistan has lost more in this war than all the allied losses combined. The government has gone against the popular sentiment , forgoing the safety and well being of the people. Our economy is in tatters and the state of security of the common person is non-existent. We would have been much better off without this war. We have lost so much more than we have gained

You wrote level-headedly even in the face of quite scathing criticism. However there is something that I read a lot and I want to disprove that fallacy as I deem it to be a impression of Deciet.

Pakistan joining the war on terror against taliban and al-quaida was not a selfless act of benevelonce. The decision was actually mired with the fear and greed of the army to not lose its power in pakistan. This war or for that matter the strategic assets were never a choice of the common man that you alluded to above. All these decisions have been the privy of either the army or the elite (we all know who).

Even though you may look at it as being altruistic, but the joining in on the war on terror was nothing even close to that. The real reason was for the army (then mussharraf) to save its rule in pakistan. Also there was so much for the pakistani army to hide. The prodigy had gone out of the limits and the master was about to be held accountable for that. What else could be a better disguise for the crook if not joining the investigation. So joining the war on terror was a decision motivated more by saving the collective pakistani army generals's hides rather than a sudden change of heart. This is evident of the return of the colors and the spots over later years in the form of protection of strategic assets. The army started to do what it always did the best. Hence if you want to count the dead in pakistan having joined this war on terror, please do not overlook the alternate possible culmination of things had pakistan not joined the war on terror then.

That will put the number of sacrifices as claimed in perspective.

 

[somebozo]

Beware of such useless but dangerous fictions they help shape the future generation minds..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

@ Solomon,

rape is a crime in Pakistan. a very punishable one. If you are making reference to mukhtaran mai (who is now a celebrity in the west) -- it was her village council in some rural area where the punishment was metted out. This is not state policy. Our media did outcry, and several suspects were remanded --one of whom is serving a life sentence i believe

 

[Guest01]

Exactly right, if this hate filled allegory - would have been written against people of the Semite persuasion - then you would get the western world in a tizzy. But speak of Muslims like this and you get indians jumping up and down.

The reference in the article is to the pakistanis, army and elite as being dysfunctional etc. Not for muslims. You are misleading here.

 

[Guest01]

Christopher Hitchens extrapolates half-truths that plague the tribal region and their backwardness onto the entire country of Pakistan. He raises the issues like honor killings, rape, "kangaroo courts", etc that sometimes occur in NW Pakistan and tribal region where many of the nations (societal wise) primitive people live not to mention where many Afghani primitives live as well.

So then knowing this he starts off his article with "Here is a society" Christopher Hitchens is unfairly and unjustly extrapolating and generalizing the situation that sometime arise in the primitive parts of the country onto the entire country and society of Pakistan.

If the response that qadri got is to go by, then i would be careful of redoubting the allegations as not being inimical to the pakistani society.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

If the response that qadri got is to go by, then i would be careful of redoubting the allegations as not being inimical to the pakistani society.

really?? and the actions of a few even hundred people have effect on 180 million people?

so going by your logic (or lack thereof) --- the actions of groups like Sang Parivar --who are known to discriminate (sometimes violently) against non-hindu groups are representative of all india.....all indians are religiously intolerant, women-beating animals.


noted...

 

[Guest01]

really?? and the actions of a few even hundred people have effect on 180 million people?

so going by your logic (or lack thereof) --- the actions of groups like Sang Parivar --who are known to discriminate (sometimes violently) against non-hindu groups are representative of all india.....all indians are religiously intolerant, women-beating animals.


noted...

Ah.. the contrarian argument even in the light of so much facts floating everywhere including the following ! (?)

U.S. Image in Pakistan Falls No Further Following bin Laden Killing | Pew Global Attitudes Project

See for particular the support for extremism, the response on the raid on OBL and also the thought of the Pakistani on the street about the real enemy even when the situation is what it is currently in Pakistan. Remarkable is also the change in the support for Army action against the terrorists.

All this is unique to the Pakistan and no use even trying to draw a parrallel anywhere. It is mere distractionary tactics to digress from the factual and real discussion and nothing else.

But then, you are surely entitled to your opinion of everything even when it is farthest from truth.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

How could it be “worse” if we listened to the brave Afghans, like their former intelligence chief Amrullah Saleh, who have been telling us for years that we are fighting the war in the wrong country?

yea, Attack Iran and Burma now (Hollywood pawnage against them is not enough), no wait, attack Venezuela, that Hugo Chavez is a communist and he hates America. Wrong again sorry, Brave Saleh is suggesting to attack Pakistan for being a neighbour of world’s top poppy producing country and hosting over 6 Million Afghan refugees for 3 decades now most of whom are now living in almost all Pakistani cities and would rather not go back because the “brave” lackeys of northern alliance will strip them off any belongings in the name of nation building.

If we continue to deny or avoid this inescapable fact, then we really are dishonoring, as well as further endangering, our exemplary young volunteers.

right, that’s what Americans class as exemplary,

Don’t click here to check out some of these exemplary young volunteers if you have a weak heart.

Afghan leader condemns US


Behind the American 'Kill Team' in Afghanistan - World news - South and Central Asia - Afghanistan - msnbc.com

Why was the raid on Abbottabad so rightly called “daring”? Because it had to be conducted under the radar of the Pakistani Air Force, which “scrambled” its jets and would have brought the Black Hawks down if it could. That this is true is bad enough in all conscience. That we should still be submitting ourselves to lectures and admonitions from General Kayani is beyond shameful.

yea, cry me a river and then step out of your house and attack an interracial cross dressing gay couple that hates America for its freedom fries.

The self-righteousness comes from the claim to represent a religion: the very name “Pakistan” is an acronym of Punjab, Afghanistan, Kashmir, and so forth, the resulting word in the Urdu language meaning “Land of the Pure.”

no you ignorant bigot, the word Pakistan is driven from the provinces and state of Kashmir, Afghanistan was an independent county and never part of parting British empire. Then again if people like you confuse Afghanistan and Pakistan for a middle eastern “Arab” country then there is no point in arguing.

The self-hatred is the consequence of being pathetically, permanently mendicant: an abject begging-bowl country that is nonetheless run by a super-rich and hyper-corrupt Punjabi elite.

wrong again, it’s the Baloch and Sindhi Land lords that are super/ hyper rich (Zardari being one of them) not the Punjabis. Mr Bigot is being OTT again describing self criticism as self hatred. Nothing is a holy cow or sacred in Pakistan. Army, Clergy, feudal lords and politicians etc all get their share of criticism when its due. Unlike America where you dare not talk against the army and the patriot act is new name for American freedom.

.if Pakistan were a person,….

if this Christopher Hitchens was a part of a body, it has to be an @rse nothing else, but a constipated with piles and unwashed for a long long time.

if Pakistan were a person, he (and it would have to be a he) would have to be completely humourless, paranoid, insecure, eager to take offence

Eager to take offence yea, so eager that humble French fries were renamed and France became a hate object in the over Zealous American media for merely objecting to war on terror .
As for paranoia, well it applies to America far too well, its been over 66 years the WW2 ended but America has been and still is at war and “has” to find a villain or antagonist to keep its warmongering paranoid mentality feeding.

Indeed when the American saying goes there is no Macdonald without McDonnell Douglas then its not hard to explain this paranoia (that the world is out to get us) and the most horrific scenario of this American mindset is what if, what if there is no left to hate or attack? That will be a doomsday.

This not so hypothetical Pakistani would also be a hardened anti-Semite, moaning with pleasure at the butchery of Daniel Pearl and addicted to blaming his self-inflicted woes on the all-powerful Jews

this is not so hypothetical that people like Christopher Hitchens (note that I am not generalising it on all Americans) would be so hardened racists and bigots that their hatred for Mexicans/ Latinos knows no bounds, they would talk at length and loath the Pakistanis and Arabs but they will bypass the history of forming the South of USA specially Texas, and Sacha Baron Cohen exposed the American Anti-Semitism for everyone to see not once but many times. The death of Daniel pearl is mourned by us Pakistanis just like we mourn the deaths of 911, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Palestine, Kashmir, Iraq and India without discriminating who was the victim and who was the culprit. Unlike people like Christopher, who will exhibit criminal silence when one of his friendly countries or his American soldiers will make gleeful footage of their killings and decapitating bodies of the victims as trophies.

Just reading a few sentences of the article made me get up from sleep and I came back to read it again. This is a 20 KT H Bomb of an article. This article is so potent that someone in this forum will just go mad and shoot himself.

as far you and other troll life stylers are concerned all I can say is if you had even a fragment of decency then you wont have made this comment. With so many deaths of the innocent civilians in this region you are not only being insensitive to Afghan and Pakistanis but also to Indians too. Take your grin with you to any terror site and I hope someone with a mallet relieves you of your teeth.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The reference in the article is to the pakistanis, army and elite as being dysfunctional etc. Not for muslims. You are misleading here.

Does not excuse his hate filled diatribe any more than had he been generalizing 'all Muslims'.

Denigrating and generalizing a 180 million people instead of a billion people does not make him any less of a bigot and hatemonger.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ah.. the contrarian argument even in the light of so much facts floating everywhere including the following ! (?)

U.S. Image in Pakistan Falls No Further Following bin Laden Killing | Pew Global Attitudes Project

See for particular the support for extremism,

What is the 'support for extremism'? The poll would suggest it is in the teens for most organizations, but the poll leaves out a major question with respect to whethe people believe those organizations commit terrorism. A better poll question (one that has been asked in prior polls) would be to question support for attacks against civilians/terrorism etc., rather than relying on opinion about personalities/entities, that many people may see as innocent of the accusations leveled at them in the media.

the response on the raid on OBL and also the thought of the Pakistani on the street about the real enemy even when the situation is what it is currently in Pakistan. Remarkable is also the change in the support for Army action against the terrorists.

I don't see anything wrong with opposing the raid on OBL - it was illegal, a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty and a betrayal by the US. And given the distrust of the US, the more the Army and the GoP are associated with conducting military operations at the behest of the US, the lower the support is going to be for those military operations.

All this is unique to the Pakistan and no use even trying to draw a parrallel anywhere. It is mere distractionary tactics to digress from the factual and real discussion and nothing else.

All this is unique to Pakistan because not every country has an invasion, occupation and war going on. Not every country has the US conducting illegal drone strikes and military raids in their nation.

But then, you are surely entitled to your opinion of everything even when it is farthest from truth.

At the moment the only thing that is 'further from the truth' is Hitchen's hatemongering diatribe and your fallacious defence of it.