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Christopher Hitchens Goes Nuclear On Pakistan

This Hitchens guy sounds like he is having a "hysterical pregnancy". :lol:

I can't remember reading any other article with so many ad hominem attacks.

read his biography, read some anecdotes, and definitely read some of the things he is quoted as having said.....


it is EXTREMELY difficult to take anything he says seriously. The guys been a drunk for 30 Goddamned years; I've previously outlined some things he said.....apparently he has no problem berating people like Mother Teresda and Princess Diana; he discusses women's inferiority ''as comedians'' just to be "a douchebag'' (verbatim)


basically, he has nothing to say. His view on the world is very limited, as his credibility as a ''journalist''

and that certainly also applies to some members here as well who - as AM put it - ''fallaciously defen[d] [him and his likes]''. --especially those falling under the bharti category who probably didnt even read the articles in its entirety and probably didnt even do research on the guy before jumping to another (failed) opportunity to judge Pakistan and Pakistanis.


(typical)
 
Horrific acts such as those occur in almost every nation in South Asia - why single out Pakistan alone for criticizm on this count, and then use the argument to malign the entire nation of 180 million?

Every single nation in South Asia ? Arent you doing the same crime you want him not to do - generalizing ?

And no not in any other country in South Asia you have the victim punished for adultery.


really?? and the actions of a few even hundred people have effect on 180 million people?

so going by your logic (or lack thereof) --- the actions of groups like Sang Parivar --who are known to discriminate (sometimes violently) against non-hindu groups are representative of all india.....all indians are religiously intolerant, women-beating animals.
noted...

Except that we don't have lawyers showering rose-petals on the killer of a Governer.

Please stop bringing in India into this thread on pakistan.

Again Pakistanis must understand that they have a very negative perception among the international community , rightly or wrongly, and as shown by various events over the decades, for Pakistan it is guilty until proven innocent. No amount of words, bar, actions can remove that perception. And perception is everything they say !
 
And no not in any other country in South Asia you have the victim punished for adultery.

ever been to Indian Punjab? the Sikhs even do this in Britain. I wont say about rest of India because I don’t know but in Britain , Sikh women have been brutally murdered for dishonouring their families of course you suffer from selective memory syndrome so I don’t blame you.



Except that we don't have lawyers showering rose-petals on the killer of a Governer.

Yea you do it better, you keep mass mudereres as Chief Ministers, No you don’t have lawyers showering rose petals on a murderer but actually you got someone called Modi who happens to be the CM a man behind the mass murder of thousands of innocent Muslims and yet he enjoys the support and appreciation of thousands of fanatics and apologists

Please stop bringing in India into this thread on pakistan.

please stop using Afghan soil against Pakistan

Again Pakistanis must understand that they have a very negative perception among the international community ,


Correction, its Israel and America that lead the most hated and loathed nations. Not just in the Islamic world but in case of US its policies and interferences are detested rest of the Americas and far east including North Korea, Vietnam and China.

rightly or wrongly, and as shown by various events over the decades, for Pakistan it is guilty until proven innocent. No amount of words, bar, actions can remove that perception. And perception is everything they say !

As far as the perception from the likes of you and that sad ANALyst Christopher is concerned, we give it as much importance as much Israel gives to UN resolutions. The world you are quoting is divided into two parts, one that is least involved, concerned and interested in what is happening in this region and the rest of the world that has its own designs ( e.g. America and India) is least qualified to pass judgement about Pakistan when the former is an obsessive compulsive invader of countries and the later has been involved in the subversive activities against Pakistan and is routinely mentioned for its human rights records against its own people.
 
Again Pakistanis must understand that they have a very negative perception among the international community , rightly or wrongly, and as shown by various events over the decades, for Pakistan it is guilty until proven innocent. No amount of words, bar, actions can remove that perception. And perception is everything they say !



what perception? One set by the international media driven only by ratings, sensationalism and bigotry as a driving tool? No thanks
and some pseudo analysts and journalists who lack the knowledge of the place and people they so malevolently decide to judge? I will just cite few examples from our sports and music stars.

Our sports heroes have already introduced Pakistan to the world in a way that Christopher chooses to ignore they include Khans of Squash, Jahangir is UN ambassador for political affairs and then our current time tennis player Aisam Ul Haq who made an emotional speech much to the applause to the US crowd. Maybe bigotry blinded Mr Christopher and wishing Americans well was not enough for him unless Aisam has had made a personal speech in his honour. (I purposefully left cricket aside as to date it mostly remains a common wealth affair).

Late Nusrat fateh Ali Khan yet another Pakistani had fan following from Japan to Europe (and I am talking about local serious followers). Pakistani art and sports have played their part in introducing us to the world, but if the media in the current time chooses to feed us only death and misery then it is up to the recipient to look around before making an opinion instead of a half-a-rsed judgement based on what fox news and some sad bigot chooses to broad cast or blog.

as far as this Christopher, CNN ,Fox news and their ilk are concerned, they can shove that perception up their neither regions that never see the sun light.

For us Pakistanis what accounts the most is the gratitude from the family and friends of the Indian hostages that have been freed up by Ansar Barney and our Indian friend has so beautifully summed it all up when I complained that the western media is choosing to ignore a positive story about Pakistan.

True that about BBC. But why do you need BBC, when pakistan got the attention of 1 billion people through its good deeds.

This generous action wont be forgotten that easily. Thank you once more!!
 
ever been to Indian Punjab? the Sikhs even do this in Britain. I wont say about rest of India because I don’t know but in Britain , Sikh women have been brutally murdered for dishonouring their families of course you suffer from selective memory syndrome so I don’t blame you.

Honor killin is different from Raping and accusing the rape victim of adultery.

Yea you do it better, you keep mass mudereres as Chief Ministers, No you don’t have lawyers showering rose petals on a murderer but actually you got someone called Modi who happens to be the CM a man behind the mass murder of thousands of innocent Muslims and yet he enjoys the support and appreciation of thousands of fanatics and apologists

Lot of factual errors arising due to reading Urdu papers too much that I dont know where to start.

Firstly - it was a riot started by the Muslims by burning 60 Hindus in Godhra
Secondly - the riots were contained in 3 days flat considering that the state had no Army/Paramilitary to help the police in law enforcement.
Thirdly - the Muslims too indulged in rioting in areas they were in a majority
fourth- the official count released by GoI (not by State Govt) is 750 Muslims and 310 Hindus...Not the thousands or lakhs.
fifth - A case is till going on and Modi ji was not directly involved in the riots for people not to elect him.

Phew....

please stop using Afghan soil against Pakistan

Prove the to the international community India is harming Pak through Afghanistan and say that. Mere words don't cut ice especially when the utterer is Pakistan.

orrection, its Israel and America that lead the most hated and loathed nations. Not just in the Islamic world but in case of US its policies and interferences are detested rest of the Americas and far east including North Korea, Vietnam and China.

International community doesnt stop with North Korea, Iran, China (such illustrious company). The Islamic world is a puppet of the US and dont ever place Vietnam and China in the same plate. Strange things are happening ! US may be loathed, but they are feared and their word obeyed by many in the world.

As far as the perception from the likes of you and that sad ANALyst Christopher is concerned, we give it as much importance as much Israel gives to UN resolutions. The world you are quoting is divided into two parts, one that is least involved, concerned and interested in what is happening in this region and the rest of the world that has its own designs ( e.g. America and India) is least qualified to pass judgement about Pakistan when the former is an obsessive compulsive invader of countries and the later has been involved in the subversive activities against Pakistan and is routinely mentioned for its human rights records against its own people.

See, you may/may not give importance to the perceptions. But then the perception will gradually be decreasing and who will suffer. Certainly not the world. It is the common Pakistanis who get discriminated, who get stopped and checked randomly that suffer. So the onus is on Pakistan to reduce that perception. it is not a choice that Pakistan can make.
 
what perception? One set by the international media driven only by ratings, sensationalism and bigotry as a driving tool? No thanks
and some pseudo analysts and journalists who lack the knowledge of the place and people they so malevolently decide to judge? I will just cite few examples from our sports and music stars.

Our sports heroes have already introduced Pakistan to the world in a way that Christopher chooses to ignore they include Khans of Squash, Jahangir is UN ambassador for political affairs and then our current time tennis player Aisam Ul Haq who made an emotional speech much to the applause to the US crowd. Maybe bigotry blinded Mr Christopher and wishing Americans well was not enough for him unless Aisam has had made a personal speech in his honour. (I purposefully left cricket aside as to date it mostly remains a common wealth affair).

Late Nusrat fateh Ali Khan yet another Pakistani had fan following from Japan to Europe (and I am talking about local serious followers). Pakistani art and sports have played their part in introducing us to the world, but if the media in the current time chooses to feed us only death and misery then it is up to the recipient to look around before making an opinion instead of a half-a-rsed judgement based on what fox news and some sad bigot chooses to broad cast or blog.

as far as this Christopher, CNN ,Fox news and their ilk are concerned, they can shove that perception up their neither regions that never see the sun light.

For us Pakistanis what accounts the most is the gratitude from the family and friends of the Indian hostages that have been freed up by Ansar Barney and our Indian friend has so beautifully summed it all up when I complained that the western media is choosing to ignore a positive story about Pakistan.

Arey let me put it bluntly - go to the west and ask some one what they think of Pakistan. I bet it wont be Nusrat Khan that will come to their mind.

Instead of aggressively countering that perception by solid actions on ground , simply ignoring it as CIA/Mossad conspiracy will not hurt anyone except the Pakistanis themselves.
 
let me put it bluntly
I cant help anyone who is obsessed with how west chooses to see us. Like I said earlier, it is up to the recipient to thinker over glass half full or empty.

And yea your Modi “Ji” has had his hands in it. Don’t distort the figures over 2000 Muslims were killed.
The burning of trains was a ploy and the trained hindu extremists were on stand by, the moment the news were out they went on rampage. Strange how you are justifying the murder of your Indian Muslims who had no role in the train attack.

US may be loathed, but they are feared and their word obeyed by many in the world.

just sums up your mentality of @rse licking the biggest bully. so might is right eh?
 
let me put it bluntly
I cant help anyone who is obsessed with how west chooses to see us. Like I said earlier, it is up to the recipient to thinker over glass half full or empty.

Actually in this case it is up to the Pakistanis to convince the world they mean business with all seriousness. Think calmly due to this negative perception who is suffering - West or Pakistan ? Who gets discriminated - Europeans/Americans or Pakistanis ?

I leave it here because you are bent on thinking that what the world thinks has nothing on the effect of Pakistan. Sadly it is not so.

And yea your Modi has had his hands in it. Dondistort the figures over 2000 Muslims were killed.
The burning of trains was a ploy and the trained hindu extremists were on stand by, the moment the news were out they went on rampage. Strange how you are justifying the murder of your Indian Muslims who had no role in the train attack.

Urdu media overdose ? Do you also believe Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh ?

'Post-Godhra toll: 254 Hindus, 790 Muslims' - Express India 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus (+60 burnt) are the toll as informed in the Parliament by Congress minister. So I cant help if you think to the contrary. Also as for the conspiracy bullshyt you spouted I am appalled at and frightened at if a sane Pakistani can give into such a foolish dogmas, what the fanatics are all about. According to you all Muslims can do no harm, its the infidels who always harm. Carry on.

just sums up your mentality of @rse licking the biggest bully. so might is right eh?

Words do nothing, actions show everything and we know who licked the @rse of US for the past 60 years. Dont try me.
 
The fear is that one of those weapons will end up in the hands of terrorist organizations, which will in turn detonate one of those weapons in London or Berlin or Washington or New York.
What bs is this? The author doesn't seem to know what the heck he's talking about! Does he for a moment think that a nuclear weapon(s) will be just whisked away in a pickup truck, taken to the mountains of Afghanistan, transported to New York/London by some means only he knows and placed nonchalantly on Times Square where some clown sitting 20 miles away will press a red button and....BOOOOM!!

This utter tripe needs to be shoved down the sinkhole! This is sensationalism at its best. The only thing that can happen is if insiders from one of the nuclear reactors help some terrorists obtain fissile material in small quantities over a period of time. This can then be transported in small airtight containers and a 'dirty bomb' assembled near the target locations itself. As to how to make one just requires a Google search!

And remember, nuclear weapons are NEVER kept assembled. Their parts are kept at a number of secret locations at any point in time. To make them operational, all these parts would need to be assembled and only then can they be deployed.

So all this talk of nuclear weapons falling into the hands of terrorists for blowing up New York, London, Berlin and so on is utter nonsense!
 
What bs is this? The author doesn't seem to know what the heck he's talking about! Does he for a moment think that a nuclear weapon(s) will be just whisked away in a pickup truck, taken to the mountains of Afghanistan, transported to New York/London by some means only he knows and placed nonchalantly on Times Square where some clown sitting 20 miles away will press a red button and....BOOOOM!!

This utter tripe needs to be shoved down the sinkhole! This is sensationalism at its best. The only thing that can happen is if insiders from one of the nuclear reactors help some terrorists obtain fissile material in small quantities over a period of time. This can then be transported in small airtight containers and a 'dirty bomb' assembled near the target locations itself. As to how to make one just requires a Google search!

And remember, nuclear weapons are NEVER kept assembled. Their parts are kept at a number of secret locations at any point in time. To make them operational, all these parts would need to be assembled and only then can they be deployed.

So all this talk of nuclear weapons falling into the hands of terrorists for blowing up New York, London, Berlin and so on is utter nonsense!


well said mate
they make it seem like nuclear material and the equipment is like snacks and drinks that a shop lifter can shove under a shirt and nick on every visit and then assemble it to make a bomb out of it
most of these experts might not even know what Uranium looks like and how it needs to be handled and under what conditions. But how cares about the facts when media knows how to sell sensationalism there are people willing to absorb it.
Remember companies selling masks and chemicals suits during terror alerts in USA? They made a killing and it was this media hype and hysteria spread by the likes of Fox news that helped some companies that were about to go bust back into making profits and their directors were laughing their heads off.
 
Words do nothing, actions show everything and we know who licked the @rse of US for the past 60 years. Dont try me.

words do a lot my dear when it comes to you.
very insecure and defensive you are
you do put an argument but you miss the bleeding obvious on purpose or by design I cant tell.

You seem to be promoting the respect and obedience of someone not because he is morally correct but because he is all powerful and then you get upset if I term it as @rse licking.
Your hit at Pakistan was very cute. As this thread suggests and many different polls and articles say, Pakistanis loathe American policies just like the rest of the world even Europe. But that doesn’t matter to you so I am ok with that you should always follow the biggest bully because he has power.

Ok I let you be.
 
Are we wrong about Pakistan? - Telegraph

It was my first evening in Pakistan. My hosts, a Lahore banker and his charming wife, wanted to show me the sights, so they took me to a restaurant on the roof of a town house in the Old City.

My food was delicious, the conversation sparky – and from our vantage point we enjoyed a perfect view of the Badshahi Mosque, which was commissioned by the emperor Aurangzeb in 1671.

It was my first inkling of a problem. I had been dispatched to write a report reflecting the common perception that Pakistan is one of the most backward and savage countries in the world. This attitude has been hard-wired into Western reporting for years and is best summed up by the writing of the iconic journalist Christopher Hitchens. Shortly before he died last December, Hitchens wrote a piece in Vanity Fair that bordered on racism.

Pakistan, he said, was “humourless, paranoid, insecure, eager to take offence and suffering from self-righteousness, self-pity and self-hatred”. In summary, asserted Hitchens, Pakistan was one of the “vilest and most dangerous regions on Earth”.

Since my first night in that Lahore restaurant I have travelled through most of Pakistan, got to know its cities, its remote rural regions and even parts of the lawless north. Of course there is some truth in Hitchens’s brash assertions.

Since 2006 alone, more than 14,000 Pakistani civilians have been killed in terrorist attacks. The Pakistan political elite is corrupt, self-serving, hypocritical and cowardly – as Pakistanis themselves are well aware. And a cruel intolerance is entering public discourse, as the appalling murder last year of minorities minister Shahbaz Bhatti after he spoke out for Christians so graphically proves. Parts of the country have become impassable except at risk of kidnap or attack.

Yet the reality is far more complex. Indeed, the Pakistan that is barely documented in the West – and that I have come to know and love – is a wonderful, warm and fabulously hospitable country. And every writer who (unlike Hitchens), has ventured out of the prism of received opinion and the suffocating five-star hotels, has ended up celebrating rather than denigrating Pakistan.

A paradox is at work. Pakistan regularly experiences unspeakable tragedy. The most recent suicide bombing, in a busy market in northwestern Pakistan, claimed 32 lives and came only a month after another bomb blast killed at least 35 people in the Khyber tribal district on January 10. But suffering can also release something inside the human spirit. During my extensive travels through this country, I have met people of truly amazing moral stature.

Take Seema Aziz, 59, whom I met at another Lahore dinner party, and who refuses to conform to the Western stereotype of the downtrodden Pakistani female. Like so many Pakistanis, she married young: her husband worked as a manager at an ICI chemical plant. When her three children reached school age, she found herself with lots of time on her hands. And then something struck her.

It was the mid-Eighties, a time when Pakistan seemed captivated by Western fashion. All middle-class young people seemed to be playing pop music, drinking Pepsi and wearing jeans. So together with her family, Seema decided to set up a shop selling only locally manufactured fabrics and clothes.

The business, named Bareeze, did well. Then, in 1988, parts of Pakistan were struck by devastating floods, causing widespread damage and loss of life, including in the village where many of the fabrics sold by Bareeze were made. Seema set out to the flood damaged area to help. Upon arrival, she reached an unexpected conclusion. “We saw that the victims would be able to rebuild their homes quite easily but we noticed that there was no school. Without education, we believed that there would be no chance for the villagers, that they would have no future and no hope.”

So Seema set about collecting donations to build a village school. This was the beginning of the Care Foundation, which today educates 155,000 underprivileged children a year in and around Lahore, within 225 schools.

I have visited some of these establishments and they have superb discipline and wonderful teaching – all of them are co-educational. The contrast with the schools provided by the government, with poorly-motivated teachers and lousy equipment, is stark. One mullah did take exception to the mixed education at one of the local schools, claiming it was contrary to Islamic law. Seema responded by announcing that she would close down the school. The following day, she found herself petitioned by hundreds of parents, pleading with her to keep it open. She complied. Already Care has provided opportunities for millions of girls and boys from poor backgrounds, who have reached adulthood as surgeons, teachers and business people.

I got the sense that her project, though already huge, was just in its infancy. Seema told me: “Our systems are now in place so that we can educate up to one million children a year.” With a population of over 170 million, even one million makes a relatively small difference in Pakistan. Nevertheless, the work of Care suggests how easy it would be to transform Pakistan from a relatively backward nation into a south-east Asian powerhouse.

Certainly, it is a country scarred by cynicism and corruption, where rich men do not hesitate to steal from the poor, and where natural events such as earthquakes and floods can bring about limitless human suffering. But the people show a resilience that is utterly humbling in the face of these disasters.

In the wake of the floods of 2009 I travelled deep into the Punjab to the village of Bhangar to gauge the extent of the tragedy. Just a few weeks earlier everything had been washed away by eight-feet deep waters. Walking into this ruined village I saw a well-built man, naked to the waist, stirring a gigantic pot. He told me that his name was Khalifa and that he was preparing a rice dinner for the hundred or more survivors of the floods.

The following morning I came across Khalifa, once again naked to the waist and sweating heavily. Pools of stagnant water lay around. This time he was hard at work with a shovel, hacking out a new path into the village to replace the one that had been washed away.

A little later that morning I went to the cemetery to witness the burial of a baby girl who had died of a gastric complaint during the night. And there was Khalifa at work, this time as a grave digger.

Khalifa was a day labourer who was lucky to earn $2 (£1.26) a day at the best of times. To prejudiced Western commentators, he may have appeared a symbol of poverty, bigotry and oppression. In reality, like the courageous volunteers I met working at an ambulance centre in Karachi last year, a city notorious for its gangland violence, he represents the indomitable spirit of the Pakistani people, even when confronted with a scale of adversity that would overpower most people in the West.

As I’ve discovered, this endurance expresses itself in almost every part of life. Consider the Pakistan cricket team which was humiliated beyond endurance after the News of the World revelations about “spot-fixing” during the England tour of 2010. Yet, with the culprits punished, a new captain, Misbah-ul-Haq has engineered a revival. In January I flew to Dubai to witness his team humiliate England in a three-match series that marked a fairy-tale triumph.

Beyond that there is the sheer beauty of the country. Contrary to popular opinion, much of Pakistan is perfectly safe to visit so long as elementary precautions are taken, and, where necessary, a reliable local guide secured. I have made many friends here, and they live normal, fulfilled family lives. Indeed there is no reason at all why foreigners should not holiday in some of Pakistan’s amazing holiday locations, made all the better by the almost complete absence of Western tourists.

Take Gilgit-Baltistan in the north, where three of the world’s greatest mountain ranges – the Hindu Kush, the Himalayas and the Karakorams — meet. This area, easily accessible by plane from the Pakistani capital of Islamabad, is a paradise for climbers, hikers, fishermen and botanists. K2 – the world’s second-highest mountain – is in Gilgit, as are some of the largest glaciers outside the polar regions.

Go to Shandur, 12,000ft above sea level, which every year hosts a grand polo tournament between the Gilgit and Chitral polo teams in a windswept ground flanked by massive mountain ranges. Or travel south to Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa, cradle of the Indus Valley civilisation which generated the world’s first urban culture, parallel with Egypt and ancient Sumer, approximately 5,000 years ago.

Of course, some areas of Pakistan are dangerous. A profile of Karachi – Pakistan’s largest city and commercial capital – in Time magazine earlier this year revealed that more than 1,000 people died in 2011 in street battles fought between heavily armed supporters of the city’s main political parties. Karachi is plagued by armed robbery, kidnapping and murder and, in November last year, was ranked 216 out of 221 cities in a personal-safety survey carried out by the financial services firm Mercer.

But isn’t it time we acknowledged our own responsibility for some of this chaos? In recent years, the Nato occupation of Afghanistan has dragged Pakistan towards civil war. Consider this: suicide bombings were unknown in Pakistan before Osama bin Laden’s attack on the Twin Towers in September 2001. Immediately afterwards, President Bush rang President Musharraf and threatened to “bomb Pakistan into the stone age” if Musharraf refused to co-operate in the so-called War on Terror.

The Pakistani leader complied, but at a terrible cost. Effectively the United States president was asking him to condemn his country to civil war by authorising attacks on Pashtun tribes who were sympathetic to the Afghan Taliban. The consequences did not take long, with the first suicide strike just six weeks later, on October 28.

Many write of how dangerous Pakistan has become. More remarkable, by far, is how safe it remains, thanks to the strength and good humour of its people. The image of the average Pakistani citizen as a religious fanatic or a terrorist is simply a libel, the result of ignorance and prejudice.

The prejudice against Pakistan dates back to before 9/11. It is summed up best by the England cricketer Ian Botham’s notorious comment that “Pakistan is the sort of place every man should send his mother-in-law to, for a month, all expenses paid”. Some years after Botham’s outburst, the Daily Mirror had the inspired idea of sending Botham’s mother-in-law Jan Waller to Pakistan – all expenses paid – to see what she made of the country.

Unlike her son-in-law, Mrs Waller had the evidence of her eyes before her: “The country and its people have absolutely blown me away,” said the 68-year-old grandmother.

After a trip round Lahore’s old town she said: “I could not have imagined seeing some of the sights I have seen today. They were indefinable and left me feeling totally humbled and totally privileged.” She concluded: “All I would say is: ‘Mothers-in-law of the world, unite and go to Pakistan. Because you’ll love it’. Honestly!”

Mrs Waller is telling the truth. And if you don’t believe me, please visit and find out for yourself.
 
hitchens has been shilling for neo cons ever since 9/11, this is or was the latest episode, his anger is the type of anger you have when you call a LIAR a LIAR, they dont like being exposed and outed so they spew venom at the accuser, well it works the same with hitchens and pakistan, he knows the pakistanis know his and the neo cons game so he cuts to the chase and goes for the proverbial jugular, quite amusing to see a so called champion of the oppressed spew venom and hate.
 
Wasn't he the same person who said backwardness is Gandhi gift to India.

whatever, i'd hate to be this guy's opponent in a debate.

thats the thing, he relies on charm.
he might be witter, funnier or more eloquent then you but that doesnt mean he has a point, or even the right point.

you see the americans fall for his whole english maverick act, thats why he went there, no one cares about him in england!

and i am not a fan of galloweay but remember when they had a debate, he become a lot less articulate when against a powerful speaker.
 
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