Chinese PM Visits Bangladesh

[Tiki Tam Tam]

China has a strong influence on Burma and I don’t think that Burma will have any objection on such route as they will be getting transit money.

I think you are day dreaming!!

Or what they say in the Army, you are not appreciating the situation, but situating the appreciation!!

US has tremendous clout in Pakistan, but is Pakistan US' handmaiden?

The majority of Bangladeshis are religious. My experience with them is always positive obviously we can’t judge their opinion with some posts but no one suggests to sacrifice their freedom; they can maintain their independent status.

You really think the are all very religious?

Maybe.

But what is the connection of religion with what they want to do and achieve?

 

[salman nedian]

I think you are day dreaming!!

Or what they say in the Army, you are not appreciating the situation, but situating the appreciation!!

US has tremendous clout in Pakistan, but is Pakistan US' handmaiden?



You really think the are all very religious?

Maybe.

But what is the connection of religion with what they want to do and achieve?

Sir,
Kindly tell me what objection will Burma have on providing such route?


Pakistan came into being on the name of Islam; the Muslims of Bengal had a great share in the formation of Pakistan and I believe still they have the same Islamic brotherhood in their hearts.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sir,
Kindly tell me what objection will Burma have on providing such route?


Pakistan came into being on the name of Islam; the Muslims of Bengal had a great share in the formation of Pakistan and I believe still they have the same Islamic brotherhood in their hearts.

China has good equation with Burma.

India too has a good equation, even if not as good as China.

Therefore, would Burma like to upset the same to accommodate the desires of Pakistan?

It should also be remembered that Burma is not too enthused over Mos.lems. I am sure you are aware how they treat the Rohingyas!

Yes, the Bengali Mosl.ems had a great share in creating East Pakistan based on religion. Mujib was also a great exponent for the same and played a major role as Surahwardy's assistant in what in history is known as the "Great Calcutta Killings"!

Isn't it surprising the same man and the Mos.lems of East Pakistan were disillusioned?

You may say India was responsible. If so, then your contention that they consider Islam over being Bengalis and inferior to none falls flat on the face!! I maybe wrong, do correct me.

The million dollar question is who disillusioned them and they were all very religious men who believed in Islam to the hilt!!

Now you say that they are for reunion or affiliation with Pakistan because they are religious. Rather Odd!

As far as BD posters are concerned, remember how a Razaakar was pretending to represent the BDs on this forum?

Razaakar are pro Pakistan and Pakistan does not recognise their existence! They are a lost people with no hope!

 

[salman nedian]

China has good equation with Burma.

India too has a good equation, even if not as good as China.

Therefore, would Burma like to upset the same to accommodate the desires of Pakistan?

It should also be remembered that Burma is not too enthused over Mos.lems. I am sure you are aware how they treat the Rohingyas!

It will be beneficial for Burma; they will get transit money, more tourists and strong relations with countries like Pakistan, China and Bangladesh.It is not the question of how they feel about Muslims, the only thing which matters is that they will get benefits.

Yes, the Bengali Mosl.ems had a great share in creating East Pakistan based on religion. Mujib was also a great exponent for the same and played a major role as Surahwardy's assistant in what in history is known as the "Great Calcutta Killings"!

Isn't it surprising the same man and the Mos.lem were disillusioned?

The million dollar question is who disillusioned them and they were all very religious men who believed in Islam to the hilt!!

Now you say that they are for reunion or affiliation with Pakistan because they are religious. Rather Odd!

This is really a good question. I think Muslims of Bengal had too many expectations from the newly created state of Pakistan and at that time they got little emotional as well on Language issue while it was the fact that only Urdu could serve as the national language of Pakistan b/c it is the language of communication.

On our side there were mistakes committed by the politicians and government officials but India played a catalyst role by injecting the material of hatred and since West Pakistan was 1000 miles away hence we could not realize the situation in East Pakistan that was our mistake.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It will be beneficial for Burma; they will get transit money, more tourists and strong relations with countries like Pakistan, China and Bangladesh.It is not the question of how they feel about Muslims, the only thing which matters is that they will get benefits.

By giving a land route to BD through Burma will give them tourists?

Forgive me, I have not understood this!

Burma is an isolationist govt and they don't care about anyone but themselves i.e. the Burmese military.

With due regards, given the negative image of Islam, rightfully or wrongly, everyone is afraid of fundamentalist Islam!

This is really a good question. I think Muslims of Bengal had too many expectations from the newly created state of Pakistan and at that time they got little emotional as well on Language issue while it was the fact that only Urdu could serve as the national language of Pakistan b/c it is the language of communication.

Why should they not have great expectations from Islam? The hype indeed was soul rejuvenating. The word Pakistan itself was - the land of the Pure!!

It is not a lack of communication. Like the Tibetans as in today's context, the Bengalis, whatever be their religion, think highly of their culture and their language. When someone tries to suppress that for a foreign and alien hybrid, they are not ready to accept the same. You people do not understand the Bengali. Religion is not that paramount! If it were so, then Hindu Rabindranath Tagore's song would not be BD's national anthem nor would Kazi Nazrul Islam be a Poet Laureate of west Bengal!

You people won't understand Bengalis.

On our side there were mistakes committed by the politicians and government officials but India played a catalyst role by injecting the material of hatred and since West Pakistan was 1000 miles away hence we could not realize the situation in East Pakistan that was our mistake.

India did not inject hatred. You did it yourself. You did not allow Mujib and the Bengalis their rightful place in the history of Pakistan!

Find scapegoats is of course is a very consoling factor for one's own stupidity!

and now, you are crying over spilt milk!!

 

[salman nedian]

By giving a land route to BD through Burma will give them tourists?

Forgive me, I have not understood this!

Burma is an isolationist govt and they don't care about anyone but themselves i.e. the Burmese military.

With due regards, given the negative image of Islam, rightfully or wrongly, everyone is afraid of fundamentalist Islam!

If there is a Pakistan-China-Burma-Bangladesh land route available than people and tourists will travel and use that track.

Why should they not have great expectations from Islam? The hype indeed was soul rejuvenating. The word Pakistan itself was - the land of the Pure!!

It is not a lack of communication. Like the Tibetans as in today's context, the Bengalis, whatever be their religion, think highly of their culture and their language. When someone tries to suppress that for a foreign and alien hybrid, they are not ready to accept the same. You people do not understand the Bengali. Religion is not that paramount! If it were so, then Hindu Rabindranath Tagore's song would not be BD's national anthem nor would Kazi Nazrul Islam be a Poet Laureate of west Bengal!

You people won't understand Bengalis.

They should have great expectations from Islam. But they were expecting the miracles too early b/c they were suppressed by landlords so they thought that as soon as Pakistan will form their problems will be resolved in a split second but that was not the case b/c Pakistan had to rehabilitate millions of Muhajirs and there were disputes with India so their expectations were too early.

India did not inject hatred. You did it yourself. You did not allow Mujib and the Bengalis their rightful place in the history of Pakistan!

Find scapegoats is of course is a very consoling factor for one's own stupidity!

and now, you are crying over spilt milk!!

No scapegoats at all! We did mistakes and we are accepting them, President Parvaiz Musharraf too apologized Bangladesh but what I mean to say that now its time to correct the mistakes.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

If there is a Pakistan-China-Burma-Bangladesh land route available than people and tourists will travel and use that track.

To go where?

Tourist are not there to waste their money or do you think they will do so just to please your day dream.

They should have great expectations from Islam. But they were expecting the miracles too early b/c they were suppressed by landlords so they thought that as soon as Pakistan will form their problems will be resolved in a split second but that was not the case b/c Pakistan had to rehabilitate millions of Muhajirs and there were disputes with India so their expectations were too early

.

Silly excuse.

Most of the landlords were Hindus. Read Bevridges History of Bengal.

Please don't force an argument where there is none.

Ask yourself about the Mohajirs, including the way you are treating Musharraf who has done so much for you.

No scapegoats at all! We did mistakes and we are accepting them President Parvaiz Musharraf too apologized Bangladesh but what I mean to say that now its time to correct the mistakes.

Bengalis are that gullible?

 

[salman nedian]

To go where?

Tourist are not there to waste their money or do you think they will do so just to please your day dream.

What do you want to say?

Do you mean that there are no tourist spots in Burma?

Silly excuse.

Most of the landlords were Hindus. Read Bevridges History of Bengal.

Please don't force an argument where there is none.

Ask yourself about the Mohajirs, including the way you are treating Musharraf who has done so much for you.

What should I ask myself about Muhajirs? I am a Muhajir and more than happy in my country.

Bengalis are that gullible?

What can I say to a person living in a state of denial but Bengalis are intelligent people they now understand the facts.

 

[T-Rex]

Ice cold you need to understand that given the geographical location of BD it will be completely unavoidable that it shall be falling under some kind of influence or the other. The question is not whether India is a democracy or not , the point is nation states that are relatively powerful will tend to exert their influence over the other , any nation state worth its salt would have been either under influence of another or would have influenced another one according to their strategic interest.

Say whatever may the internet warriors from BD, Bangladesh will have to be under the strategic influence of India, just like Pakistan exerts its influence in Afghanistan, like Russia exerts its influence over CIS, Just like the French exert influence over Africa.
The geography and the economic condition of BD does not help it either. We do have an interest in the affairs over BD, there is a significant amount of migration taking place across the border which is a huge problem in India.

Also one has to remember that economic relations dont always correlate with strategic interest. BD wants Chinese assistance in Railroads(example), then it is purely an economic decision based on rational economic decision, but however relating it to strategic interest and equations with India is a bit naieve. So according to T Rex'slogic if Manmohan sigh visits China then does India come under Chinese influence. What does Chinese premiers visit to BD have to do with Indo BD relations, is BD technically hostile towards China that Chinese premier's visit warants bellcosity between India and BD. Then Iraninan premier visited India does it mean that we shall be hostile towards US. The days of coldwar are over where you either belonged to one block or the other , nowadays relationships between nations tend to be modular and according to what they are comfortable with.

Accepted there has always been problems between the two nations, but pray tell me which two nations sharing a long border never had problems with each other, as I pointed out in another thread US has immigration and drug problems with Mexico, free trade problem with Canada so does that make them enemies , nope. These issues are bone of contention that will be solve through bilateral interest and negotiations. i think you seriously underestimate the potential and power of diplomacy and negotiations in conflict resolution, countries dont go to war or become hosytile because internet warriors want them to do so or due to certain problems with trade. Relationship with BD has been built over years and it will only be naive to underestimate Indian power and to assume that while Pakistan and China engage in such menuvers India will be static and well asleep

Cheers

Having influence on each other and meddling in the internal affairs of another state are not the same. What India does in this subcontinent the US does it all over the world, they take sides in the internal politics of other states. Not only that they do not hesitate to incite the army against democratically elected governments when those governments do not serve their purpose. If there is nothing wrong in it then they should come out in the open and say it unequivocally that the small states should not have sovereignty, it is only for the powerful and wealthy states.
The example that even the US has disputes with its neigbours is quite ridiculous for the US does not kill the citizens of Canada or Mexico on its borders as the Indian forces kill the Bangladeshis inside Bangladeshi territory almost everyday, nor do we see the US building dams over international rivers to deprive its neigbours from water of those rivers(of course the US has no international river flowing through it). So, the dispute between Mexico and the US or the US and Canada and the disputes between India and Bangladesh are of completely different nature, the comparison is simply false. Just because a small state happens to be next to a big state does not mean it has to be under the dictation of the big state, Cuba is a very good example of that.

 

[gpit]

This is the usual homilies that China so smoothly spouts.

High morality and no action!

Very hollow.

You have no moral, nor action!

China was a victim of imperialism; therefore it is very concerned about sending troops over board. Unlike India, being a victim of imperialism, it self wanted/wants to be imperialist.

In 71, China’s primary goal was to prevent West Pakistan from being invaded by India. And the goal was achieved without sending troops. Sun Tzu said: besiege enemy’s psyche be deemed as the highest option, besiege enemy’s fortress be deemed as the lowest option. An optimal result achieved by the most skillful is to win a victory without resorting to fight.

That is exactly what happened in the field, and is the highest form of concrete actions!

 

[gpit]

Chinese Invasion of Vietnam

...

This whole thing is mostly a crap, sorry to say that. This author knows nearly nothing about the conflict.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

This whole thing is mostly a crap, sorry to say that. This author knows nearly nothing about the conflict.

And you are doubting Salim and OOE's credibility on this issue

 

[gpit]

Again whole lot of blige.

China will not fight unless directly involved. China does not have the capability. As simple as that. What happened to China when she attacked Vietnam should be an adequate reminder! As also the Nathu La incident!

India has always catered for a two front war. If one understands the terrain in NEFA, one will realise that it is not feasible to launch any major operation since there are no roads and artillery and logistics cannot move manpack or on mules.

The War was not taken into West Pakistan because of international pressure.

As I said before, China is very reluctant to send troops abroad, because it is concerned and it was a victim of imperialism.

Probably you are right that China was not capable to logistically sustain a war in BD. That is why China opted to take higher form of fight. This is again conforming to Sun Tzu’s teaching: only knowing your enemy and knowing yourself, will you gain 100 wins in 100 battles.

Be smart and a grown-up, as I always teach you.

True it is international pressure that India dared not launch a war in the West front. Why can’t we be more specific? It was pressure from China and US, and it is more from China than from US. Soviet Union functioned as counter-pressure.

“India has always catered for a two front war.” If you are talking about recent decade, maybe. If you are talking about 71, it was not true.

Have you now catered for the third front? Nepal Maoists are democratically elected into the majority of the parliament. Hopefully you are aware of Prachanda’s comments.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Having influence on each other and meddling in the internal affairs of another state are not the same. What India does in this subcontinent the US does it all over the world, they take sides in the internal politics of other states. Not only that they do not hesitate to incite the army against democratically elected governments when those governments do not serve their purpose. If there is nothing wrong in it then they should come out in the open and say it unequivocally that the small states should not have sovereignty, it is only for the powerful and wealthy states.
The example that even the US has disputes with its neigbours is quite ridiculous for the US does not kill the citizens of Canada or Mexico on its borders as the Indian forces kill the Bangladeshis inside Bangladeshi territory almost everyday, nor do we see the US building dams over international rivers to deprive its neigbours from water of those rivers(of course the US has no international river flowing through it). So, the dispute between Mexico and the US or the US and Canada and the disputes between India and Bangladesh are of completely different nature, the comparison is simply false. Just because a small state happens to be next to a big state does not mean it has to be under the dictation of the big state, Cuba is a very good example of that.

For starters let me tell you India is not USA. I have read your posts all along and you live in a world of denial and false predgudices, you live in the fantasy land of ummah and muslim brother hood, unfortunately for you your country meen dont seem to share the same optimism, they already have enough problems internally (economically and socially) that they hardly have time to dream.

Why on earth would we shoot BD citizens inside your border , as if BSF has run out of target manequins. Those that are shot end up on our border smuggling goods for whom Bangladeshi rifles seem to provide cover. However this issue is being dealt with through border fencing and train transportation service between the two nations. Why on earth should we hate you in the first place when your own citizens dont hate us . Has the issue of Indian interference or influence ever come up in your elections, political circle or media circle. The point I am trying to say is that most of what is spewed in forums are hot airs and nothing else.

India is and will always be the sole of BD's economy, Bangladesh has to loose a lot in turning off India for farfetched Ideas of Burma china pak alliance. Tell me what will happen to your textile industry in case you open it to the chinese, where will your unemloyed migrate to find employment and send remittances, why would you simply loose a huge market like India with whom you share a huge border and a dissymetrical force level. Your government and people know this better so you and your disgruntled lot dont matter as you shall always remain in the fringes never to be part of the decision cycle.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Have you now catered for the third front? Nepal Maoists are democratically elected into the majority of the parliament. Hopefully you are aware of Prachanda’s comments.

Hmm that is a bit confusing , a majority of the board Pakistani fraternity and board members seem to think that India proped up the Maoists.