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Chinese military: Taiwan's F-16V useless against the PLA

F-16V can take on any Chinese fighter bar the J-20.
It will be a good addition to Taiwan defences.
You miss the point 90% of those fighters wont even grt a chance to be airborne. They will be wiped on the ground.

China is not India. Remember that. China is in a league of its own.


It cant even beat J-10C, not to mention J-16 and higher tier....
Again those f16 have to be in battle to fight. They will be destroyed in seconds.


Unless united states armed forces get involved taiwan has no chance to fight.

Even 1 provincial army of china is enough for taiwan.
 
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Typical ignorance from a conscript reject. The Iraqi Army never had the initiative. Coalition forces took them surprise.

Further, their combat doctrines were taken from the Soviet Union and your China. Their war against Iran were fought to a standstill, so that should be a clue as to how they would have fared against US and allies. We did not take their combat experience lightly. In fact, how we initially attacked Iraqi defenses came from taking their combat experience seriously. In terms of relative combat experience, the US was not lacking as we exited the Vietnam War in 1973. In the 20 yrs leading up to Desert Storm, we developed technologies and new doctrines that produced those spectacular results that ended the careers of many PLA generals.

The PLA cannot take Taiwan without incurring losses severe enough to set you back 20 yrs. Going by your oft 'could have would have' logic: If China could have taken Taiwan militarily, China would have done it.

Even your own PLA media called the PLA's leadership 'backward'. Your generals and admirals are corrupt to the core. You think that the order to the PLA in 1998 to divest itself of its corporate interests took immediate effects? You are dreaming. As with any business, there has to be an orderly transition of ownership and that could take yrs, depending on the size of the business, and the PLA had business interests in the billions of US dollars, large and small. Your PLA generals and admirals were busy offshoring whatever money they can get their hands on to make their inevitable retirement comfortable. Their subordinates were doing the same. The current generation of leadership maybe pure, but it will take them their entire careers to clean up the PLA, so you are looking at another 30 yrs.
Thanks for confirming experience is nothing if the wrong training and doctrine. :enjoy:
Your point of lacking war experience for PLA is irrelevant.
 
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Taiwan will get F35 with onboard American pilots if China attacks it, so F16 or F15 is just a financial transaction to get american security cover..US will not sale F35 to Taiwan for sure...so nothing to worry as long as china maintains status quo..
 
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Anyone got a real source on these statements? When its not just bashing Chinese economy and politics, SCMP is very hyperbolic and often mistranslates and misquotes Chinese military news to give excuses to U.S. provocations which like to pass off SCMP as a "Chinese newspaper"
 
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You miss the point 90% of those fighters wont even grt a chance to be airborne. They will be wiped on the ground.


Again those f16 have to be in battle to fight. They will be destroyed in seconds.


Unless united states armed forces get involved taiwan has no chance to fight.

Even 1 provincial army of china is enough for taiwan.

No as these aircraft will be protected by SAM batteries and hardened shelters.
A F-16 only needs a fraction of the runway to take off and they can be repaired very quickly if cratered.

To give you an example of how difficult it is to destroy a much smaller airforce look at Nato attacks against Serbia in 1999. Nato only destroyed a small fraction of the Serbian airforce on the ground. Taiwan airforce is relatively more advanced and numerous.
 
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Thanks for confirming experience is nothing if the wrong training and doctrine.
The wrong training and doctrines are what your PLA have been doing for decades. Now you have nothing at all. :enjoy:

https://mwi.usma.edu/broken-unreadable-unbearable-aversion-doctrine/
“A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.” – Soviet observation during the Cold War

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,443808,00.html
Years ago there was a quote, from an unknown German officer, found on the walls of many military offices that read, "The reason the American Army does so well in war is because war is chaos and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis."
 
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No as these aircraft will be protected by SAM batteries and hardened shelters.
A F-16 only needs a fraction of the runway to take off and they can be repaired very quickly if cratered.

To give you an example of how difficult it is to destroy a much smaller airforce look at Nato attacks against Serbia in 1999. Nato only destroyed a small fraction of the Serbian airforce on the ground. Taiwan airforce is relatively more advanced and numerous.

Look at the chinese plan. Taiwan wont have a fighting chance every military resource will be leveled in seconds.


No SAM batteries or missile defenses are strong enough or advances enough for what chinese plan is.
 
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@Foxtrot Delta
don't waste your time with the likes of @UKBengali , he is one of those who think if he is the last one to post then that means he proved his point right, he & @gambit will keep on copy pasting the same thing till they reach page 10, when a kid genuinely thinks that the moon is made out of chease do you spend the next 5 hours to try to make him understand that it is not chease? ofcourse not you should just pat the kid on the head & tell him "you will understand when you grow bigger".
 
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Look at the chinese plan. Taiwan wont have a fighting chance every military resource will be leveled in seconds.


No SAM batteries or missile defenses are strong enough or advances enough for what chinese plan is.

Study what happened between Nato and Serbia in 1999 and tell me why China and Taiwan in 2019 will be any different.

If and USN and JN get involved than China is totally screwed and will go back at least a decade in military power.
 
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Study what happened between Nato and Serbia in 1999 and tell me why China and Taiwan in 2019 will be any different.

If and USN and JN get involved than China is totally screwed and will go back at least a decade in military power.
Serbia in the end is defeated. So?

That is a 20 years different in time and AI technology will help ID real target vs decoy. Typical tactic deploy by Serbia. You claim Serbia AF is much smaller than ROC AF. Of cos its easier to hide a smaller AF. You cant do that with a bigger AF. The Ballistic missile going at 10 mach speed upon impact on ground is all penetrating explosion. Unless ROC able to build a concrete shelter capable of taking on 1000kg explosive. They are not able to intact most of their aircraft when precision missile salvo attack comes.

The wrong training and doctrines are what your PLA have been doing for decades. Now you have nothing at all. :enjoy:

https://mwi.usma.edu/broken-unreadable-unbearable-aversion-doctrine/
“A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.” – Soviet observation during the Cold War

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,443808,00.html
Years ago there was a quote, from an unknown German officer, found on the walls of many military offices that read, "The reason the American Army does so well in war is because war is chaos and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis."
Thanks for confirming US has been studying the wrong doctrine against China for decades. Their war experience against Taliban caveman counts nothing against modernize China armed forces. :enjoy:
 
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Thanks for confirming US has been studying the wrong doctrine against China for decades. Their war experience against Taliban caveman counts nothing against modernize China armed forces. :enjoy:
Only in your deluded and ignorant mind that I have 'confirmed' anything.

Wrong doctrine? You can barely spell the word, let alone understand it in the military context. :lol:

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF145/CF145.chap6.pdf
Finally, in a special Liberation Army Daily report in February 1996, an unidentified author stated that joint operations under high-tech conditions is a brand-new issue for the PLA, which lacks practical experience in this area. The PLA is also exploring theory, and there are many problems it needs to study and solve. Specifically, the PLA must emphasize research on basic theory of joint operations, then sum up, put in order, and disseminate the results. Based on the operational ideas of “overall operations and key strikes,” the PLA must establish, under high-tech conditions, the basic idea of “three service arms united for joint-force logistics support,” and mutually adapt it to guiding principles, command strategy, coordination and combat, and other theories, and gradually make it systematic.7

That was in 1996. Desert Storm was in 1990. It took six yrs for someone anonymous to RECOMMEND to the PLA that the American way of waging war was the SUPERIOR one. In other words, what was recommended to the PLA, we put it in practice to spectacular outcome six yrs earlier.

Then in 1998, the PLA was ordered to get out of capitalist ventures and to reform itself to the American model. You can count on at least 10 yrs to fully divest itself of its businesses and to completely exit the economy. That means your PLA have at best 10 yrs of reform so far.

But of course...You can always count on Korea...:lol:
 
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Only in your deluded and ignorant mind that I have 'confirmed' anything.

Wrong doctrine? You can barely spell the word, let alone understand it in the military context. :lol:

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF145/CF145.chap6.pdf
Finally, in a special Liberation Army Daily report in February 1996, an unidentified author stated that joint operations under high-tech conditions is a brand-new issue for the PLA, which lacks practical experience in this area. The PLA is also exploring theory, and there are many problems it needs to study and solve. Specifically, the PLA must emphasize research on basic theory of joint operations, then sum up, put in order, and disseminate the results. Based on the operational ideas of “overall operations and key strikes,” the PLA must establish, under high-tech conditions, the basic idea of “three service arms united for joint-force logistics support,” and mutually adapt it to guiding principles, command strategy, coordination and combat, and other theories, and gradually make it systematic.7

That was in 1996. Desert Storm was in 1990. It took six yrs for someone anonymous to RECOMMEND to the PLA that the American way of waging war was the SUPERIOR one. In other words, what was recommended to the PLA, we put it in practice to spectacular outcome six yrs earlier.

Then in 1998, the PLA was ordered to get out of capitalist ventures and to reform itself to the American model. You can count on at least 10 yrs to fully divest itself of its businesses and to completely exit the economy. That means your PLA have at best 10 yrs of reform so far.

But of course...You can always count on Korea...:lol:
Typical self doctored fake article with so called unidentified author. The unidentified author is the same hater like you who hate PLA and give whatever hatre opinion he deems. You claim this kind of garbage as proof? Can you used something new?

Your US doctrine is wrong all these years. Failed Afganisstan war with not clear goal and strategy. Even need to beg Taliban to get yourself out. LOL. What a joke!
 
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Taiwanese military and political targets will be bombed back to the Stone Age before a single PLA soldier lands on Taiwan.

The missile onslaught by the PLA will not be survived by Taiwan.

Taiwan will need all the SAMs they have and hope it intercepts every PLA missile. The worse thing for Taiwan is the capabilities of the PLA is growing rapidly in quality and quantity and the military gap between the mainland and Taiwan is going to grow exponentially bigger.

Taiwan is already diplomatically completely isolated. Their entire economy depends on the mainland and they know it. Even independence forces realise it is suicide to declare independence. Taiwan will be integrated without firing a single bullet.

You truly are delusional if you believe missile attacks are going make Taiwan surrender. And they will hide their most critical assets in hardened bunkers dug in mountains. Taiwan has had decades to prepare for Chinese missile attacks.

The vast majority of Taiwan has no interest in integrating with China. They already view themselves as being independent. They will never reunify peacefully.

How Taiwan can defeat China in a war


TAIPEI (Taiwan News) -- The magazine Foreign Policy yesterday presented key points from two recent studies which demonstrated ways in which Taiwan could successfully repel an invasion by China.

In an article posted yesterday (Sept. 25), Foreign Policy drew from a research paper written by Michael Beckley, a political scientist at Tufts University, and the book "The Chinese Invasion Threat: Taiwan’s Defense and American Strategy in Asia," by Ian Easton, a fellow at the Project 2049 Institute. The magazine concludes that based on this research, the worst nightmare for Chinese commanders is being forced to fight a Taiwanese "enemy that is better trained, better motivated, and better prepared for the rigors of warfare than troops the PLA could throw against them."

The article first presents the rosy, best-case scenario for the PLA in which massive waves of missile strikes take out all strategic positions and assassinations of key political leaders lays the groundwork for the smooth execution of the largest amphibious invasion seen in the history of the world. However, the biggest flaw in this plan is that it would depend entirely on the element of surprise and a glacially slow response by the U.S. and Japan, which in the modern digital communication age is highly unlikely.

As Easton had told Taiwan News in 2017, leaders of Taiwan, the U.S. and Japan would actually already see many telltale signs that an invasion was in the works 60 days beforehand. When it reaches 30 days before the war starts, "it would become very clear with every hour that passed that China's intention was to do a minimal-warning invasion. Of course, the Chinese would engage in lots of acts of deception, but there's no way they could trick Taiwanese intelligence and American intelligence," said Easton.

This amount of advanced notice would give Taiwan plenty of time shift command and control centers to hardened underground mountain tunnels, hunt for enemy agents, shift naval vessels away from vulnerable ports, arm Taiwan's 2.5 million reservists, spread out and conceal army units, and cover the Taiwan Strait with mines.

Taiwan’s horrible beaches

Another major enemy of China is Taiwan's dearth of large beaches that are friendly for amphibious landings. There are only 13 such beaches and all have already been prepped for such an eventuality, and reservists could be called up to help set up a hellish network of what Easton called "razor wire nets, hook boards, skin-peeling planks, barbed wire fences, wire obstacles, spike strips, landmines, anti-tank barrier walls, anti-tank obstacles … bamboo spikes, felled trees, truck shipping containers, and junkyard cars."

Treacherous Taiwan Strait

Another natural enemy China would face is the treacherous Taiwan Strait itself, which is notoriously plagued by gale force winds, typhoons, heavy fog and plum rains for much of the year. The Taiwan Strait actually only has two four-week windows in April or October, again, taking out the element of surprise and given the fickle nature of weather in the region, quite possibly delaying or hindering an invasion.

Pull the plug on “world’s factory”

Given that Taiwanese businesses employ legions of Chinese workers, a sudden shutdown of all the factories before an invasion and severing of money transfers would cause a significant economic disruption that could sew discord and panic among the civilian population.

Taiwanese spies

Something else that Chinese propagandists and PLA planners have given short shrift to is the possibility that Taiwanese agents could also carry out assassinations of political and military leaders and sabotage of southern China's transportation network and power grid.

Arsenal of missiles

Taiwan has also been steadily building up an arsenal of long-range cruise missiles such as the Hsiung Feng IIE (雄風二E, "Brave Wind IIE) surface-to-surface missile, with an estimated range of between 1,000 kilometers and 1,500 kilometers, making it capable of striking Hong Kong, Shanghai and provinces such as Fujian, Guangdong, and Zhejiang. These missiles can be used to great effect in areas where the PLA tries to marshal its forces before the invasion and once they set out to sea.

Taiwan also has been building up a stockpile of anti-ballistic missiles (ABM), such as the domestically-developed Tien Kung III (天弓導彈, Sky Bow), which can take out both incoming missiles and aircraft.

The invading armada of Chinese vessels would not only face these missiles, but also missiles from Taiwan's fighter jets, which can take shelter in Taiwan's network of bunkers built deep inside of Taiwan's mountains and can use highways as landing strips. Vessels would fall victim from torpedoes from its reserve force of submarines and Tuo Chiang-class corvettes, while still more would be made to stop dead in the water due to the countless mines littering the strait.

Easton also describes a "wall of flame" that could be used to menace Chinese warships by setting underground oil pipelines ablaze.

Decoys

Meanwhile, China's Air Force is unlikely to have success taking out Taiwan's mobile missiles and artillery, as countless decoys would be deployed throughout the mountainous country to confuse their targeting. The article cites the low success rate in targeting mobile missile launchers by the U.S.-led coalition during the 1990 to 1991 Gulf War and the 78-day bombing campaign by NATO against Serbian mobile missile launchers.

Asymmetrical warfare

The article aptly points out that "costs favor the defense." Just as the Chinese military has been using lower cost weapons such as the Dong-Feng 21D "carrier killer" to potentially fend off American supercarriers, so too can Taiwanese forces use the supersonic Hisung Feng IIE to seriously threaten China's Liaonning aircraft carrier.

To strengthen its asymmetric fighting capability, Taiwan's defense budget is boosting funding for building a new drone fleet, including the "Tengyun drone," which can fire U.S.-made AGM-114 Hellfire missiles.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3538667
 
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You truly are delusional if you believe missile attacks are going make Taiwan surrender. And they will hide their most critical assets in hardened bunkers dug in mountains. Taiwan has had decades to prepare for Chinese missile attacks.

The vast majority of Taiwan has no interest in integrating with China. They already view themselves as being independent. They will never reunify peacefully.

How Taiwan can defeat China in a war


TAIPEI (Taiwan News) -- The magazine Foreign Policy yesterday presented key points from two recent studies which demonstrated ways in which Taiwan could successfully repel an invasion by China.

In an article posted yesterday (Sept. 25), Foreign Policy drew from a research paper written by Michael Beckley, a political scientist at Tufts University, and the book "The Chinese Invasion Threat: Taiwan’s Defense and American Strategy in Asia," by Ian Easton, a fellow at the Project 2049 Institute. The magazine concludes that based on this research, the worst nightmare for Chinese commanders is being forced to fight a Taiwanese "enemy that is better trained, better motivated, and better prepared for the rigors of warfare than troops the PLA could throw against them."

The article first presents the rosy, best-case scenario for the PLA in which massive waves of missile strikes take out all strategic positions and assassinations of key political leaders lays the groundwork for the smooth execution of the largest amphibious invasion seen in the history of the world. However, the biggest flaw in this plan is that it would depend entirely on the element of surprise and a glacially slow response by the U.S. and Japan, which in the modern digital communication age is highly unlikely.

As Easton had told Taiwan News in 2017, leaders of Taiwan, the U.S. and Japan would actually already see many telltale signs that an invasion was in the works 60 days beforehand. When it reaches 30 days before the war starts, "it would become very clear with every hour that passed that China's intention was to do a minimal-warning invasion. Of course, the Chinese would engage in lots of acts of deception, but there's no way they could trick Taiwanese intelligence and American intelligence," said Easton.

This amount of advanced notice would give Taiwan plenty of time shift command and control centers to hardened underground mountain tunnels, hunt for enemy agents, shift naval vessels away from vulnerable ports, arm Taiwan's 2.5 million reservists, spread out and conceal army units, and cover the Taiwan Strait with mines.

Taiwan’s horrible beaches

Another major enemy of China is Taiwan's dearth of large beaches that are friendly for amphibious landings. There are only 13 such beaches and all have already been prepped for such an eventuality, and reservists could be called up to help set up a hellish network of what Easton called "razor wire nets, hook boards, skin-peeling planks, barbed wire fences, wire obstacles, spike strips, landmines, anti-tank barrier walls, anti-tank obstacles … bamboo spikes, felled trees, truck shipping containers, and junkyard cars."

Treacherous Taiwan Strait

Another natural enemy China would face is the treacherous Taiwan Strait itself, which is notoriously plagued by gale force winds, typhoons, heavy fog and plum rains for much of the year. The Taiwan Strait actually only has two four-week windows in April or October, again, taking out the element of surprise and given the fickle nature of weather in the region, quite possibly delaying or hindering an invasion.

Pull the plug on “world’s factory”

Given that Taiwanese businesses employ legions of Chinese workers, a sudden shutdown of all the factories before an invasion and severing of money transfers would cause a significant economic disruption that could sew discord and panic among the civilian population.

Taiwanese spies

Something else that Chinese propagandists and PLA planners have given short shrift to is the possibility that Taiwanese agents could also carry out assassinations of political and military leaders and sabotage of southern China's transportation network and power grid.

Arsenal of missiles

Taiwan has also been steadily building up an arsenal of long-range cruise missiles such as the Hsiung Feng IIE (雄風二E, "Brave Wind IIE) surface-to-surface missile, with an estimated range of between 1,000 kilometers and 1,500 kilometers, making it capable of striking Hong Kong, Shanghai and provinces such as Fujian, Guangdong, and Zhejiang. These missiles can be used to great effect in areas where the PLA tries to marshal its forces before the invasion and once they set out to sea.

Taiwan also has been building up a stockpile of anti-ballistic missiles (ABM), such as the domestically-developed Tien Kung III (天弓導彈, Sky Bow), which can take out both incoming missiles and aircraft.

The invading armada of Chinese vessels would not only face these missiles, but also missiles from Taiwan's fighter jets, which can take shelter in Taiwan's network of bunkers built deep inside of Taiwan's mountains and can use highways as landing strips. Vessels would fall victim from torpedoes from its reserve force of submarines and Tuo Chiang-class corvettes, while still more would be made to stop dead in the water due to the countless mines littering the strait.

Easton also describes a "wall of flame" that could be used to menace Chinese warships by setting underground oil pipelines ablaze.

Decoys

Meanwhile, China's Air Force is unlikely to have success taking out Taiwan's mobile missiles and artillery, as countless decoys would be deployed throughout the mountainous country to confuse their targeting. The article cites the low success rate in targeting mobile missile launchers by the U.S.-led coalition during the 1990 to 1991 Gulf War and the 78-day bombing campaign by NATO against Serbian mobile missile launchers.

Asymmetrical warfare

The article aptly points out that "costs favor the defense." Just as the Chinese military has been using lower cost weapons such as the Dong-Feng 21D "carrier killer" to potentially fend off American supercarriers, so too can Taiwanese forces use the supersonic Hisung Feng IIE to seriously threaten China's Liaonning aircraft carrier.

To strengthen its asymmetric fighting capability, Taiwan's defense budget is boosting funding for building a new drone fleet, including the "Tengyun drone," which can fire U.S.-made AGM-114 Hellfire missiles.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3538667

During the missile crisis of 1995 when the USN humiliated China over Taiwan, a Chinese general bragged that they will invade Taiwan by 2015 if it did not surrender. It is 2019 and still waiting...

Man, any Chinese invasion of Taiwan would mean the end of the family line of hundreds of thousands of Chinese and defeat if USN/JN get involved to boot.
 
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