Chinese Arab people

[Wholegrain]

The Ming dynasty issued edicts of toleration for Islam and Judaism after the Mongols were overthrown. Since this thread is not about Jews, I won't post the information about the Jewish stele, maybe on another thread. But note this was around 100 years before King Ferdinand and Isabella banned Muslims and Jews from Spain.

CHINESE-IRANIAN RELATIONS viii. Persian Lang. ? Encyclopaedia Iranica

Under the Ming dynasty (1368-1644) the Si-yi-guan (Office for the four barbarian [nations]) was established to provide official translations and to train translators; Persian was apparently required only occasionally for translation of books and diplomatic documents. The first Ming emperor, Tai-zu (r. 1368-97), ordered a group headed by Ma-sha-yi-hei (probably Mašāyeḵ, from Shaikh) to trans*late several Persian books, including one on astronomy, into Chinese as Tian-wen-jin, and in 1407 Ming Cheng-zu (r. 1403-25) issued an edict in Chinese, Mongolian, and Persian for the protection of Islamic minorities.

The first Ming Emperor is said to have written this eulogy on Islam and the Prophet Muhammad, there are several copies in Mosques in China like in Nanjing. Whether its real or not, its still a masterpiece of literature. Its made out of exactly one hundred characters with four characters for each verse.

禦制至聖百å*—è´Š - 王朝網路 - wangchao.net.cn

The Hundred-word Eulogy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

《百字讚》

“乾坤初始，天籍注名。傳教大聖，降生西域。授受天經，三十部冊，普化眾生。億兆君師，萬聖領袖。協助天運，保庇國民。五時祈祐，默祝太平。存心真主，加志窮民。拯救患難，洞徹幽冥。超拔靈魂，脱離罪業。仁覆天下，道冠古今。降邪歸一，教名清真。穆罕默德，至貴聖人。”

 

[KingMamba]

the fact that they needed imam to declare jihad when your own country is in danger proves that they are different from rest. It also means the rulers use religion at will to serve their interest.

They declared jihad to save China from the Japs and Muslim Chinese armies held much of the lines during WW2. If India was invaded by japs I bet you would be happy if all Imams declared a jihad.

The Ming dynasty issued edicts of toleration for Islam and Judaism after the Mongols were overthrown. Since this thread is not about Jews, I won't post the information about the Jewish stele, maybe on another thread. But note this was around 100 years before King Ferdinand and Isabella banned Muslims and Jews from Spain.

CHINESE-IRANIAN RELATIONS viii. Persian Lang. ? Encyclopaedia Iranica

The first Ming Emperor is said to have written this eulogy on Islam and the Prophet Muhammad, there are several copies in Mosques in China like in Nanjing. Whether its real or not, its still a masterpiece of literature. Its made out of exactly one hundred characters with four characters for each verse.

禦制至聖百å*—è´Š - 王朝網路 - wangchao.net.cn

The Hundred-word Eulogy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

《百字讚》

Wow bro thanks for sharing. That eulogy was amazing. Are you sure you aren't Muslim? You seem to be an encyclopedia on Chinese Muslims.

 

[KingMamba]

@al-Hasani so you did research after reading what he wrote.

 

[livingdead]

They declared jihad to save China from the Japs and Muslim Chinese armies held much of the lines during WW2. If India was invaded by japs I bet you would be happy if all Imams declared a jihad.

I was asked about integration, not whether they did something right or not.
Integration will be a muslim country attacking china, and muslims fighting like everybody else without imam calling them (or govt telling imam to influence them, as is the practice in many places)

 

[al-Hasani]

The Ming dynasty issued edicts of toleration for Islam and Judaism after the Mongols were overthrown. Since this thread is not about Jews, I won't post the information about the Jewish stele, maybe on another thread. But note this was around 100 years before King Ferdinand and Isabella banned Muslims and Jews from Spain.

CHINESE-IRANIAN RELATIONS viii. Persian Lang. ? Encyclopaedia Iranica

The first Ming Emperor is said to have written this eulogy on Islam and the Prophet Muhammad, there are several copies in Mosques in China like in Nanjing. Whether its real or not, its still a masterpiece of literature. Its made out of exactly one hundred characters with four characters for each verse.

禦制至聖百å*—è´Š - 王朝網路 - wangchao.net.cn

The Hundred-word Eulogy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

《百字讚》

Thank you a lot. Very interesting. Will definitely take a more through look at it. Yes, old poems are really impressive. You don't see such masterpieces very often anymore.

It is quite funny to think that those Mongolian barbarians, sorry for my language but they are often described as that in Arab/Islamic/European sources, after burning down Baghdad (including the Bayt al-Hikma which at that time was the biggest library in the world) which was the most advanced city at that time and the capital of the Abbasid Caliphate, later converted to Islam in great numbers - at least those who settled outside of Mongolia.

We all know the Mughal Empire who where Mongolian converts to Islam who later settled in Northern India. Who would have thought that in the beginning?

Also it would be quite interesting to know what would have happened if the Chinese had converted to Islam? Maybe the Chinese influence would be even bigger and extent outside the Mongoloid world? I thought about alternative history a few times and it would be interesting to know how states would have developed if they took a different path than they took.

Anyway:

KingMamba93:

Unfortunately not. Been busy with studies and sitting here. Really need another ban, LOL! Just waiting for the holidays after Wednesday. Will have to read more about China. Planning to visit very soon.

 

[KingMamba]

I was asked about integration, not whether they did something right or not.

You answered that they declared jihad for political means and I say they did it to save their country which proves their integration.

 

[livingdead]

You answered that they declared jihad for political means and I say they did it to save their country which proves their integration.

You replied before I could modify my comment it is now this:

I was asked about integration, not whether they did something right or not.
Integration will be a muslim country attacking china, and muslims fighting like everybody else without imam calling them (or govt telling imam to influence them, as is the practice in many places)

I did not say its political, when did I say that.

 

[KingMamba]

Thank you a lot. Very interesting. Will definitely take a more through look at it. Yes, old poems are really impressive. You don't see such masterpieces very often anymore.

It is quite funny to thing that those Mongolian barbarians, sorry for my language but they are often described as that in Arab/Islamic/European sources, after burning down Baghdad (including the Bayt al-Hikma which at that time was the biggest library in the world) which was the most advanced city at that time and the capital of the Abbasid Caliphate, later converted to Islam in great numbers - at least those who settled outside of Mongolia.

We all know the Mughal Empire who where Mongolian converts to Islam who later settled in Northern India. Who would have thought that in the beginning?

Also it would be quite interesting to know what would have happened if the Chinese had converted to Islam? Maybe the Chinese influence would be even bigger and extent outside the Mongoloid world? I thought about alternative history a few times and it would be interesting to know how states would have developed if they took a different path than they took.

Anyway:

Bro did you know it was a Muslim Mongol Khan who declared jihad on the khan who burned Baghdad that defeated his own cousin and finally ended Mongol expand westward?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berke#Berke-Hulagu_War

"He (Hulagu) has sacked all the cities of the Muslims, and has brought about the death of the Caliph. With the help of God I will call him to account for so much innocent blood." (see The Mongol Warlords, quoting Rashid al-Din's record of Berke Khan's pronouncement; this quote is also found in The Mamluk-Ilkhanid War)

Before his succession, He also complained Batu "We helped Möngke to enthrone. But he forgot who the enemy is or friend is. Now, he is starving the lands of our friend Caliph. It is abject". It is notable that Berke Khan kept his promise, allying himself with the Mamluks, (Berke sought an alliance with the Mamluk sultan Baibars against Hulagu) and when Hulagu returned to his lands in 1262, after the succession was finally settled with Kublai as the last Great Khan, and massed his armies to avenge Ain Jalut and attack the Mamluks, Berke Khan initiated a series of raids in force which drew Hulagu north to meet him. This was the first open conflict between Mongols, and signaled the end of the unified empire.

Aftermath[edit]

As Berke sought to cross the Kura river to attack Hulagu's son, Abaqa Khan, he fell ill and died sometime between 1266 and 1267.[4] He was succeeded by his grandnephew, Mengu-Timur. The policy of alliance with the Mamluks, and containment of the Ilkhanate, was continued by Mengu-Timur. Many historians[5] are in agreement that the intervention by Berke against Hulagu saved the remainder of the "Holy Land", including Mecca and Jerusalem, from the same fate as Baghdad.

The greatest threat to Islam was thus defeated. God works in mysterious ways.

Allahu Akbar

You replied before I could modify my comment it is now this:

I was asked about integration, not whether they did something right or not.
Integration will be a muslim country attacking china, and muslims fighting like everybody else without imam calling them (or govt telling imam to influence them, as is the practice in many places)

I did not say its political, when did I say that.

Muslim country will never attack China so Chinese Muslims should always be looked at suspiciously?

 

[al-Hasani]

Bro did you know it was a Muslim Mongol Khan who declared jihad on the khan who burned Baghdad that defeated his own cousin and finally ended Mongol expand westward?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berke#Berke-Hulagu_War

"He (Hulagu) has sacked all the cities of the Muslims, and has brought about the death of the Caliph. With the help of God I will call him to account for so much innocent blood." (see The Mongol Warlords, quoting Rashid al-Din's record of Berke Khan's pronouncement; this quote is also found in The Mamluk-Ilkhanid War)

Before his succession, He also complained Batu "We helped Möngke to enthrone. But he forgot who the enemy is or friend is. Now, he is starving the lands of our friend Caliph. It is abject". It is notable that Berke Khan kept his promise, allying himself with the Mamluks, (Berke sought an alliance with the Mamluk sultan Baibars against Hulagu) and when Hulagu returned to his lands in 1262, after the succession was finally settled with Kublai as the last Great Khan, and massed his armies to avenge Ain Jalut and attack the Mamluks, Berke Khan initiated a series of raids in force which drew Hulagu north to meet him. This was the first open conflict between Mongols, and signaled the end of the unified empire.

Aftermath[edit]

As Berke sought to cross the Kura river to attack Hulagu's son, Abaqa Khan, he fell ill and died sometime between 1266 and 1267.[4] He was succeeded by his grandnephew, Mengu-Timur. The policy of alliance with the Mamluks, and containment of the Ilkhanate, was continued by Mengu-Timur. Many historians[5] are in agreement that the intervention by Berke against Hulagu saved the remainder of the "Holy Land", including Mecca and Jerusalem, from the same fate as Baghdad.

The greatest threat to Islam was thus defeated. God works in mysterious ways.

Allahu Akbar


Muslim country will never attack China so Chinese Muslims should always be looked at suspiciously?

Yes, bro, I have read about that period of Islamic history quite extensively. Also about the Mongolians. Overall it was obviously a very unfortunate part of our history. I guess the Mongolians through their Mughal off-spring made up for it a little since, from my knowledge at least, their rule made a lot of people Muslim in South Asia.

This the only picture of a Mughal emperor. This is the last one - Bahadur Shah II

There where also the Nizam's of Hyderabad who claimed descant from Hadrah Abu Bakr (ra). Not sure how accurate that claim was. Apparently the last ruler was considered the richest man in the world in 1937 by TIME Magazine.

 

[Enemy]

Yes, bro, I have read about that period of Islamic history quite extensively. Also about the Mongolians. Overall it was obviously a very unfortunate part of our history. I guess the Mongolians through their Mughal off-spring made up for it a little since, from my knowledge at least, their rule made a lot of people Muslim in South Asia.

This the only picture of a Mughal emperor. This is the last one - Bahadur Shah II

There where also the Nizam of Hyderabad who claimed descant from Hadrah Abu Bakr (ra). Not sure how accurate that claim was. Apparently the last ruler was considered the richest man in the world in 1937 by TIME Magazine.

Dynastic group portrait of Emperors Babur, Humayun, Akbar and Jahangir with the poet Sa’di on the left and an attendant on the right.

 

[al-Hasani]

Dynastic group portrait of Emperors Babur, Humayun, Akbar and Jahangir with the poet Sa’di on the left and an attendant on the right.

Thank you. Yes, you can clearly see their Mongoloid features unlike their later descendants who had very few Mongoloid features if any. Other than having a Mongolian paternal lineage.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The Dongxiang people are the Mongolian Sunni Muslims from China, they look completely Mongoloid today, but one third of their Y-DNA belongs to the East Iranic R1a1a.

So i guess many of their ancestors are actually the Iranian mercenaries from Central Asia, they eventually married with the Mongolian women, that's why their descendants now look completely Mongolians despite having carried a large amount of R1a1a.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

The Dongxiang people are the Mongolian Sunni Muslims from China, they look completely Mongoloid today, but one third of their Y-DNA belongs to the East Iranic R1a1a.

So i guess many of their ancestors are actually the Iranian mercenaries from Central Asia, they eventually married with the Mongolian women, that's why their descendants now look completely Mongolians despite having carried a large amount of R1a1a.

China should invade Japan and Korea

No seriously

How many Muslim communities does China have? I mean are they in every city?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China should invade Japan and Korea

No seriously

How many Muslim communities does China have? I mean are they in every city?

Pretty huge, Hui and Uyghur are the two largest Muslim communities, but the exact number i am not sure.

 

[livingdead]

Muslim country will never attack China so Chinese Muslims should always be looked at suspiciously?

I did not say they should be. Just that the evidence given is not supportive of the conclusion we are drawing.
How can you be sure about muslim country not attacking china. Or china might attack a muslim country.