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China's Largest Rocket CZ-5 ... Maiden Launch 20:42 November 3, 2016!

lol, the Chinese had lost the space race 40 years ago, of course they are welcome to have a space race with the US, even if US stay at the same level as of now, its going to take the Chinese a lot of money and resource to get to the US level today (Currently the Chinese Space capability is at 70's NASA level)

I am pretty sure if they actually plan to break the treaty, the US would just start warming up Atlantis and Endeavour or Even Discovery could come out of retirement. meanwhile the Chinese did not even have a working Lunar Module.

The US are at least 3 times/stages ahead shall China want to break the treaty

Maybe lag 40 years, but the America has gotten any acutal fruits from the space project, got a metal, resources, new settlement, anything? In my opinion, they are at the similar level, exploration level.
 
Maybe lag 40 years, but the America has gotten any acutal fruits from the space project, got a metal, resources, new settlement, anything? In my opinion, they are at the similar level, exploration level.

lol. that's where you were wrong, US had launch 135 space shuttle mission (From 1977 to 2011) and stayed in Space and Celestial body for about 700 days), investigate the geometry, weather, soil sample, location, material, biological organism, radiation and habitation on moon and in space. The missions also draw a perfect condition of moon as you would in space. Moon Rock, Moon-mineral, Asteroid Pieces and Micro-bacteria were all collected and investigated over and over. The NASA actually know a lot more about moon than they knew about the earth, to a point after 135 space mission, they had enough to stop the launch as they deem "no further progress" is possible.

Whatever you want to do on the moon, the US had tried and done it, or you really think the 135 STS mission is just simply blast a space shuttle up into the space and comeback without doing anything?

TO illustrate an idea on how much NASA knew about the moon.

If the US government decided to colonize the moon tomorrow by passing some Moon Colony Act, the NASA will have a trajectory on where the colony would be with the largest amount of surface water, location with soil sample that suitable to build structure on. Location of Solar Panel that can have the most continuous sunlight to maximize power generation, the location of the bacteria to decompose any waste or for anaerobia reaction. A Location where the moon was shielded and sheltered to the Sun's Radiation. All these location and question are require to colonize the moon and the US had already have the answer with it with the series of STS and LCROSS mission

On the other hand, China have yet to launch into the moon (Let alone manned the moon), for China to colonize the moon, unless they try to replicate (better word for copy) what the US did (Build next to US colony) otherwise all those question needed to be answer first and also the Chinese is lacking "Precise Landing" technique. So even if the Chinese know where to land, without knowing the landing technique, they may go off course, and unlike on earth, you cannot hire a truck and transport your building material from A to B on moon.

So you tell me, how far did China lack behind?

The only thing the NASA needs is a permission to do so, I am pretty sure if China intended on colonize the moon, the US will just go while the Chinese will still need to figure out where and how to land on the moon in order to build something.
 
Well, you cannot mine the resource in/on moon or in space, China and US signed the outer space treaty in 1960 to forbid situation just like that. You are welcome to conduct experiment in space but resource in space will stay where they were, in space.

Is it China or Uni Soviet? As far as I know that treaty was between Uni Soviet and USA. I don't know if China signed that treaty. so can you give me some information about this matter? The source? I want to know, thanks
 
Is it China or Uni Soviet? As far as I know that treaty was between Uni Soviet and USA. I don't know if China signed that treaty. so can you give me some information about this matter? The source? I want to know, thanks

The Outer Space Treaty is an UN treaty.

IT was signed in 1967 and signed by Republic of China as UNSC party co-founded to the treaty, and China, PRC was assented to the treaty in 1984 and ratified it in the same year.

The person above had already provided the actual treaty, you can look at it yourselves.
 
Some people ought to check themselves before they wreck themselves. It's always, not sometime, good to read the whole article before you quote it and try to prove your point.

Congress Says Yes to Space Mining, No to Rocket Regulations | WIRED

First and foremost, the bill protects private spaceflight from regulatory oversight, giving the industry up to 8 years to get its innovations in place before government overseers step in and start counting rivets. But more interesting (if less immediately applicable), the bill lets entrepreneurs keep whatever nonliving souvenirs they find out in the void, opening the door to everything from asteroid-based gold mines to comet-collected rocket fuel. The next step is President Obama’s desk, but he’s likely to sign


The Commercial Space activities acts that recently passed in congress are a law allowing right of commercial/private space venturer to process material in space, venturer such as SpaceX, Virgin Galactic or Rocketplane Kister are now allowed to venture into space flight and commercial space activities.

While the Outer Space treaty defined the "STATE" right on space, which control the "Government" of perspective signatory nation regarding their right on space, the treaty have NO EFFECT on private or commercial space activities.

The Outer Space Treaty

The Treaty was largely based on the Declaration of Legal Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, which had been adopted by the General Assembly in its resolution 1962 (XVIII) in 1963

With explicit instruction in said treaty to confer the right (Any right) for non-governmental space venture here

  • the exploration and use of outer space shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries and shall be the province of all mankind;
  • outer space shall be free for exploration and use by all States;
  • outer space is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means;
  • States shall not place nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction in orbit or on celestial bodies or station them in outer space in any other manner;
  • the Moon and other celestial bodies shall be used exclusively for peaceful purposes;
  • astronauts shall be regarded as the envoys of mankind;
  • States shall be responsible for national space activities whether carried out by governmental or non-governmental entities;
  • States shall be liable for damage caused by their space objects; and
  • States shall avoid harmful contamination of space and celestial bodies.

Basically what Outer Space Treaty entail is that Governmental Agency (Such as NASA, ESA or CNSA) are not allow to mine the Space, but it is up to the government to allow the right to non-governmental bodies.

As explain further here if anyone interested

The Space Review: International space law and commercial space activities: the rules do apply

The Outer Space Treaty and constitutional law

A theme prevalent among commercial space advocates is that the Outer Space Treaty and the existing body of international space law is intended only for the United States government and does not extend to private individuals
, including commercial space actors. In line with this assertion, some commercial space advocates also contend that commercial space activities are not a power delegated to the federal government and is therefore a right conferred to private citizens under the Constitution, which means that the United States government cannot prohibit or otherwise interfere with commercial space activities. These two misconceptions are best dealt with simultaneously by tying together federal power delegated under the Constitution with the legal effect of treaties on United States law.

Hence the signing of Commercial Space Activities act does not violate the outer space treaty by the US, in fact, it's more than welcome if Jack Ma, or Lee Ka Shing to part-take into commercial space activities, but if CNSA wanted to do it? They would have broken the treaty.

But then for someone who solely put insult everywhere, maybe these kind of information is quite hard to understand.
 
Some people ought to check themselves before they wreck themselves. It's always, not sometime, good to read the whole article before you quote it and try to prove your point.

Congress Says Yes to Space Mining, No to Rocket Regulations | WIRED



The Commercial Space activities acts that recently passed in congress are a law allowing right of commercial/private space venturer to process material in space, venturer such as SpaceX, Virgin Galactic or Rocketplane Kister are now allowed to venture into space flight and commercial space activities.

While the Outer Space treaty defined the "STATE" right on space, which control the "Government" of perspective signatory nation regarding their right on space, the treaty have NO EFFECT on private or commercial space activities.

The Outer Space Treaty



With explicit instruction in said treaty to confer the right (Any right) for non-governmental space venture here



Basically what Outer Space Treaty entail is that Governmental Agency (Such as NASA, ESA or CNSA) are not allow to mine the Space, but it is up to the government to allow the right to non-governmental bodies.

As explain further here if anyone interested

The Space Review: International space law and commercial space activities: the rules do apply



Hence the signing of Commercial Space Activities act does not violate the outer space treaty by the US, in fact, it's more than welcome if Jack Ma, or Lee Ka Shing to part-take into commercial space activities, but if CNSA wanted to do it? They would have broken the treaty.

But then for someone who solely put insult everywhere, maybe these kind of information is quite hard to understand.

Lol

What a bloody loser. Since when are private companies not bound by national treaties? You couldn't get anymore stupid, could you?
 
Lol

What a bloody loser. Since when are private companies not bound by national treaties? You couldn't get anymore stupid, could you?

Since the Treaty itself confer the individual right to the State. And the treaty specify there should be no national appropriation by claim of sovereignty

outer space is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means

States shall be responsible for national space activities whether carried out by governmental or non-governmental entities;

The Outer Space Treaty


The Treaty itself only govern the state actor, commercial actor were not included, check the treaty again yourselves and see who is the sore loser
 
Lol

What a bloody loser. Since when are private companies not bound by national treaties? You couldn't get anymore stupid, could you?

When the national treaty doesn't ban what they are doing.

Give it up, astronauts took back moon rocks when they went to the moon, and no one made a fuss. Ownership of resources extracted in space has been vindicated.

Likewise this is an extension of maritime law. Any fishing boat can fish in international waters and own their catch. Same thing. We are only extending the laws we know in a domain we understand to space. Undoubtedly changes will need to be made in the future, but for now this is a good start to help investment.
 
Since the Treaty itself confer the individual right to the State. And the treaty specify there should be no national appropriation by claim of sovereignty





The Outer Space Treaty


The Treaty itself only govern the state actor, commercial actor were not included, check the treaty again yourselves and see who is the sore loser

LOL

What a load of crap. Why do we even need international treaties, when private companies can do whatever they want? :lol:

When the national treaty doesn't ban what they are doing.

Give it up, astronauts took back moon rocks when they went to the moon, and no one made a fuss. Ownership of resources extracted in space has been vindicated.

Likewise this is an extension of maritime law. Any fishing boat can fish in international waters and own their catch. Same thing. We are only extending the laws we know in a domain we understand to space. Undoubtedly changes will need to be made in the future, but for now this is a good start to help investment.

In other words, it's all legal to extract space sources if you have the mean to do it.
 
LOL

What a load of crap. Why do we even need international treaties, when private companies can do whatever they want? :lol:



In other words, it's all legal to extract space sources if you have the mean to do it.

Yes, as long as you can get to the asteroid (planet?) and mine the materials, you own those materials, even if you don't own the asteroid.

To my understanding, even governments can do this.

This could lead to a funny situation where 2 companies (governments?) land on the same asteroid and mine it, thats 1 thing that needs to be worked out.

There are plenty of asteroids out there though.

I'm not actually clear on whether private companies can claim ownership of asteroids themselves vs resources, i suppose if they were able to control its movement they could technically be considered to own it, but this needs to be clarified i think.

Thats the thing though. When this treaty was made, no one considered private companies would have the resources to travel to space themselves, much less make economic use of space.

Humans follow profit though.

Aside from maritime law, another possible inspiration is the homestead act (somewhat) or maybe the gold rush.
 
LOL

What a load of crap. Why do we even need international treaties, when private companies can do whatever they want? :lol:



In other words, it's all legal to extract space sources if you have the mean to do it.

how do you confirm/define the "Nationality" of a company? Take Virgin Galactic as an example.

The company chairman is British (Richard Branson) The company parental group (Virgin Group) HQ at London, UK, the group (Virgin Galactic) HQ at Pasadena, California, however, the company registration is in Babados.

Tell me, which country does Virgin Galactic fall on? International Treaty can only cover state, with todays company are almost all multinational.
 
CZ-5 / LongMarch-5
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how do you confirm/define the "Nationality" of a company? Take Virgin Galactic as an example.

The company chairman is British (Richard Branson) The company parental group (Virgin Group) HQ at London, UK, the group (Virgin Galactic) HQ at Pasadena, California, however, the company registration is in Babados.

Tell me, which country does Virgin Galactic fall on? International Treaty can only cover state, with todays company are almost all multinational.

And you don't see a problem with these loopholes where companies can circumvent any international treaties? Why don't we privatise the government as well? Oh wait, there is TTIP/ TTP. The corporations are already making international laws for all of us. Ain't that cute?
 
And you don't see a problem with these loopholes where companies can circumvent any international treaties? Why don't we privatise the government as well? Oh wait, there is TTIP/ TTP. The corporations are already making international laws for all of us. Ain't that cute?

You do realise any Free Trade Pack are helping this world globalize commercial business. This is what China have been doing too just so you know.
 

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