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China’s Bizarre Claims On The South China Sea.

China grew big and small from time to time but ancient Hindu kingdoms were totally conquered, their people put to the sword or sold as slaves for 800 years! Today's Indians all can trace their paternal ancestry to the invaders because all males were killed or sold as slaves. China never suffered this kind of total extermination since our first dynasty in 300 BC.

Yeah? You know it better? The real truth that secular schmucks don't want you or rest of Indians to know is that NONE of the Hindu kingdoms ever remained "under control" of Islamic invaders ever except on their stupid maps. For example, we NE Indians were a part of King Prithvi's rule. Do you know what we made out of the stupid jihadis that tried to conquer us? More than 150,000 had come from Afghanistan; Only 500 returned back with Gurkhas, Lepchas and my fellow Bhutias chasing these scum all the way back to Qandahar.

The reality is, that NO Hindu or Buddhist or Sikh area was ever under any Islamic control. Mughals and other invaders just made big maps riding through uninhabited forests. Most of the secular media portrays these stupid invaders as some invincible heros while they were getting their behinds whopped by different smaller kingdoms daily.

The Maratha Hindu warriors of southwest, we Buddhist and Hindu warriors of northeast, Sikh Dharmic warriors of northwest and Dogra Hindu warriors of northernmost would brutalize the Mughals like toy dolls.

Except for a few estates in Gujarat, Bengal, UP and MP regions, the Muslim invaders could NEVER fully conquer us except in their wet dreams and fantasy maps.

You can bet on this; I am from a warrior clan myself of those days; my ancestors have passed down this since generations without actually having a madcap dictator erase our history.


I tell you what; the remains of the gazis were wonderful fertilizers for our terrace cultivation. We got wonderful crop production even in sub-himalayan region out of their remains. :P



Read this carefully again before just pointing the headline. You will find a different tone to it. During olden wars thousands of Chinese were annihilated by Mongols and Manchus as well. Thousands more were annihilated just half a century back. Does it men you don't exist? Oh wait, you're just loud thinking your silly fantasy. Talking about slaves... you forget your own (un-revised) history.

This is one of the reasons you got your Cultural Revolution so that false patriotism could be stuffed into you lot today. Arguing history with a controlled robot like you is useless.... you will continue repeating what has been taught to you.

Did you know, while Hindus were being conquered by Islam, Ming Dynasty was busy building a blue water navy and exploring SE Asia and South Asia?

We had blue water navies more than 2000 years back under powerful southern kingdoms like Cholas, Chalukyas and other dynasties. That's why I am telling you; when debating on history, come out of your Red cocoon. There's a whole wide world out there.

Put it bluntly, China is a great civilization because have our ups and downs but never were we destroyed. Even our worse 100 years came to an end when we defeated UN troops in Korea. We can claim lands based on our continuous history and pure ancestry.

Yeah whatever. No one was ever destroyed on this side of the border as well as your Pakistani Muslim friends told you. We follow the same Buddh Dharma that we followed more than 2000 years back; Hindu Dharma is still the same what our countrymen followed for lakhs of years previously. Unlike your western concept of race, we never had it since we don't have inter-breeding anymore in India. (Mostly it was Pakistanis who were Mughal, central-Asian descendants who left for Pakistan; what you see today in India is the same ancient us).

Ancient Hindu kingdoms were totally destroyed and Islam ruled the subcontinent for 800 years before Anglos came and rule it for another 200. You are a conquered, mixed-blood people who gained freedom after colonialism came to an end post-WW2. You can claim nothing based on history.

Aww! The ickle Red is so desperate to convince himself! :lol:

---------- Post added at 01:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 PM ----------

china should concentrate on the indian ocean once the south china sea is safely secured.

Yeah why not? :lol:
 
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There you go! This is a sample one of "High IQ" from China :D

China was an aggressor due to bullied small countries, but its coward dare not to face-off to a big countries, like US, Rusia and India.

You just singled out 3 countries that China had war with during the last 50 years.and the results were pretty much in China's favor.sharp eyes to find out who China likes to pick a fight with.
 
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Hehe, you must feel ashamed with your 'high IQ' when our Govt. could cheat your easily bcz of your poor knowledge about international laws. The world recognized those islands belong to South VietNam before 1975, China is Nothing on earth, so no one care about a big bad boy being cheated by small neighbour .China must respect the law , or withdraw of UNSC and live with your own rules make by 'High IQ' China :P

Go home and learn more international laws before arguing with us, big bad boy :P

haha,at least you admitted that your government cheated,they first accept those islands belong to China and then ate their word,seems like you guys are very happy when you cheat,ok,China was cheated by Vietnam once,that's good,that will ensure China know that it wont be cheated twice.cheating wont take you anywhere far.
 
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This big mouth Chin should remember that 10000 of the likes of him would cower against a single "uncooked barbarian" Mongol.

Recently USA saved them in WW-2 from the Japanese who were killing millions of them.

They can jump only on the net. Pathetic!
 
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This big mouth Chin should remember that 10000 of the likes of him would cower against a single "uncooked barbarian" Mongol.

Recently USA saved them in WW-2 from the Japanese who were killing millions of them.

They can jump only on the net. Pathetic!

The Japanese still give a shyt to their concerns when each of their PM pays his respects at the Yasukuni not paying a heed to the Chinese whinings and poutings.

The reality is, that NO Hindu or Buddhist or Sikh area was ever under any Islamic control. Mughals and other invaders just made big maps riding through uninhabited forests. Most of the secular media portrays these stupid invaders as some invincible heros while they were getting their behinds whopped by different smaller kingdoms daily.

The Maratha Hindu warriors of southwest, we Buddhist and Hindu warriors of northeast, Sikh Dharmic warriors of northwest and Dogra Hindu warriors of northernmost would brutalize the Mughals like toy dolls.

Except for a few estates in Gujarat, Bengal, UP and MP regions, the Muslim invaders could NEVER fully conquer us except in their wet dreams and fantasy maps.

Not to mention that our regions (South India) was not even on their maps....not even nominally.

The guy should know that the only people truly 'conquered' are those thaat inhabit the modern day Pakistan, so much so that their missiles/arms are named after the foreign invaders who brutalized their ancestors !

These are the guys who were conquered, not just physically but idealogically,spiritually and that is the real defeat.We Indians, came out of the temporary dark phase, stronger than ever.
 
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The guy should know that the only people truly 'conquered' are those thaat inhabit the modern day Pakistan, so much so that their missiles/arms are named after the foreign invaders who brutalized their ancestors !

These are the guys who were conquered, not just physically but idealogically,spiritually and that is the real defeat.

It is so sad when I see people celebrating the murder, rapes and genocide of their own ancestors.

It is unique to a specific set though.

I don't see Christians in India or Pakistan considering themselves a separate nation and reminiscing of British invasions on them.

Nor does one see it in the case of Dharmic religions practiced elsewhere.
 
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haha,at least you admitted that your government cheated,they first accept those islands belong to China and then ate their word,seems like you guys are very happy when you cheat,ok,China was cheated by Vietnam once,that's good,that will ensure China know that it wont be cheated twice.cheating wont take you anywhere far.
1. always said: VN cheat CHina in this case , I never change my words , you can see it in thread: 'Tension between VN and China'

2. Cheating enemy is the way to success , we always consider CHina is big bad enemy for thousand years , of course we always use trick to defeat you in battle .You cheated us about friendship and attack us suddently after that too , but you fail bcz your 'High IQ' CHinese could not have any trick better than us :wave:
 
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1. always said: VN cheat CHina in this case , I never change my words , you can see it in thread: 'Tension between VN and China'

2. Cheating enemy is the way to success , we always consider CHina is big bad enemy for thousand years , of course we always use trick to defeat you in battle .You cheated us about friendship and attack us suddently after that too , but you fail bcz your 'High IQ' CHinese could not have any trick better than us :wave:

cheating China will get you no good,and as for betraying a friend,we helped you money and blood,we gave everything we had.thousands of our troops died helping you fighting France and US .during the 60s and 70s China served as Vietnam's vast strategic rear where Vietnamese troops could rest and regroup,all your officers were trained in Kunming Infantry School.and what you did to us,when China and USSR fell out and you immediately switched loyalty to USSR,how many Russian died for you?and you just turned against us when China and USSR became at odds,you invaded combodia and picked trouble with China to show how loyal you were to your master USSR,and the result?you gained nothing from them but poverty.
 
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cheating China will get you no good,and as for betraying a friend,we helped you money and blood,we gave everything we had.thousands of our troops died helping you fighting France and US .during the 60s and 70s China served as Vietnam's vast strategic rear where Vietnamese troops could rest and regroup,all your officers were trained in Kunming Infantry School.and what you did to us,when China and USSR fell out and you immediately switched loyalty to USSR,how many Russian died for you?and you just turned against us when China and USSR became at odds,you invaded combodia and picked trouble with China to show how loyal you were to your master USSR,and the result?you gained nothing from them but poverty.
1. Show me the envidence that we request your PLA to fight in the battle .If you don't have, so you're just another Lying Chinese here.

2. We requestede your help simply bcz you're communist country , if you're not, we already helped USSR to destroy CHina by Nuke warhead .And who broke the relationship first ??it's CHina, you took advantage of VN war to robed our islands, kill our people in 1974, betrayed Communist bloc and become US's puppy , barking and biting communist bloc for him after that.
 
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1. Show me the envidence that we request your PLA to fight in the battle .If you don't have, so you're just another Lying Chinese here.

2. We request your help simply bcz you're communist country , if you're not, we already helped USSR to destroy CHina by Nuke warhead .And who broke the relationship first ??it's CHina, you took advantage of VN war to robed our islands, kill our people in 1974 and betrayed Communist bloc and become US's puppy , barking and biting communist blco for him after that.

you mean you didnt request China to fight for you or you mean China didnt fight for you at all? and it's ok you threw all your loyalty to your Russian master comrades and where are they now??where are those your loyal Communist bloc now??who betrayed Communist bloc?
 
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Chinese military support, 1950-54

Ho would formally request military aid in the nature of equipment, advisors and training for the PAVN in April of 1950. Interestingly enough he would also request Chinese commanders at the regimental and battalion level to assist the Vietnamese Army, a request wisely denied by China, who would send advisors, not commanders to the North of Vietnam. [23] Such a request for Chinese commanders of PAVN units highlights the leadership problems present at the time in the Vietnamese forces, and the prevailing lack of confidence in Vietnamese commanders.

Chinese Military Advisory Group
After this request by Ho, the PRC in April of 1950 would begin forming the Chinese Military Advisory Group (CMAG) in order to provide military assistance to the Vietnamese forces fighting the French. General Wei Guoqing would lead the CMAG to North Vietnam, along with Senior General Chen Geng, the “scholar general,” and the PRC ambassador. The Second, Third and Fourth PLA field armies were directed to select experienced officers for service in Vietnam. Some 281 officers were selected with many having command experience. [24]

the Chairman spoke with his military advisors enroute to Vietnam, “It is President Ho chi Minh who has asked me for [your assistance], Who would have thought our revolution would succeed first? We should help them. It is called internationalism. You will help them to win the battles after you get to Vietnam.” [25] The advisors of the CMAG would do exactly that as the impact of these Chinese advisors and new weapons for the PAVN would soon be apparent in the war. Standard Chinese Maoist doctrine for revolutionary wars would be stressed and advisors were informed to avoid the “mentality of big-state chauvinism and not to display contempt for the Vietnamese.” [26] By 1950 the French had almost completely lost control of the border region with China with isolation garrisons in Cao Bang and Langson struggling to maintain a presence.

The border region would be the first test of the new Chinese trained and equipped PAVN forces. General Chen Geng wrote in a report that “Some Vietnamese crack units are in high morale after receiving training and equipment in Yunnan and Guangxi, but Vietnamese cadres above the battalion level lack command experience in actual combat.” [27] This was an accurate statement concerning the PAVN but it was one problem about to be corrected.
The CMAG would provide planning guidance, among other things, for the upcoming Border Campaigns of 1950. This campaign would begin in September with garrison after garrison falling to the Viet Minh in the north with tremendous losses for the isolated French garrisons near the Sino-Vietnamese border. Outnumbered 8 to 1 by the Vietnamese, the French would lose immense amounts of men to include 6,000 of 10,000 men in the north, and supplies to include 13 artillery pieces, 125 mortars and 450 trucks, in what some have described as the greatest defeat in French colonial history since the French and Indian War in North America. [28]

Within 48 hours after these successful assaults on those isolated French outposts in the north, Chinese General Chen would hold what we would call today an after action review. Chen would brief Giap and other high ranking officers for four hours on the shortcomings of the Vietnamese Army. These short comings according to Chen would include not following the order for battle and attacking late, commanders not leading assaults from the front, poor communications, and cadres making false reports to superiors.[29] One wonders how such criticism was received but such reviews are vital for an army’s subsequent growth and improvement. To General Giap “The victory shows Mao’s military thought was very applicable to Vietnam.” [30]

In addition to the training and planning guidance by the CMAG the logistical support from China began to increase steadily. The support provided was only 10-20 tons a month in 1951, increasing to 250 tons a month in 1952, further increasing to 600 tons a month in 1953 and 1,500 to 4,000 tons monthly during the last year of the war in 1954. [31] Additionally the Chinese transportation network to include roads and railways leading from China to Vietnam was improved also with some 1,000 trucks provided to the PAVN. This military aid provided by China enabled the PAVN to expand into a well armed and trained conventional force capable of defeating the French Army in large scale offensive operations. From a force in 1950 of 3 divisions the PAVN would expand two years later into a force of 7 divisions. All in all the Chinese military aid would arm a total of over 7 PAVN divisions. All this military support would not go unnoticed by the west, with the CIA, by March 1952, estimating that some 15,000 Chinese Communists were serving in Vietnam in various “technical, advisory and garrison capacities” with the PAVN against the French. [32] The Vietnamese Army now was a lethal force well equipped with small arms, machine guns, heavy 120mm mortars and 105mm howitzers, in addition to 20 and 40mm anti-aircraft guns. [33]

Decisive battle of Dien Bien Phu

By 1954 “Giap and the Chinese had built a tough, well-equipped, experienced, and dedicated army-a tool awaiting a great task and a master craftsman.” [34] The great task would be the decisive battle of Dien Bien Phu in western Vietnam near Laos, a battle that would end the First Vietnam War and the French presence in Indochina. Evidence suggests that the Vietnamese leadership did not see the opportunity provided by the French reoccupation of the valley until Chinese advisors alerted the Vietnamese, who initially wanted to move through Laos to invade South Vietnam, until convinced otherwise by General Wei Guoqing. [35] Additionally the CMAG would provide the Viet Mihn with a copy of the Navarre Plan, outlining French goals and objectives by the new French Commander in Vietnam.

With the signing of the Korean Armistice in July 1953 China could and would shift additional resources to Vietnam. Specific support provided for the Dien Bien Phu campaign would include planning, logistics, engineering advisors, trucks, rocket and 75mm recoilless rifle battalions, and Soviet Katyusha Rocket Launchers or “Stalin Organs.” A combined headquarters was established as the Dien Bien Phu Campaign Command with General Giap as Commander in Chief with Chinese General Wei Guoqing as General Advisor. [36]

Giap wrote years after the battle that “I felt there needed to be a meeting with the head of the team of friendly military experts who was also present. Generally speaking, relationships between us and friendly military experts ever since the Border Campaign had been excellent. Our friends had given us the benefit of their invaluable experience drawn from the revolutionary war in China and the anti-US war in Korea.” [37] It is interesting that in his account of the battle Giap makes no mention of Chinese material support or advice and planning assistance provided throughout this decisive last battle of the First Vietnam War. The Chinese advisors, such as General Wei Guoqing, are not identified or given any credit by Giap. Perhaps this is understandable given that one of the Chinese advisors would write later that “The greatest shortcoming of the Vietnamese Communists was their fear of letting other people know their weaknesses. They lacked Bolshevist self-criticism.” [38] The siege of Dien Bien Phu was to last 8 weeks with China providing 8,286 tons of supplies, including 4,620 tons of petroleum, 1,360 tons of ammunition, 46 tons of weapons and 1,700 tons of rice from supply depots 600 miles away. [39]

Chinese advisors would be involved at all levels during the battle including digging in the all important Vietnamese artillery into shellproof dugouts, experience learned the hard way in the hills of Korea. [40] In effect the battle of Dien Bien Phu would be planned and assisted by Chinese advisors and fought with Chinese trained, equipped, supplied, transported and fed PAVN troops in a military soup to nuts manner. This support is rarely mentioned as a contributing factor to the Vietnamese victory in 1954 but should be acknowledged in analyzing the battle.

Post-war support, 1955-63

In 1954, with the ending of the First Vietnam War, and the Big Power Geneva conference, Vietnam would be split into two nations, North and South Vietnam. In the north Ho and the party’s attention would be focused; at least for several years, on consolidating power and economic development. The inevitable Communist collectivization and tribunals began with confiscations, arrests, localized uprisings and the execution of 15,000 Vietnamese before order could be restored by the PAVN. [41] The CMAG returns to China in September of 1955 having accomplished its mission, quite possibly one of the most successful advisory missions ever. [42]

China would continue; however, to provide substantial levels of military aid for North Vietnam to the tune of $106 million from 1955 to 1963, effectively giving the North the resources needed to begin the insurgency in the South. [43] Thus, the North Vietnamese would form the National Liberation Front, NLF, in December of 1960 and the People’s Liberation Armed Forces, PLAF, the following year in 1961. Both the NLF and PLAF would be more commonly referred to as the Viet Cong, or Vietnamese Communists. [44]

A campaign of terror and assassination against the South Vietnamese government would soon begin as thousands of officials would be killed or kidnapped by Viet Cong insurgents. [45] The United States would not sit idly by during this period but began an ambitious program of military aid to the fragile government of South Vietnam. The stage was set, for a second war in Vietnam which would be, once again, fought largely with Chinese military aid.
 
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you mean you didnt request China to fight for you or you mean China didnt fight for you at all? and it's ok you threw all your loyalty to your Russian master comrades and where are they now??where are those your loyal Communist bloc now??who betrayed Communist bloc?
We never request any PLA soldiers to fight in the battle field for VN. we only request CHinese to build something like underground base , bridge, factory .v.v.that's all.

And Russia is USSR now, we still got many secret military tech , got weapon on credit from Russia , got warm friendship with her , Nothing change .But your Master -Uncle Sam doesn't need a puppy like you any more ,he hates you , and wanna swallow you like Lybia too. You're so lonely now :P
 
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1. Show me the envidence that we request your PLA to fight in the battle .If you don't have, so you're just another Lying Chinese here.

2. We requestede your help simply bcz you're communist country , if you're not, we already helped USSR to destroy CHina by Nuke warhead .And who broke the relationship first ??it's CHina, you took advantage of VN war to robed our islands, kill our people in 1974, betrayed Communist bloc and become US's puppy , barking and biting communist bloc for him after that.

i suggest you go read this poor viet

Understandably enough Ho and the Viet Minh wasted no time in sending representatives northward to ask for support and assistance from the new communist government. Diplomatic recognition would be granted to the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV) in January of 1950 by the PRC, the first nation to do so, followed soon by Stalin and the USSR also granting recognition. [18] Stalin, as the senior member of the communist firm, had informed Mao during meetings in Moscow soon afterwards that providing support and assistance to the Vietnamese struggle was a responsibility, and financial obligation, of the Chinese and the PRC. [19] This would not be an obligation that the Chairman would shirk from, far from it, he would honor Stalin's wishes and support the Vietnamese communist cause for the next 25 years. Mao would see Vietnam as one of three areas of Western imperialism bordering on China that threatened the PRC, the other two areas being Taiwan and Korea. Additionally Mao sincerely believed in supporting “national liberation movements in colonial nations” and fancied himself as the champion of non-European peoples across the globe. [20]

Military History Online - Chinese Support for North Vietnam during the Vietnam War: The Decisive Edge
 
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i suggest you go read this poor viet

Understandably enough Ho and the Viet Minh wasted no time in sending representatives northward to ask for support and assistance from the new communist government. Diplomatic recognition would be granted to the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV) in January of 1950 by the PRC, the first nation to do so, followed soon by Stalin and the USSR also granting recognition. [18] Stalin, as the senior member of the communist firm, had informed Mao during meetings in Moscow soon afterwards that providing support and assistance to the Vietnamese struggle was a responsibility, and financial obligation, of the Chinese and the PRC. [19] This would not be an obligation that the Chairman would shirk from, far from it, he would honor Stalin's wishes and support the Vietnamese communist cause for the next 25 years. Mao would see Vietnam as one of three areas of Western imperialism bordering on China that threatened the PRC, the other two areas being Taiwan and Korea. Additionally Mao sincerely believed in supporting “national liberation movements in colonial nations” and fancied himself as the champion of non-European peoples across the globe. [20]

Military History Online - Chinese Support for North Vietnam during the Vietnam War: The Decisive Edge
So , did HCM request PLA soldiers to fight in VN battle field ??or he thought PLA is too weak to help VN in battle field against French and US.
beijingwalker said:
Chinese Military Advisory Group
see, HCM requested only Chinese Military Advisors, and they got well protected , they didn't have to fight and maybe No advisor died too
 
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Chinese Support for North Vietnam during the Vietnam War: The Decisive Edge
by Bob Seals

“Best turn it into a bigger war…I’m afraid you really ought to send more troops to the South…Don’t be afraid of U.S. intervention, at most it’s no worse than having another Korean War. The Chinese army is prepared, and if America takes the risk of attacking North Vietnam, the Chinese army will march in at once. Our troops want a war now.” [1]
-- Mao speaking to the North Vietnamese in 1964


So why did the powerful modern nations of France and the United States lose two wars in Vietnam to a third rate military power like North Vietnam? This is the logical question that many historians have asked and attempted to answer since the Second Vietnam War ended in April 1975 with the fall of Saigon to North Vietnamese tanks. Some historians have stressed the support of the Communist party and its leadership, others point to the support of the Vietnamese people, and still other historians explain the North Vietnamese victory as an effect of the post-colonial nationalism wave that swept through Asia after the Second World War. However, few historians, with the possible exception of Qiang Zhai, among others, attribute the victory of the Vietnamese Communists in both Vietnam Wars to the considerable support provided by the communist colossus of the north, the People’s Republic of China. [2] This Chinese military support, to include equipment, advisors and planning assistance, provided from 1949-1975, would prove in both the First and Second Indochina Wars to be decisive. This substantial military support would give the People‘s Army of Vietnam an edge to resist Western forces and eventually subjugate the Republic of South Vietnam. This support, for various reasons, has never really been acknowledged by most popular histories of the conflict. This is perhaps due to the fact that such acknowledgement of the massive Chinese military support provided challenges many cherished myths of Vietnamese Communist military brilliance and the “heroic struggle” against overwhelming western imperialists. Two recent histories bear this out. Case in point A Military History of China, edited by David A. Graff makes no mention of Chinese support for Vietnam while Bruce A. Elleman’s Modern Chinese Warfare, 1795-1989, dismisses Chinese support in a mere two sentences. [3] However, unless this decisive Chinese support is properly understood by students of both Vietnam wars the answer to the question of why North Vietnam won will remain incomplete and misunderstood. This paper will attempt to outline the Chinese communist support in both wars and explain exactly why this support was so decisive.

Chinese Military Advisory Group

After this request by Ho, the PRC in April of 1950 would begin forming the Chinese Military Advisory Group (CMAG) in order to provide military assistance to the Vietnamese forces fighting the French. General Wei Guoqing would lead the CMAG to North Vietnam, along with Senior General Chen Geng, the “scholar general,” and the PRC ambassador. The Second, Third and Fourth PLA field armies were directed to select experienced officers for service in Vietnam. Some 281 officers were selected with many having command experience. [24]

In June, two days after the start of the Korean War, as the powerful North Korean Army crossed the 38th parallel, the Chairman spoke with his military advisors enroute to Vietnam, “It is President Ho chi Minh who has asked me for [your assistance], Who would have thought our revolution would succeed first? We should help them. It is called internationalism. You will help them to win the battles after you get to Vietnam.” [25] The advisors of the CMAG would do exactly that as the impact of these Chinese advisors and new weapons for the PAVN would soon be apparent in the war. Standard Chinese Maoist doctrine for revolutionary wars would be stressed and advisors were informed to avoid the “mentality of big-state chauvinism and not to display contempt for the Vietnamese.” [26] By 1950 the French had almost completely lost control of the border region with China with isolation garrisons in Cao Bang and Langson struggling to maintain a presence.

The border region would be the first test of the new Chinese trained and equipped PAVN forces. General Chen Geng wrote in a report that “Some Vietnamese crack units are in high morale after receiving training and equipment in Yunnan and Guangxi, but Vietnamese cadres above the battalion level lack command experience in actual combat.” [27] This was an accurate statement concerning the PAVN but it was one problem about to be corrected.

The CMAG would provide planning guidance, among other things, for the upcoming Border Campaigns of 1950. This campaign would begin in September with garrison after garrison falling to the Viet Minh in the north with tremendous losses for the isolated French garrisons near the Sino-Vietnamese border. Outnumbered 8 to 1 by the Vietnamese, the French would lose immense amounts of men to include 6,000 of 10,000 men in the north, and supplies to include 13 artillery pieces, 125 mortars and 450 trucks, in what some have described as the greatest defeat in French colonial history since the French and Indian War in North America. [28]

Within 48 hours after these successful assaults on those isolated French outposts in the north, Chinese General Chen would hold what we would call today an after action review. Chen would brief Giap and other high ranking officers for four hours on the shortcomings of the Vietnamese Army. These short comings according to Chen would include not following the order for battle and attacking late, commanders not leading assaults from the front, poor communications, and cadres making false reports to superiors.[29] One wonders how such criticism was received but such reviews are vital for an army’s subsequent growth and improvement. To General Giap “The victory shows Mao’s military thought was very applicable to Vietnam.” [30]

In addition to the training and planning guidance by the CMAG the logistical support from China began to increase steadily. The support provided was only 10-20 tons a month in 1951, increasing to 250 tons a month in 1952, further increasing to 600 tons a month in 1953 and 1,500 to 4,000 tons monthly during the last year of the war in 1954. [31] Additionally the Chinese transportation network to include roads and railways leading from China to Vietnam was improved also with some 1,000 trucks provided to the PAVN. This military aid provided by China enabled the PAVN to expand into a well armed and trained conventional force capable of defeating the French Army in large scale offensive operations. From a force in 1950 of 3 divisions the PAVN would expand two years later into a force of 7 divisions. All in all the Chinese military aid would arm a total of over 7 PAVN divisions. All this military support would not go unnoticed by the west, with the CIA, by March 1952, estimating that some 15,000 Chinese Communists were serving in Vietnam in various “technical, advisory and garrison capacities” with the PAVN against the French. [32] The Vietnamese Army now was a lethal force well equipped with small arms, machine guns, heavy 120mm mortars and 105mm howitzers, in addition to 20 and 40mm anti-aircraft guns. [33]


Decisive battle of Dien Bien Phu

By 1954 “Giap and the Chinese had built a tough, well-equipped, experienced, and dedicated army-a tool awaiting a great task and a master craftsman.” [34] The great task would be the decisive battle of Dien Bien Phu in western Vietnam near Laos, a battle that would end the First Vietnam War and the French presence in Indochina. Evidence suggests that the Vietnamese leadership did not see the opportunity provided by the French reoccupation of the valley until Chinese advisors alerted the Vietnamese, who initially wanted to move through Laos to invade South Vietnam, until convinced otherwise by General Wei Guoqing. [35] Additionally the CMAG would provide the Viet Mihn with a copy of the Navarre Plan, outlining French goals and objectives by the new French Commander in Vietnam.

With the signing of the Korean Armistice in July 1953 China could and would shift additional resources to Vietnam. Specific support provided for the Dien Bien Phu campaign would include planning, logistics, engineering advisors, trucks, rocket and 75mm recoilless rifle battalions, and Soviet Katyusha Rocket Launchers or “Stalin Organs.” A combined headquarters was established as the Dien Bien Phu Campaign Command with General Giap as Commander in Chief with Chinese General Wei Guoqing as General Advisor. [36]

Giap wrote years after the battle that “I felt there needed to be a meeting with the head of the team of friendly military experts who was also present. Generally speaking, relationships between us and friendly military experts ever since the Border Campaign had been excellent. Our friends had given us the benefit of their invaluable experience drawn from the revolutionary war in China and the anti-US war in Korea.” [37] It is interesting that in his account of the battle Giap makes no mention of Chinese material support or advice and planning assistance provided throughout this decisive last battle of the First Vietnam War. The Chinese advisors, such as General Wei Guoqing, are not identified or given any credit by Giap. Perhaps this is understandable given that one of the Chinese advisors would write later that “The greatest shortcoming of the Vietnamese Communists was their fear of letting other people know their weaknesses. They lacked Bolshevist self-criticism.” [38] The siege of Dien Bien Phu was to last 8 weeks with China providing 8,286 tons of supplies, including 4,620 tons of petroleum, 1,360 tons of ammunition, 46 tons of weapons and 1,700 tons of rice from supply depots 600 miles away. [39]

Chinese advisors would be involved at all levels during the battle including digging in the all important Vietnamese artillery into shellproof dugouts, experience learned the hard way in the hills of Korea. [40] In effect the battle of Dien Bien Phu would be planned and assisted by Chinese advisors and fought with Chinese trained, equipped, supplied, transported and fed PAVN troops in a military soup to nuts manner. This support is rarely mentioned as a contributing factor to the Vietnamese victory in 1954 but should be acknowledged in analyzing the battle.

Support requested and provided

The most immediate need was for anti-aircraft artillery, units to counter the overwhelming American air power over North Vietnam. Ho would request Chinese AAA units during a meeting with Mao in May of 1965 and PLA forces would begin flowing into North Vietnam in July of 1965 to help defend the capital of Hanoi and the transportation network to include railroad lines and bridges.[50] This movement of troops from China was not lost on the U.S. as reported in a Top Secret CIA Special Report which identified seven major PLA units in North Vietnam to include the 67th AAA Division, and an estimated 25,000 to 45,000 Chinese combat troops total. [51] Recent Chinese sources indicate that this PLA AAA Division did indeed operate in the western area of North Vietnam. [52] In addition to AAA forces the PLA also provided missiles, artillery and logistics, railroad, engineer and mine sweeping forces. These forces would not only man AAA sites but would also build and repair Vietnamese infrastructure damaged or destroyed by U.S. airstrikes. [53] Such units would have quite a bit of repair work to do given that there would be more than a million tons of bombs dropped by U.S. aircraft upon North Vietnam from 1965 to 1972. [54] The Second Vietnam War would drag on for years as a sort of operational stalemate existed in the skies over North Vietnam. The U.S. could and did bomb the North at will, but the sheer numbers of Chinese forces, to include a total of 16 AAA divisions serving with a peak strength of 170,000 troops attained in 1967, would ensure that a high price would be paid by U.S. pilots with targets often rapidly rebuilt after destruction. [55] Chinese engineering and logistics units would perform impressive feats of construction throughout their stay in North Vietnam effectively keeping the transportation network functioning.

The U.S. Air Campaign over North Vietnam would thus be somewhat of a lost cause, not significantly hurting the communist North enough for Ho and the senior leadership to contemplate ending the insurgency in South Vietnam. Chinese troops in North Vietnam would eventually withdraw, for the most part, by 1970 as the Sino-Vietnamese relationship began to sour over the Paris Peace Talks, and the USSR, among other things. In addition to the AAA umbrella over the North, China would also provide the sinews of modern war that would enable the North Vietnamese Army to undertake modern, large scale offensive operations against South Vietnam in both 1972 and 1975. Chinese trucks, tanks, Surface to air missiles, MIG jet aircraft, 130mm artillery pieces, 130mm mortars, and shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles, were all moved south. The PAVN had enough first class material to launch a 20 division mechanized Easter Offensive in 1972 into South Vietnam, more divisions than ever commanded by General Patton in Europe during World War II, as one American Officer would point out. [56] The North Vietnamese would pay a terrible price for this gamble, thanks to U.S. airpower and advisors on the ground, losing an estimated 450 tanks and over 100,000 troops killed in action during the 1972 offensive. [57] China would, again, make up for much of the PAVN equipment lost, after the Paris Peace Treaty was signed, in 1973 and 1974, enabling the North Vietnamese to reconstitute units for another offensive in 1975. U.S. forces would not be present this time to help its South Vietnamese allies as 18 well trained and equipped PAVN divisions rolled to Saigon in April of 1975, effectively ending the Second Vietnam War. [58] Both Vietnam Wars, from 1946-1975, ended in victory for North Vietnam against the west, but without the massive amounts of military aid provided by the PRC, most likely the outcome would have been different. As with all what-if’s of history we shall never know.

For more info
Military History Online - Chinese Support for North Vietnam during the Vietnam War: The Decisive Edge
 
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