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China’s Bizarre Claims On The South China Sea.

So , did HCM request PLA soldiers to fight in VN battle field ??or he thought PLA is too weak to help VN in battle field against French and US.
see, HCM requested only Chinese Military Advisors, and they got well protected , they didn't have to fight and maybe No advisor died too

Lol if there were no request or approval by your government the troop we send there will be called an invading troops you got it now fool????????????
 
Second Indochina War, 1964-75

The catalyst for the Second Vietnam War would be the controversial Gulf of Tonkin incident in August of 1964 between the U.S. Navy and North Vietnamese torpedo boats in the China Sea. [46] Perhaps convinced by President Johnson’s own words that election year that he would not expand the limited war in Vietnam by bombing the North or “committing a good many American boys to fighting a war that I think ought to be fought by the boys of Asia,” the North continued its attacks. Now with U.S. aircraft striking targets in North Vietnam the liberation war paradigm changed. The incident greatly alarmed both the Vietnamese and Chinese Communist leadership and caused both to move closer together in responding to increased U.S. military actions in Southeast Asia. China took immediate steps to move forces south towards the border with Vietnam and sent MIG jet aircraft to Hanoi to bolster the DRV’s defensives. Perhaps due to several factors, to include possible concern over Chinese intervention, the United States would gradually adopt a strategy of attempting to limit the war in Vietnam, or gradualism, not applying the maximum force possible towards defeating an enemy on the battlefield. [47] To the north Chairman Mao remained concerned about the U.S., in his opinion “the most ferocious enemy of the people of the world.” [48] Thus, when senior North Vietnamese leaders, to include General Giap, formally requested Chinese military aid in April of 1965, the response would be swift and sure. The PRC President would tell the Vietnamese that the Chinese people and party were obligated to support the North and therefore “…we will do our best to provide you with whatever you need and whatever we have.” [49]

Support requested and provided

The most immediate need was for anti-aircraft artillery, units to counter the overwhelming American air power over North Vietnam. Ho would request Chinese AAA units during a meeting with Mao in May of 1965 and PLA forces would begin flowing into North Vietnam in July of 1965 to help defend the capital of Hanoi and the transportation network to include railroad lines and bridges.[50] This movement of troops from China was not lost on the U.S. as reported in a Top Secret CIA Special Report which identified seven major PLA units in North Vietnam to include the 67th AAA Division, and an estimated 25,000 to 45,000 Chinese combat troops total. [51] Recent Chinese sources indicate that this PLA AAA Division did indeed operate in the western area of North Vietnam. [52] In addition to AAA forces the PLA also provided missiles, artillery and logistics, railroad, engineer and mine sweeping forces. These forces would not only man AAA sites but would also build and repair Vietnamese infrastructure damaged or destroyed by U.S. airstrikes. [53] Such units would have quite a bit of repair work to do given that there would be more than a million tons of bombs dropped by U.S. aircraft upon North Vietnam from 1965 to 1972. [54] The Second Vietnam War would drag on for years as a sort of operational stalemate existed in the skies over North Vietnam. The U.S. could and did bomb the North at will, but the sheer numbers of Chinese forces, to include a total of 16 AAA divisions serving with a peak strength of 170,000 troops attained in 1967, would ensure that a high price would be paid by U.S. pilots with targets often rapidly rebuilt after destruction. [55] Chinese engineering and logistics units would perform impressive feats of construction throughout their stay in North Vietnam effectively keeping the transportation network functioning.

The U.S. Air Campaign over North Vietnam would thus be somewhat of a lost cause, not significantly hurting the communist North enough for Ho and the senior leadership to contemplate ending the insurgency in South Vietnam. Chinese troops in North Vietnam would eventually withdraw, for the most part, by 1970 as the Sino-Vietnamese relationship began to sour over the Paris Peace Talks, and the USSR, among other things. In addition to the AAA umbrella over the North, China would also provide the sinews of modern war that would enable the North Vietnamese Army to undertake modern, large scale offensive operations against South Vietnam in both 1972 and 1975. Chinese trucks, tanks, Surface to air missiles, MIG jet aircraft, 130mm artillery pieces, 130mm mortars, and shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles, were all moved south. The PAVN had enough first class material to launch a 20 division mechanized Easter Offensive in 1972 into South Vietnam, more divisions than ever commanded by General Patton in Europe during World War II, as one American Officer would point out. [56] The North Vietnamese would pay a terrible price for this gamble, thanks to U.S. airpower and advisors on the ground, losing an estimated 450 tanks and over 100,000 troops killed in action during the 1972 offensive. [57] China would, again, make up for much of the PAVN equipment lost, after the Paris Peace Treaty was signed, in 1973 and 1974, enabling the North Vietnamese to reconstitute units for another offensive in 1975. U.S. forces would not be present this time to help its South Vietnamese allies as 18 well trained and equipped PAVN divisions rolled to Saigon in April of 1975, effectively ending the Second Vietnam War. [58] Both Vietnam Wars, from 1946-1975, ended in victory for North Vietnam against the west, but without the massive amounts of military aid provided by the PRC, most likely the outcome would have been different. As with all what-if’s of history we shall never know.

Analysis of support

So how does one analyze the considerable military support provided by the PRC for the DRV during the 25 year period from 1950-1975, encompassing both the First and Second Vietnam Wars? Was the military aid provided, to include equipment, advisors and planning assistance, decisive in both conflicts or would the North Vietnamese have prevailed without this Chinese military support? In retrospect it seems clear that the Chinese military support for the DRV would be crucial. This Chinese support would be, in many respects, timely, appropriate and helpful without doing the job that the North Vietnamese needed to do themselves; that is, fight and win on the ground in South Vietnam. The PRC would not conduct an intervention on the scale that it conducted in Korea, avoiding the international perception of acting in the traditional China/tributary state relationship with Vietnam, all the while providing the tools and assistance required to “tip the scales” in both conflicts against the West. The People’s Republic would be, in effect, the world’s largest unsinkable aircraft carrier and army base, a strategic advantage that Western nations thousands of miles removed from the fighting could not hope to match.

As a biographer of Chairman Mao would remark “It was having China as a secure rear and supply depot that made it possible for the Vietnamese to fight for 25 years and beat first the French and then the Americans.” [60]

The numbers would be impressive enough, of the military equipment and supplies provided by China. According to Qiang Zhai, during the period 1950-54, the PRC would provide enough weapons, 116,000 small arms and 4630 artillery pieces, to equip some 5 infantry divisions, one heavy engineering and artillery division, one direct fire anti-aircraft artillery regiment and one guards regiment. [61] This infusion of equipment for almost seven divisions worth of troops could not, and would not, be matched by the French. As one U.S. military officer would comment years later “The French politicians continued their irresolute, incoherent, and penny-pinching support of military operations in Indochina, while demanding ‘decisive solutions.’” [62] The numbers would be even more impressive in the Second Vietnam War. Chinese support provided would increase by a factor of ten with arms and equipment from uniforms to tanks to small arms on a yearly basis greater than the entire military aid provided in the early 1950’s against the French. [63] Additionally the Chinese anti-aircraft artillery troops, peaking at a total of 17 divisions and 150,000 men in 1967, would claim credit for downing 1,707 U.S. aircraft over North Vietnam. [64] These Chinese combat troops who were not to be used south of the 21st parallel in North Vietnam; however, the presence of these units secured the North’s rear, turning the nation into the most heavily defended area in the world, and allowing the DRV to use resources in South Vietnam and elsewhere that would have been devoted to homeland defense. [65] In effect the U.S. would not be able to open a second front over the skies of North Vietnam, as it had been able to so successfully over Germany in the Second World War, due to these Chinese divisions.

But the mere presence of China to the north would also be a constant “sword of Damocles” hanging over the heads of Western and South Vietnamese nations. This nearness would also ensure that the ever present possibility of massive, full scale Chinese intervention would always be a factor that had to be considered by Western political and military leaders. Any plans for taking the fight to the North Vietnamese enemy on his home field by going north could not be seriously considered given the clear warnings by the PRC that it would intervene with massive force. The Chinese took great pains to communicate this willingness to fight on behalf of North Vietnam, if seriously threatened, to the United States, communicating warnings via various channels to include ambassadorial talks in Poland, third-party leaders such as the Pakistani and Tanzania Presidents and the British ambassador in Beijing. [66] In some respects this pledge of assistance was just as valuable as the tanks, trucks and guns provided by the PRC.

Conclusion

“Why have the Americans not made a fuss about the fact that more than 100,000 Chinese troops help you building the railways, roads and airports although they knew about it?” [67]
- - Chairman Mao to Vietnamese Premier Dong, 1970

In conclusion, as we can see from the considerable historical material outlined above, the military support provided by the People’s Republic of China, to include advisors, equipment and combat troops, was the decisive factor for the Communist Democratic Republic of Vietnam prevailing during 1949-1975 in both the First and Second Vietnam Wars. The small arms, mortars, ammunition, uniforms, tanks, artillery, radars, anti-aircraft guns, jet aircraft, trucks, and naval vessels were critical in the North Vietnamese struggle. However, what was even more critical and normally not acknowledged in the laundry list of war material is the psychological and strategic advantage provided by Communist China’s pledge to intervene in the advent of a United States invasion of North Vietnam, and communicating that pledge to the U.S. This strategic advantage in effect cannot be overstated.

As General Westmoreland’s former G-2, or Intelligence Officer would write after the Vietnam Wars “With a friendly China located adjacent to North Vietnam, there would have been little chance for a Vietnamese victory against the French, and later against the Americans and South Vietnamese.” [68] It is rather ironic that most professional historians tend to downplay or ignore China’s decisive role in North Vietnam’s victory while the military and intelligence communities, U.S. at least, are much more willing to acknowledge this fact. Perhaps this is understandable since if one acknowledges the role played by China it calls into question such Vietnam myths as the “poorly armed guerrilla” and the “military genius” of Giap, among other issues. Historians such as Xiaoming Zhang and Qiang Zhai are challenging the paradigm of accepted Vietnam history and in doing so are performing a great service.

“Thus the highest realization of warfare is to attack the enemy plans;” according to the learned military theorist Sun-Tzu in the Art of War. [69] In respects this is exactly what the North Vietnamese, and Chinese did in both Vietnam Wars: they successfully attacked the Western powers war plans. The considerable support for the DRV by the PRC, to include a promise to intervene with massive numbers of troops in the event of an invasion of North Vietnam, effectively eliminated this course of action, and perhaps others, as potential war winning options for the West. Thus, with the support of China, on a strategic level of war the DRV was able to remain upon the offensive throughout the war, maintaining the initiative and finally achieving victory as Saigon fell in April of 1975.
 
US is China's master?biggest joke I every heard.China beat US twice in the last 60 years,their secterary of the state and president worked very hard to try to contact China,and begged Pakistan and Poland to help and BOTH of them flew to China to beg for the end of animosity,we didnt send anyone to US.you got the whole thing all wrong.US is always on Taiwan ,Japan and SKorea side,US doesnt hate us more as it did 20 years ago,you really should study some history.
 
let me see, the name of Ocean is Indian Ocean

First name is Indian (means belonging to India)

Therefore,Indian Ocean belongs to India... lets start putting "visitors tax " on anyone out of Karachi!!!!


what do you mean? out of karachi??
 
Lol if there were no request or approval by your government the troop we send there will be called an invading troops you got it now fool????????????
You completely Idiot, did you see any PLA troop in VN ??or they're just Chinese advisors and workers ??who need your weak and braveless PLA ??

Stop lying about PLA died in VN battle field , No PLA died there.
Beijingwalker said:
As General Westmoreland’s former G-2, or Intelligence Officer would write after the Vietnam Wars “With a friendly China located adjacent to North Vietnam, there would have been little chance for a Vietnamese victory against the French, and later against the Americans and South Vietnamese.”
A Loser always try to find a good reason for his lost , we used Scala weapon - the more powerful weapon than Nuke before US knew how to make a same kind . and when did we get this weapon ?/from China ??

Idiot loser general .:no:
 
You completely Idiot, did you see any PLA troop in VN ??or they're just Chinese advisors and workers ??who need your weak and braveless PLA ??

Stop lying about PLA died in VN battle field , No PLA died there.

A Loser always try to find a good reason for his lost , we used Scala weapon - the more powerful weapon than Nuke before US knew how to make a same kind . and when did we get this weapon ?/from China ??

Idiot loser general .:no:

If China had not helped you, you would still be in uncle sam's belly!
 

If China had not helped you, you would still be in uncle sam's belly!

It's better when Viet has been kicked both US and China run away from Vietnam.

---------- Post added at 09:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 AM ----------

viets were given weapons by china,i watched a documentary

Soviet Union given more than China.
 
[/COLOR]

Soviet Union given more than China.[/QUOTE]

a beggar's mentality.
 

If China had not helped you, you would still be in uncle sam's belly!

Hey Bangladeshi if India had not helped you , you would still have been toyed around by the West Pakistani generals.

How about that ?

we used Scala weapon - the more powerful weapon than Nuke before US knew how to make a same kind .

What is that , Scala weapon ?
 
viets were given weapons by china,i watched a documentary
But it's just normal weapons like AK-47 , Tank -that CHina can manufacture with USSR help , and it's not enough for defeating Mighty US.

Without Communist bloc help , CHina would speak Japanese now . CHina must help VN to return Communist favor too.
 
Hey Bangladeshi if India had not helped you , you would still have been toyed around by the West Pakistani generals.

How about that ?

In that case Bangladesh should start behaving like Vietnam.
;)
 
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